Economic Hitman's View on Iceland

[renewable]

Interesting talk about the reasons for Iceland's collapse by John Perkins. Iceland's environoment minister hosts the discussion and contributes extensively.

Brief précis: Corporates loaded up Iceland's debts in order to use IMF loans to gain ownership of Iceland's hydro, and thus Iceland's aluminium smelting capabilities. Perkins assets that one of the IMF's main aims will be to privatise the (hydro) energy companies so that Alcoa etc. can take control of the whole vertical chain.

Part 1: http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...82360829048829

Part 2: http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...50852404764371

[Part 1 lecture, Part 2 audience questions - both about 30 minutes long]

[occdude]

Re: Economic Hitman's View on Iceland

Quasi socialistic, ivory tower type professor spewing the PC status quo. This guys suggestions? Feel good about yourselves and OH get rid of the one entity that makes real money namely aluminum production because you're being exploited by greedy companies! I hope the Icelanders being broke, made this guy pay for his own airfare and accomodations.

Icelands in the predicament it's in because it wants more than it can produce. Everyone in Iceland is a poet,architect,professor type in otherwords self serving occupations that add nothing in exchange for the goods they've been recieving ON CREDIT all these years. What are the Chinese getting for cold weather clothing they trade to the Icelanders? Icelandic poetry??

The Icelanders economy is similar to our FIRE based phony economy on a more pronounced basis due to their smaller, more concentrated basis. When the bill comes due, of course they cant pay and bankruptcy is the result. But the telling part of this is after the bankruptcy, when the Icelanders cant import anymore due to their currency expressing its TRUE debased value, the only thing left of their shelves is what's valuable and that is their fish.

Sorry, I have a hard time jumping on board with this notion that "the people" have no responsibility in this dilema. If you are affected by this economy you are complicite. You have benefited in some manner and when the model implodes you will feel the pain in proportion to the amount you've benefited.

Iceland can only hope, that some "greedy business" type can figure out how to turn that otherwise barren piece of tundric rock into a productive entity so that it can sustain ruddy cheek personages that desire the "finer things in life" yet dont wont to do what it takes to produce it. And get rid of these motivational speakers masquarading as informed advisors.

[Spartacus]

Re: Economic Hitman's View on Iceland

I find reactions to Perkins more interesting than Perkins himself.

Puplava and his listeners were a good example.

There are those who insult him for daring to claim the US is engaged in such activity.

Then there are those who say such things did happen in the past, then insult Perkins for dredging up decades old stories, and deny that these things are happening now.

Then there are those that say of course it has happened and is happening now and how can anyone fault the US for doing what the US has to do, ethical or not, to maintain its edge, and they insult Perkins for being moralistic and interfering with US interests.

Everyone does seem to agree on one thing, though ...

[metalman]

Re: Economic Hitman's View on Iceland

I find reactions to Perkins more interesting than Perkins himself.

Puplava and his listeners were a good example.

There are those who insult him for daring to claim the US is engaged in such activity.

Then there are those who say such things did happen in the past, then insult Perkins for dredging up decades old stories, and deny that these things are happening now.

Then there are those that say of course it has happened and is happening now and how can anyone fault the US for doing what the US has to do, ethical or not, to maintain its edge, and they insult Perkins for being moralistic and interfering with US interests.

Everyone does seem to agree on one thing, though ...

then there are those perkins detractors who question his motives for revealing what he knows.

look.. it's hudson and perkins together on iceland tv...

[xela]

Re: Economic Hitman's View on Iceland

thanks for all the video links

[allenjs]

Re: Economic Hitman's View on Iceland

Icelands in the predicament it's in because it wants more than it can produce. Everyone in Iceland is a poet,architect,professor type in otherwords self serving occupations that add nothing in exchange for the goods they've been recieving ON CREDIT all these years. What are the Chinese getting for cold weather clothing they trade to the Icelanders? Icelandic poetry??

I have a ton of respect for Perkins. I used to work at SAIC on many of the sorts of projects he writes about, and he is mostly being honest. I think he is naive if he thinks that the new world overlords will be nearly as nice as the U.S. has been, but he is at least being honest about how the game is played.

