Who Killed the Electric Car? A "MUST SEE" FILM

[Chris Coles]

Who Killed the Electric Car

The curious story of the short life of one of the fastest, most efficient production cars ever built.

It ran on electricity, produced no emissions and catapulted American technology to the forefront of the automotive industry. The lucky few who drove it never wanted to give it up. So why did General Motors crush its fleet of EV1 electric vehicles into landfill sites in the obscurity of the Arizona desert?

Chris Paine's documentary investigates the events that led to the quiet destruction of an apparently promising product.

Through interviews, ranging from enthusiastic owner Mel Gibson to ex-CIA boss R James Woolsey, the film paints a picture of an industrial culture whose aversion to change and reliance on oil may run deeper then its ability to embrace new, radical solutions.

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/w...es-1/episode-1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsJAlrYjGz8

http://www.whokilledtheelectriccar.com/


This is a two hour film that absolutely must be seen by everyone interested in why the United States has fallen behind, both financially as well as industrially. This is by far the best example of what I call a feudal mercantile economy in operation where vested interests take complete control of the companies that have created a new product and remove it from any possibility of sale. You could not find a better example of anti-competitive behaviour anywhere on the planet. Better than any B movie about life behind the Iron Curtain. Better by far than anything you might remember about the prohibition era gangsters running the economy.

If you honestly believe that this is how to run a nation that is supposed to believe it can lift itself out of the recession through the power of investment in new innovative technology, this will shame you. Will show you the truth..... Forget it. With VC's that take complete control and sell on the company to the highest bidder, all you get is this sort of utter stupidity.

Unless the United States changes direction with its equity investment policies, nothing will change.

To the VC's that sold out for the quick profit. I ask; when will you stand up and recognise that you have wider responsibilities to your nation?

To the need to ensure that new technologies are not suppressed.

That the innovators of your nation are not sold out short to vested interests.

I lay the complete blame for this farrago right at the feet of the hundred or so companies that call themselves Venture capitalists.

Shame on you, all of you.

If you really want to ensure the success of your nation, you are all of you going to have to change the way you invest and you must from now onwards invest in such a manner that the originator of the new technology is left free to carry on competing. Without the fresh competition from new technologies, you are running into deep sand and stagnation will overtake any chance of a revival of your nations fortunes.

[Rajiv]

Re: Who Killed the Electric Car? A "MUST SEE" FILM

Here is the 1'32" movie

[petertribo]

Re: Who Killed the Electric Car? A "MUST SEE" FILM

Canadian Electric Auto ZENN. ZENN is public ZNN at TSX.
I have no interest in the company.

This is being sold as an urban car with max 25MPH and 30-50 mile range:

http://www.zenncars.com/

I heard they were designing a more powerful, larger range car. One question raised is that we in North America are not able to buy cars designed for specific needs, such as simply urban use. All cars sold meet highway power and mileage standards and in many cases this is just costly overkill. All cars are not used on the highway. The use breakdown might show a very large market for a limited power and range car. My gut feeling is the Auto Oligolopoly just does not want to serve that market or get into more, for them, costly production and additonal auto lines. (This is why giving them subsidies and bailouts now is absolutely contrary to developing alternatives. Same with the Banks, we need new products and producers, not old, antiquated ones.)

The ZENN I would think might have a good urban fleet market.

[LargoWinch]

Re: Who Killed the Electric Car? A "MUST SEE" FILM

Canadian Electric Auto ZENN. ZENN is public ZNN at TSX.
I have no interest in the company.

This is being sold as an urban car with max 25MPH and 30-50 mile range:

http://www.zenncars.com/

I heard they were designing a more powerful, larger range car. One question raised is that we in North America are not able to buy cars designed for specific needs, such as simply urban use. All cars sold meet highway power and mileage standards and in many cases this is just costly overkill. All cars are not used on the highway. The use breakdown might show a very large market for a limited power and range car. My gut feeling is the Auto Oligolopoly just does not want to serve that market or get into more, for them, costly production and additonal auto lines. (This is why giving them subsidies and bailouts now is absolutely contrary to developing alternatives. Same with the Banks, we need new products and producers, not old, antiquated ones.)

