Hot Dog Vending...Not Recession-proof After All

[GRG55]

Can the news get any worse than this?

Understandable that folks are "eating out" less than they were before...but who could have expected the Spam sandwich would kill the dog cart in the Big Apple...:eek:

Hot dog carts hurt by public's efforts to save

It’s a dog-eat-dog world for Brooklyn’s top hot dog sellers these days.

The sinking economy has taken a big bite out of the borough’s top-grossing hot dog carts — which are now struggling to lure enough customers to pay their sky-high rents.


Vendor Timothaos Ayad, who pays the borough’s top-dog price of $48,000 a year in rent to the city to set up his cart outside Brooklyn Supreme Court, said business is down nearly 50% since August...

...Ayad, who peddles $1.75 hot dogs and $5 gyros to the throngs of court workers, jurors and others passing through the bustling downtown Brooklyn spot, said he has been hurt by the fact that so many people now bring their lunches from home as a way to save money.

“In the morning, I see everybody coming by with their bag of lunch,” he said, adding he has decided to throw in the towel and not bid on the spot when it is up again at the end of the year...

...“It’s hurting us very much,” said Elhashash, 32, whose business last year was already down 30% from the year before.

“The same customer who used to come to me and spend $10 on two hot dogs and two drinks and an ice cream, now they get one ice cream and they split it.”...

[santafe2]

Re: Hot Dog Vending...Not Recession-proof After All

Can the news get any worse than this?

Vendor Timothaos Ayad, who pays the borough’s top-dog price of $48,000 a year in rent to the city to set up his cart outside Brooklyn Supreme Court, said business is down nearly 50% since August...

$48,000, that's a lot of hot dogs - over $1,000 a sq. ft. This isn't a hot dog problem, this is a rent problem and it's just another way cities and counties are going to lose revenue.

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/...s_much_as.html

[Verrocchio]

Re: Hot Dog Vending...Not Recession-proof After All

Hmm, this baby goes for $2,499. That's a lotta dawgs at a buck each (not counting the vig for the concession!

[LargoWinch]

Re: Hot Dog Vending...Not Recession-proof After All

Can the news get any worse than this?

Actually yes, it get worse.

When you are down to calculate the price of food per calories, you know that is bad.

I mean, we are not talking about taste, not talking about how healthy the stuff is or not even even talking about convenience, no, we are talking about survival:

http://finance.yahoo.com/family-home...jmJd7UokJO7sMF

[GRG55]

Re: Hot Dog Vending...Not Recession-proof After All

$48,000, that's a lot of hot dogs - over $1,000 a sq. ft. This isn't a hot dog problem, this is a rent problem and it's just another way cities and counties are going to lose revenue.

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/...s_much_as.html

Ya, I noticed that and figured that at $5.00 a dog, assuming 50% margin, that means the first 100 hot dogs he sells each work day goes to the city. Given there's probably about a 2 hour window each day that the majority of sales are made [say 11:45 to 1:45] that means he has to push out a hot dog almost once a minute during that interval, every Monday to Friday, just to pay the rent...

Wonder what he thinks about TARP, TALF, and the AIG bonuses...

[Andreuccio]

Re: Hot Dog Vending...Not Recession-proof After All

Ya, I noticed that and figured that at $5.00 a dog, assuming 50% margin, that means the first 100 hot dogs he sells each work day goes to the city. Given there's probably about a 2 hour window each day that the majority of sales are made [say 11:45 to 1:45] that means he has to push out a hot dog almost once a minute during that interval, every Monday to Friday, just to pay the rent...

Wonder what he thinks about TARP, TALF, and the AIG bonuses...

I bet his margin's much better than 50%. That same dog can probably be had for $2.50 or 3 at a stand that doesn't have the high rent overhead he has. A big chunk of the $5 was probably already due to the rent.

An econ book I read a couple of years ago had a chapter about this issue, though. The price of a cup of coffee at different shops is determined more than anything else, by the rent the land will bring. I don't remember the title off hand but I'll look it up later. Really interesting read.