Speaking of Iceland exporting poetry to China, I have a funny story to relate.

I was eating breakfast in Hangzhou at Shangri-La Hotel shortly after the Sichuan earthquake, and had the misfortune to sit next to a couple from Iceland who were sitting with their Chinese tour guide. The Icelandic man and woman spent the entire breakfast lecturing their tour guide (in English) about how the Chinese government had betrayed the Chinese people, how Chinese people have crappy building standards, and how Iceland was vastly superior to China. The poor tour guide, a young lady probably just graduated from undergraduate studies, was very polite and simply allowed them to talk.

These two Norse gods continued in their extremely patronizing tone, and commenced to explain to the tour guide why democracy is so much better than communism, and why the young lady should be more passionate about trying to replace the government. The young lady was obviously very uncomfortable with this line of conversation, and tried several times to change the topic before finally succeeding.

The example stood out in my mind, because I remember thinking that this was the sort of thing I expect from Americans, but not from some tiny little island of no consequence. At the time, I knew almost nothing about Iceland. I don't think I've ever met anyone from Iceland, and only read about them in genomics studies, so I was surprised to see that they considered themselves to be so important in world affairs. And equally ignorant, to assume that they could actually have a positive impact on China's political system by lecturing some powerless young woman who was only there because they paid her to be there. I could just imagine them going home to their fireplace in Iceland and regaling their friends with the stories about how they heroically revealed the secrets of prosperity to those poor, oppressed Chinese.

Their behavior was shockingly insensitive and boorish, and I remember thinking "Who the f*ck is Iceland, to be lecturing other countries?" And I remember thinking, "How the hell did these two make enough money to be wandering the world lecturing others, when I've never heard of any businesses from Iceland?"

I took the experience as evidence that America has no monopoly on sanctimonious prigs, and that sanctimony must be an aspect of human nature rather than a side-effect of world power. But the sheer irony is multiplied when looking at the events that have transpired since then. Who would have predicted that Iceland would take center stage months later as a caricature of how a country can be mismanaged?

[bpr]

Re: Economic Hitman's View on Iceland

The example stood out in my mind, because I remember thinking that this was the sort of thing I expect from Americans, but not from some tiny little island of no consequence.

Good anecdote, thanks for sharing. The US has successfully exported ignorance and arrogance.

[nero3]

Re: Economic Hitman's View on Iceland

Iceland is on the way to recovery. The guy from Norway, their new and politically friendly central bank boss have been cutting rates from 18 to 15 % and inflation is going down. I certainly think Iceland have potential to recover, it's similar to the Nordic crisis in 1991-1992, the real steal back then was property and bank shares. The question is only what to buy now. Possibly property and bank shares.

[metalman]

Re: Economic Hitman's View on Iceland

Iceland is on the way to recovery. The guy from Norway, their new and politically friendly central bank boss have been cutting rates from 18 to 15 % and inflation is going down. I certainly think Iceland have potential to recover, it's similar to the Nordic crisis in 1991-1992, the real steal back then was property and bank shares. The question is only what to buy now. Possibly property and bank shares.

norway found oil. iceland has cod and geothermal power... tough to export.

[occdude]

Re: Economic Hitman's View on Iceland

I have a ton of respect for Perkins. I used to work at SAIC on many of the sorts of projects he writes about, and he is mostly being honest. I think he is naive if he thinks that the new world overlords will be nearly as nice as the U.S. has been, but he is at least being honest about how the game is played.

Speaking of Iceland exporting poetry to China, I have a funny story to relate.

I was eating breakfast in Hangzhou at Shangri-La Hotel shortly after the Sichuan earthquake, and had the misfortune to sit next to a couple from Iceland who were sitting with their Chinese tour guide. The Icelandic man and woman spent the entire breakfast lecturing their tour guide (in English) about how the Chinese government had betrayed the Chinese people, how Chinese people have crappy building standards, and how Iceland was vastly superior to China. The poor tour guide, a young lady probably just graduated from undergraduate studies, was very polite and simply allowed them to talk.