The ZENN I would think might have a good urban fleet market.

The MSRP on this vehicle is $CAD17,750. That is too high even if crude oil would climb back to $150.

One can get a much better Honda Civic for MSRP $CAD16,900. Am I not even considering the used market, especially in this economic environment.

Nice work, but it will remain a novelty item for a long time at this price.

[GRG55]

Re: Who Killed the Electric Car? A "MUST SEE" FILM

Canadian Electric Auto ZENN. ZENN is public ZNN at TSX.
I have no interest in the company.

This is being sold as an urban car with max 25MPH and 30-50 mile range:

http://www.zenncars.com/

I heard they were designing a more powerful, larger range car. One question raised is that we in North America are not able to buy cars designed for specific needs, such as simply urban use. All cars sold meet highway power and mileage standards and in many cases this is just costly overkill. All cars are not used on the highway. The use breakdown might show a very large market for a limited power and range car. My gut feeling is the Auto Oligolopoly just does not want to serve that market or get into more, for them, costly production and additonal auto lines. (This is why giving them subsidies and bailouts now is absolutely contrary to developing alternatives. Same with the Banks, we need new products and producers, not old, antiquated ones.)

The ZENN I would think might have a good urban fleet market.

Your gut feel has nothing to back this statement up. High quality urban cars such as the SMART have been available in Canada for years. How many do you see on the streets? The industry cannot sell what the customer will not buy. Over time even the manufacturers of imported small cars like the Camry and Civic have gradually increased the size of both the cars and the engines that power them [the original Camry was avaible only with a 4 cyl engine, and wasn't much larger than today's Corolla]. What's that tell you about what the market wants?

All this conspiracy theory bullshit is tiresome. The auto industry has been brutally competitive for decades. Do you really think that not one single global player in this industry would take an obvious opportunity to fill a real demand? Get serious...

[Chris Coles]

Re: Who Killed the Electric Car? A "MUST SEE" FILM

Your gut feel has nothing to back this statement up. High quality urban cars such as the SMART have been available in Canada for years. How many do you see on the streets? The industry cannot sell what the customer will not buy. Over time even the manufacturers of imported small cars like the Camry and Civic have gradually increased the size of both the cars and the engines that power them [the original Camry was avaible only with a 4 cyl engine, and wasn't much larger than today's Corolla]. What's that tell you about what the market wants?

All this conspiracy theory bullshit is tiresome. The auto industry has been brutally competitive for decades. Do you really think that not one single global player in this industry would take an obvious opportunity to fill a real demand? Get serious...

It is true that there are many drivers that will not buy a small car, or for that matter a short range car either. However, everyone that had come into contact with the EV1 had nothing but praise for it. On the face of it the car was very successful indeed. This was not a vehicle that was tried out and did not come up to expectations, eventually to drift off into obscurity on some scrap yard. The cars were prized by the users and were prised out of their possession and while still in full working order, crushed. Destroyed!!

So the primary issue was not a matter of success, but of conflict with an existing product; namely a vehicle powered by gasoline.

But the issues here run much deeper than that. The battery powered car is seen as the most energy efficient, taking the full lifetime from manufacture to worn out and thrown away.

Hydrogen, currently being touted as the best thing since sliced bread, powering a fuel cell; may be still in development ten, twenty years from now. And Hydrogen has many drawbacks including that it is very VERY expensive to produce and store being highly explosive and extremely difficult to prevent from leaking from storage. Ask NASA about that.

However, Hydrogen will be supplied by the same oil companies that control the market for Gasoline.

Furthermore, the vehicle that has ostensibly ousted the EV1 does not compete on the road as it is not for sale, unlike the EV1 was. So this is all about the suppression (of a successful vehicle from the nations viewpoint), that was seen as an obstacle to control of the long term supply of energy to the transport system from the oil companies.

Much more importantly, you tout the United States as THE place to be to develop new technology, yet stand by and do nothing to create the working environment for the one thing you must have if you are going to succeed in a technology based economy..... INNOVATION.