[Chomsky]

Re: Hot Dog Vending...Not Recession-proof After All

I bet his margin's much better than 50%. That same dog can probably be had for $2.50 or 3 at a stand that doesn't have the high rent overhead he has. A big chunk of the $5 was probably already due to the rent.

An econ book I read a couple of years ago had a chapter about this issue, though. The price of a cup of coffee at different shops is determined more than anything else, by the rent the land will bring. I don't remember the title off hand but I'll look it up later. Really interesting read.

Er, reading comprehension?

Ayad, who peddles $1.75 hot dogs and $5 gyros to the throngs of court workers, jurors and others passing through the bustling downtown Brooklyn spot

As a resident of Brooklyn, I'm guessing the majority of his business is hot dogs, though the gyros are probably tastier and well worth the added tariff.

[GRG55]

Re: Hot Dog Vending...Not Recession-proof After All

Er, reading comprehension?...

Er, yes and no...

This is the part that caused me to assume $5.00 a hot dog...

“The same customer who used to come to me and spend $10 on two hot dogs..."

But going back and paying a bit more attention the full sentence reads...

“The same customer who used to come to me and spend $10 on two hot dogs and two drinks and an ice cream, now they get one ice cream and they split it.”

So guilty as charged...

Which means that the vendor has to sell a hell of a lot of hot dogs to make that rent payment.

So the previous [rhetorical] question still stands...Wonder what he thinks of TARP, TALF and those AIG bonuses. ;)

[Chomsky]

Re: Hot Dog Vending...Not Recession-proof After All

So the previous [rhetorical] question still stands...Wonder what he thinks of TARP, TALF and those AIG bonuses. ;)

Inasmuch as said pushcart vendor depends upon a steady flow of customers to and from the courts (the U.S. Federal Second Circuit Court of Appeals is there, among others -- major court center), and therefore said vendor depends upon a bull market in litigation to succeed; and inasmuch TARP, TALF, AIG bonuses, etc., all stand to produce unending amounts of litigation over the next decade (viz. the Paulson-Ken Lewis-BofA-shareholder fraud scandal), said vendor likely supports the government bailout without without reservation.

[GRG55]

Re: Hot Dog Vending...Not Recession-proof After All

Inasmuch as said pushcart vendor depends upon a steady flow of customers to and from the courts (the U.S. Federal Second Circuit Court of Appeals is there, among others -- major court center), and therefore said vendor depends upon a bull market in litigation to succeed; and inasmuch TARP, TALF, AIG bonuses, etc., all stand to produce unending amounts of litigation over the next decade (viz. the Paulson-Ken Lewis-BofA-shareholder fraud scandal), said vendor likely supports the government bailout without without reservation.

Well Obama did say the money is supposed to create jobs...

[Rajiv]

Re: Hot Dog Vending...Not Recession-proof After All

The economics of the whole transaction leads me to believe that this was not a hot dog stand, but rather a laundromat! ;)

[Andreuccio]

Re: Hot Dog Vending...Not Recession-proof After All

Ayad, who peddles $1.75 hot dogs and $5 gyros to the throngs of court workers, jurors and others passing through the bustling downtown Brooklyn spot

Well, there's his problem then. He's selling his dogs for $1.75 when his cost is $2.50. No wonder he's having trouble. :rolleyes: Maybe he's using them as a loss leader for the gyros. :p

Er, reading comprehension?

I actually don't have a reading comprehension problem. What I have is a memory/attention problem. By the time I got to GRG's second post, I had completely forgotten the original numbers.

It slipped by me, too, because it seemed so plausible. I haven't bought hot dogs on the street for a while, but it seems to me that same dog in L.A. really does go for $2.50 or $3.00. If that's accurate, what the heck is that guy doing selling for only $1.75 in a high rent area of New York.

Hmmm. Maybe there's some way to make money arbitraging the difference in hot dog prices between New York and L.A.

[Rajiv]

Re: Hot Dog Vending...Not Recession-proof After All

See my post above