These two Norse gods continued in their extremely patronizing tone, and commenced to explain to the tour guide why democracy is so much better than communism, and why the young lady should be more passionate about trying to replace the government. The young lady was obviously very uncomfortable with this line of conversation, and tried several times to change the topic before finally succeeding.

The example stood out in my mind, because I remember thinking that this was the sort of thing I expect from Americans, but not from some tiny little island of no consequence. At the time, I knew almost nothing about Iceland. I don't think I've ever met anyone from Iceland, and only read about them in genomics studies, so I was surprised to see that they considered themselves to be so important in world affairs. And equally ignorant, to assume that they could actually have a positive impact on China's political system by lecturing some powerless young woman who was only there because they paid her to be there. I could just imagine them going home to their fireplace in Iceland and regaling their friends with the stories about how they heroically revealed the secrets of prosperity to those poor, oppressed Chinese.

Their behavior was shockingly insensitive and boorish, and I remember thinking "Who the f*ck is Iceland, to be lecturing other countries?" And I remember thinking, "How the hell did these two make enough money to be wandering the world lecturing others, when I've never heard of any businesses from Iceland?"

I took the experience as evidence that America has no monopoly on sanctimonious prigs, and that sanctimony must be an aspect of human nature rather than a side-effect of world power. But the sheer irony is multiplied when looking at the events that have transpired since then. Who would have predicted that Iceland would take center stage months later as a caricature of how a country can be mismanaged?

There is a school of thought which I would have to say that "educated elites" subscribe to known as progressive theory. I call it a theory because it hasn't been tried extensively yet. It seems to want to throw away all semblances of tradition (except from the perspective of a scientist studying an ant colony) without honestly exploring the evolutionary process that got us to this point in time. I say again tradition especially western tradition is maligned and characterised as being primitive.

Now these progressive Icelanders go to a traditonal country that doesn't have the sophistication that these enlightened Scandanavians do, so it's quite easy to beat up on this "third world rube". After all, they haven't studied from the greatest minds of progressive western world, they were too busy slaving away in sulphuric acid clouds to produce latte cups to be "supped" by braniacs in manicured gardens who want to run the world.

I think your story illustrates the fundamental "silliness" of progressive western thought. People in the developing world that have yet to blow up a huge distortive credit bubble are still familar with scarcity and depravity. Their main problem is that they've aligned themselves to sustain us under the false premise that the favor will be returned at a later date. My opinion is that one, we will resemble them in the very near future and two they will actually come out ahead of us and will in turn be the lecturers. As far as Perkins goes, he seemed to be trying to build up the Icelanders egos eg."lead the world out of this crisis", when I think more frankeness is called for.

[metalman]

Re: Economic Hitman's View on Iceland

There is a school of thought which I would have to say that "educated elites" subscribe to known as progressive theory. I call it a theory because it hasn't been tried extensively yet. It seems to want to throw away all semblances of tradition (except from the perspective of a scientist studying an ant colony) without honestly exploring the evolutionary process that got us to this point in time. I say again tradition especially western tradition is maligned and characterised as being primitive.

Now these progressive Icelanders go to a traditonal country that doesn't have the sophistication that these enlightened Scandanavians do, so it's quite easy to beat up on this "third world rube". After all, they haven't studied from the greatest minds of progressive western world, they were too busy slaving away in sulphuric acid clouds to produce latte cups to be "supped" by braniacs in manicured gardens who want to run the world.

I think your story illustrates the fundamental "silliness" of progressive western thought. People in the developing world that have yet to blow up a huge distortive credit bubble are still familar with scarcity and depravity. Their main problem is that they've aligned themselves to sustain us under the false premise that the favor will be returned at a later date. My opinion is that one, we will resemble them in the very near future and two they will actually come out ahead of us and will in turn be the lecturers. As far as Perkins goes, he seemed to be trying to build up the Icelanders egos eg."lead the world out of this crisis", when I think more frankeness is called for.

perkins preached to the iceland quire for a fee. hudson, too?

at least china executes its own people on purpose for crimes they were convicted for committing in a court that offers some semblance of justice.