This story is signal for the one thing it tells us very clearly indeed.

The United States has no industrial leadership focused upon the long term needs of the nation, as a nation.

Particularly the leadership it must have from the financial sector that will see that the long term needs of the nation must be founded upon a fully competitive platform of innovation. Each new idea running up alongside all the existing vested interests of the less innovative industries.

Any fool can compete when they can suppress any new competitor before it becomes visible to the marketplace it serves. So another aspect of the story of the EV1 is that it is a demonstration of classic feudalism and feudalism is no different than communism when all is said and done. Both systems do everything they can to keep control of anyone and everyone.

Not one of you have any idea of what technology will succeed to displace what you have today.

Innovators world wide already know the one thing that matters; new innovations will displace the old.

If all you are doing is keeping the existing technologies safe from competition, you make yourselves the laughing stock of the innovative world around you. Yes, the laughing stock.

And, please, do not for one moment think that the rest of the world will cast a glance in your direction as you slip under the threshold and become a third world nation. No new products, uncompetitive products that fail, products made in.... wherever. That is the recipe for a third world screwdriver nation.... do not believe me? Take another look at where most things you buy are made today. NOT in the USA.

Someone, somewhere, has to stand up and be counted. Innovators need to see real leadership from financial institutions that see the need for competitive, free enterprise or we walk......... AWAY.

[GRG55]

Re: Who Killed the Electric Car? A "MUST SEE" FILM

It is true that there are many drivers that will not buy a small car, or for that matter a short range car either. However, everyone that had come into contact with the EV1 had nothing but praise for it. On the face of it the car was very successful indeed. This was not a vehicle that was tried out and did not come up to expectations, eventually to drift off into obscurity on some scrap yard. The cars were prized by the users and were prised out of their possession and while still in full working order, crushed. Destroyed!!

So the primary issue was not a matter of success, but of conflict with an existing product; namely a vehicle powered by gasoline.

But the issues here run much deeper than that. The battery powered car is seen as the most energy efficient, taking the full lifetime from manufacture to worn out and thrown away.

Hydrogen, currently being touted as the best thing since sliced bread, powering a fuel cell; may be still in development ten, twenty years from now. And Hydrogen has many drawbacks including that it is very VERY expensive to produce and store being highly explosive and extremely difficult to prevent from leaking from storage. Ask NASA about that.

However, Hydrogen will be supplied by the same oil companies that control the market for Gasoline.

Furthermore, the vehicle that has ostensibly ousted the EV1 does not compete on the road as it is not for sale, unlike the EV1 was. So this is all about the suppression (of a successful vehicle from the nations viewpoint), that was seen as an obstacle to control of the long term supply of energy to the transport system from the oil companies.

Much more importantly, you tout the United States as THE place to be to develop new technology, yet stand by and do nothing to create the working environment for the one thing you must have if you are going to succeed in a technology based economy..... INNOVATION.

This story is signal for the one thing it tells us very clearly indeed.

The United States has no industrial leadership focused upon the long term needs of the nation, as a nation.

Particularly the leadership it must have from the financial sector that will see that the long term needs of the nation must be founded upon a fully competitive platform of innovation. Each new idea running up alongside all the existing vested interests of the less innovative industries.

Any fool can compete when they can suppress any new competitor before it becomes visible to the marketplace it serves. So another aspect of the story of the EV1 is that it is a demonstration of classic feudalism and feudalism is no different than communism when all is said and done. Both systems do everything they can to keep control of anyone and everyone.

Not one of you have any idea of what technology will succeed to displace what you have today.

Innovators world wide already know the one thing that matters; new innovations will displace the old.

If all you are doing is keeping the existing technologies safe from competition, you make yourselves the laughing stock of the innovative world around you. Yes, the laughing stock.

And, please, do not for one moment think that the rest of the world will cast a glance in your direction as you slip under the threshold and become a third world nation. No new products, uncompetitive products that fail, products made in.... wherever. That is the recipe for a third world screwdriver nation.... do not believe me? Take another look at where most things you buy are made today. NOT in the USA.

Someone, somewhere, has to stand up and be counted. Innovators need to see real leadership from financial institutions that see the need for competitive, free enterprise or we walk......... AWAY.

As I said above, the global automobile manufacturing industry has been brutally competitive for decades. Every imaginable profitable market niche has been exploited, and quite a few unprofitable market niches too [the GM Hummer, VW Phaeton, Daimler Maybach and Toyota Prius all come to mind].

Much has been made of GM's decision regarding the EV1, but none of the critiques have ever even attempted to demonstrate that there was a viable, profitable business making and selling EV1s for a mass-market manufacturer like GM.

If there is such a wonderful, unfulfilled, opportunity to make a business out of selling electric cars, why is it that not one single car manufacturer, including the vaunted Toyota, has a true mass market product out there? The Volt is contributing to GMs downfall [by sucking up valuable resources into an ultimately unprofitable product], not its salvation.

[mikedev10]

Re: Who Killed the Electric Car? A "MUST SEE" FILM

the volt already seems fairly unimpressive for what it is, a 10 years newer version of the ev1, in a time where electricity compared to gas is even cheaper. i have a difficult time believing the ev1 would have survived if being offered to the market at its price point, since the volt does not appear viable at its price point today either.

i do like the idea of something like that zenn being a city car only and having different rules applied to its build.

[petertribo]

Re: Who Killed the Electric Car? A "MUST SEE" FILM

Too bad some folk posting here did not even look at some of the info on the site.

The Government of Quebec which owns the massive power utility, HYDRO QUEBEC is offering a $4000 refundable tax credit on a ZENN purchase! I guess they must think that since they are in the Electric Power business an electric car industry in Canada might be good for them. My gut feeling is that HYDRO QUEBEC might know what they are talking about unlike some armchair experts. Thus, there is quite a bit of synergy in an electric car for Quebec.

Other jurisdictions are also offering refundable tax credits of differing amounts.

There is also an interesting cost calculator at the ZENN site.

Good luck to the ZENN Company and other startup auto companies for finally offering alternatives to the AUTO Oligopoly. Just like Jobs and Wozniak showed BIG IBM how to make a computer, BIG AUTO may finally get some real competition.

[Chris Coles]

Re: Who Killed the Electric Car? A "MUST SEE" FILM

Just like Jobs and Wozniak showed BIG IBM how to make a computer, BIG AUTO may finally get some real competition.

I have to say you did indeed remind me of that wonderful advert where the young man runs down the isle and throws a sledgehammer through the screen.

You will never succeed to break the mould unless you grasp your chance and run with it. But one of the great problems today is that finance seems to think that the only product that will succeed is one that brings an instant profit, (to them), and the company making it can be sold to a GM or a major oil company the following week.

Your most successful product took decades of hit and miss development before it started to show real long term promise .......

GRG55, go on, try it for yourself. Go and see if you can fill a trolley basket with made in the USA from a large store like Walmart...... and then wonder how the nation is going to employ all those school leavers at anything other than as a cash till operator selling NOT made in the USA.

[GRG55]

Re: Who Killed the Electric Car? A "MUST SEE" FILM

Too bad some folk posting here did not even look at some of the info on the site.

The Government of Quebec which owns the massive power utility, HYDRO QUEBEC is offering a $4000 refundable tax credit on a ZENN purchase! I guess they must think that since they are in the Electric Power business an electric car industry in Canada might be good for them. My gut feeling is that HYDRO QUEBEC might know what they are talking about unlike some armchair experts. Thus, there is quite a bit of synergy in an electric car for Quebec.

Other jurisdictions are also offering refundable tax credits of differing amounts.

There is also an interesting cost calculator at the ZENN site.

Good luck to the ZENN Company and other startup auto companies for finally offering alternatives to the AUTO Oligopoly. Just like Jobs and Wozniak showed BIG IBM how to make a computer, BIG AUTO may finally get some real competition.

I was born and raised in Canada. Government subsidies and tax fiddling are a national pastime up here. Particularly so for anything associated with the Province of Quebec [don't get me started on how much Federal tax money has been pissed away supporting a Quebec based aeronautics industry, and perpetual political-darling Bombardier]. Using government tax subsidies as an indicator that some policy or another is a "good thing", or that whatever is being subsidized is actually viable in the long run [clearly its not viable in the short run, or it wouldn't need the subsidy], isn't supported by the aggregate record of past experience with government subsidies in my country...

The argument about electric cars has been brought up a number of times on various threads on iTulip. If there was a viable electric car, or other alternative technology that could be mass marketed, in an appropriately sized vehicle, at an entry price point and ongoing ownership cost that most people could actually afford to pay, there would be auto manufacturers making and selling them already. And the comments that its all the oil companies doing [because they are suppressing R&D, buying up all the patents, or forcing the inventors out of business] or BIG AUTO [who are apparently all too fat, lazy, inefficient, and stupid to see the light] are amusingly absurd and nothing more.

Even Toyota is backing away from its hybrid technology. I see lots of commercials for Toyota on the television, but none promoting any of their hybrids. Why is that? Perhaps Toyota simply cannot afford the ongoing subsidies for an expensive low volume product.?

Some day there will be a viable large-scale displacement of the hydrocarbon-fueled internal combustion engine powered automobile. But I expect that will be decades from now, because there simply needs to be an enormous amount of R&D and associated infrastructure displacement that has to occur to achieve that. In the meantime Tata will sell many Nanos, the upcoming Chinese automakers will build on the technologies that are known to work now to replace the Koreans, who previously replaced the Japanese, who long ago replaced the US and Europeans as the fastest growing suppliers of cars to the world.

[labasta]

Re: Who Killed the Electric Car? A "MUST SEE" FILM

I'm with Chris on this one.

I saw that film a few weeks ago. The culprit is mostly GM with the petro companies putting their chips in too. You see, GM makes too much money selling petro engine widgets.

I actually believe this issue is near the core of the current economic problems of the world. I think it is a symptom of our feudal banking system which requires cash cows (anti-innovation) to survive to produce ever more growth (debt). More stuff has to be sold, not less for our economic model to survive. That is the problem.

There are countless other examples: hemp being outlawed so the logging and nylon industries could monopolise and not lose money; Dyson not being able to successfully pitch his vacuum cleaner to companies because they made too much money on bags; Tesla not being allowed to develop his free energy from the earth because Morgan couldn't capitalise on it; the inventor of the water powered car of the early 80s being threatened by the Feds. The list goes on and on and on and on.

We have to change the way money is represented. Our credit system has to change before we go on vacation to the moon etc. And also if we want to stop destroying the environment. The two go hand in hand.

I believe we would be light years ahead in technology, at least were transportation is concerned, if our monetary system were not feudal in nature.

Look at all the products and technology of today and they all have one thing in common: they increase the number of things sold - they increase the money supply. Take computers. The typewriter is obsolete. Now do you think there was more money in selling typewriters, ribbons etc. or in computers (software and hardware)... it's a no-brainer.

That is the problem.

If you are an inventor who has invented a product which will decrease the money supply, no matter how good (or rather especially if it is good), it will never see the light of day. Inventors don't realise this though of course.

[LargoWinch]

Re: Who Killed the Electric Car? A "MUST SEE" FILM

Look at all the products and technology of today and they all have one thing in common: they increase the number of things sold - they increase the money supply. Take computers. The typewriter is obsolete. Now do you think there was more money in selling typewriters, ribbons etc. or in computers (software and hardware)... it's a no-brainer.

That is the problem.

If you are an inventor who has invented a product which will decrease the money supply, no matter how good (or rather especially if it is good), it will never see the light of day. Inventors don't realise this though of course.

labasta, production and money supply are two very different things.

An increase (or decrease) in production does not affect the money supply in an economy.

[GRG55]

Re: Who Killed the Electric Car? A "MUST SEE" FILM

I'm with Chris on this one.

I saw that film a few weeks ago. The culprit is mostly GM with the petro companies putting their chips in too. You see, GM makes too much money selling petro engine widgets.

I actually believe this issue is near the core of the current economic problems of the world. I think it is a symptom of our feudal banking system which requires cash cows (anti-innovation) to survive to produce ever more growth (debt). More stuff has to be sold, not less for our economic model to survive. That is the problem.

There are countless other examples: hemp being outlawed so the logging and nylon industries could monopolise and not lose money; Dyson not being able to successfully pitch his vacuum cleaner to companies because they made too much money on bags; Tesla not being allowed to develop his free energy from the earth because Morgan couldn't capitalise on it; the inventor of the water powered car of the early 80s being threatened by the Feds. The list goes on and on and on and on.

We have to change the way money is represented. Our credit system has to change before we go on vacation to the moon etc. And also if we want to stop destroying the environment. The two go hand in hand.

I believe we would be light years ahead in technology, at least were transportation is concerned, if our monetary system were not feudal in nature.

Look at all the products and technology of today and they all have one thing in common: they increase the number of things sold - they increase the money supply. Take computers. The typewriter is obsolete. Now do you think there was more money in selling typewriters, ribbons etc. or in computers (software and hardware)... it's a no-brainer.

That is the problem.

If you are an inventor who has invented a product which will decrease the money supply, no matter how good (or rather especially if it is good), it will never see the light of day. Inventors don't realise this though of course.

Water powered car...

Almost as believable as yogic flying.

Some of you people are beyond hope...:p

[and maybe we need to spend less money on internet access for schools, and more on teaching basic science]

[gwynedd1]

Re: Who Killed the Electric Car? A "MUST SEE" FILM

Who Killed the Electric Car

The curious story of the short life of one of the fastest, most efficient production cars ever built.

It ran on electricity, produced no emissions and catapulted American technology to the forefront of the automotive industry. The lucky few who drove it never wanted to give it up. So why did General Motors crush its fleet of EV1 electric vehicles into landfill sites in the obscurity of the Arizona desert?

Chris Paine's documentary investigates the events that led to the quiet destruction of an apparently promising product.

Through interviews, ranging from enthusiastic owner Mel Gibson to ex-CIA boss R James Woolsey, the film paints a picture of an industrial culture whose aversion to change and reliance on oil may run deeper then its ability to embrace new, radical solutions.

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/w...es-1/episode-1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsJAlrYjGz8

http://www.whokilledtheelectriccar.com/


This is a two hour film that absolutely must be seen by everyone interested in why the United States has fallen behind, both financially as well as industrially. This is by far the best example of what I call a feudal mercantile economy in operation where vested interests take complete control of the companies that have created a new product and remove it from any possibility of sale. You could not find a better example of anti-competitive behaviour anywhere on the planet. Better than any B movie about life behind the Iron Curtain. Better by far than anything you might remember about the prohibition era gangsters running the economy.

If you honestly believe that this is how to run a nation that is supposed to believe it can lift itself out of the recession through the power of investment in new innovative technology, this will shame you. Will show you the truth..... Forget it. With VC's that take complete control and sell on the company to the highest bidder, all you get is this sort of utter stupidity.

Unless the United States changes direction with its equity investment policies, nothing will change.

To the VC's that sold out for the quick profit. I ask; when will you stand up and recognise that you have wider responsibilities to your nation?

To the need to ensure that new technologies are not suppressed.

That the innovators of your nation are not sold out short to vested interests.

I lay the complete blame for this farrago right at the feet of the hundred or so companies that call themselves Venture capitalists.

Shame on you, all of you.

If you really want to ensure the success of your nation, you are all of you going to have to change the way you invest and you must from now onwards invest in such a manner that the originator of the new technology is left free to carry on competing. Without the fresh competition from new technologies, you are running into deep sand and stagnation will overtake any chance of a revival of your nations fortunes.

Hi Chris,


I heard that these were leased out and when the leases were up people were hiding them because they did not want to return them. I look forward to watching this. Thanks for the post.