Hudson - Economic Meltdown: The "Dollar Glut" is What Finances America's Global Military Build-up

[Diarmuid]

Re: Hudson - Economic Meltdown: The "Dollar Glut" is What Finances America's Global Military Build-u

As an aside if you would like to see an example of the sterilized term cheap labour arbitrage working hand in glove with our codified legal system. Shiva Vadana delivers a wonderful lecture here

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...Shiva&st=month

[Mango]

Re: Hudson - Economic Meltdown: The "Dollar Glut" is What Finances America's Global Military Build-u

If you read Hudson's book Super Imperialism you see him pointing out the positive influences the U.S. exerted in the early years after WWII.

So I don't think the options are limited to an either/or situation between U.S. hegemony versus world anarchy, or between realpolitik and barbarism.

There is certainly a patriotic blindness in this county which assumes that all we have visited upon the world is holy. That is, of course, nonsense, and it most needs to be understood by U.S. citizens, the great bulk of whom have no insight into why we are not universally loved. Lacking that insight we turn more and more into a reactive, pernicious influence, toward Bush-Cheneyism. We become our own worst enemies and misuse and mis-spend the power and money we do have, which creates a vicious spiral into the depths.

The alternative, rather than abandoning the world to other potential hegemons, is in judicious and honest use of our power, but that requires a broader and fairer viewpoint of other cultures and economies, as well as a willingness to forgo short term corporate gain for a greater self-interest. As the sloganeers say--"No Justice, No Peace."

Listening to and understanding the viewpoints of thinkers like Hudson is key to grasping what we do right and what we do wrong. I would be content to have the U.S. as global policeman if it was enforcing justice and modeling responsible government. Sadly, I don't think it is.

[Guest]

Re: Hudson - Economic Meltdown: The "Dollar Glut" is What Finances America's Global Military Build-u

Mango - Are you impugning the quality of our educational system? Our high schools are the envy of the world (peerless), and deserve better than this faint praise. :eek: :p :rolleyes:

The alternative, rather than abandoning the world to other potential hegemons, is in judicious and honest use of our power, but that requires a broader and fairer viewpoint of other cultures and economies.

[*T*]

Re: Hudson - Economic Meltdown: The "Dollar Glut" is What Finances America's Global Military Build-u

Finland?

That shows how absolutely little you know about the situation or Finland.

A fact I don't deny.

I wasn't Finland-bashing so don't take offence, by the way. I was just looking at the map and giving an opening gambit to elicit a response.

Do they put something in the milk cartons in the US? Maybe they just have different kind of history books?

Both. The books you can verify for yourself (e.g. ask an American who invented television?) and the milk tastes -- well -- terrible... different standards about what you are allowed to feed the cows (hormones etc).

[*T*]

Re: Hudson - Economic Meltdown: The "Dollar Glut" is What Finances America's Global Military Build-u

Precisely.

I see a lot of references to the US empire crumbling the same way the Roman empire did. People making this comparison should remember the rest of the story. The Roman empire was not perfect, but what followed was much worse. US empire with all its problems is the best one I know of. I don't remember which philosopher said "Injustice is better, than disorder", but as a rule of thumb it is usually true (the latest example is the collapse of the former USSR - a lot of people there wish they could go back).

If we want US out of the Middle East, let’s be consistent and get out of Europe/Japan/South America. Let them fight off Russia/China/Castro/Chavez etc. all by themselves. Obviously, they prefer to pay up rather than fight.

Besides, as was already mentioned in this thread, all of CBs prefer to manipulate the forex markets rather than deal with the “barbaric relic”. They are far too sophisticated to deal with the simple solutions.

And so the parasite convinces the host it is required to live.

[*T*]

Re: Hudson - Economic Meltdown: The "Dollar Glut" is What Finances America's Global Military Build-u

Don't forget, along with their empire and their tithing, which slanted the benefits to their direction, they also brought a codified system of law, where a codified system had been far more fragmented before. Roman law *was* applied to the far flung regions of empire and protected many a small shopkeeper or tradesman of that era as well.

English law (& by extension US law) is based on common law and not the Roman legal system They saw a well-developed system and left it in place. Scottish law on the other hand is based on Roman law.

[flintlock]

Re: Hudson - Economic Meltdown: The "Dollar Glut" is What Finances America's Global Military Build-u

They're called the "Dark ages" because comparatively little is known about them due to the absence of much written historical record.

The popular myth that Europe collapsed into an orgy of violence after the fall of Rome is probably some way from the truth. For centuries, the Romans had portrayed unconquered tribes as savage, vicious, animal-like barbarians. This was for the most part propaganda, used to justify their high levels of military spending. [as for whether there's a parallel here with modern day America, I couldn't say :rolleyes:]

The Romans left many more written texts than the non-Roman tribes, and so over the years their propaganda became the mainstream account of the history of the period. Historians who have sought out a wider variety of source materials have come up with a quite different account of the period.

Some excellent writings on this topic here.

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=N...cad=0#PPA27,M1

Thanks for the link. I've been on a Rome reading kick lately. Well it was a very brutal world both during and after the collapse of Rome, no doubt. Probably a lot less law and order in the Dark Ages, but that all depended on your individual situation. The so called "Dark Ages" was characterized by an almost complete lack of literacy among people. Even Kings were illiterate. I'd say life in a region were almost nobody was literate would be very bleak indeed. Even in comparison to Roman life.

While I'm as anti American imperialism as anyone, its hardly fair to compare the brutal world of ancient Rome to the US version of empire. While US presence in some countries has been a positive influence, I don't think it's right to have it forced on them, nor is it in the United State's best interest to do so. That said, there are still countries in the world today that would look a lot more like ancient barbarians if not for the influence of the US. Not PC but the truth.

While I agree that Rome used the nasty image of barbarians as a propaganda tool, there was a lot of truth to it. The fact is Rome was rich, and barbarian tribes wanted a piece of the action. They constituted the only real threat to Rome for centuries after the defeat of Carthage. Compare it to the US " War on Terrorism". The government exaggerates the issue in order to keep the populace motivated. Nothing new here. The fact that tribes like the Vandals originated in NE Germany and yet ended up in North Africa says something about their warlike character! In the end Rome assimilated most tribes that passed through, until there really wasn't much Roman about Rome anymore. I find the parallels between Rome and the US quite fascinating.

[labasta]

Re: Hudson - Economic Meltdown: The "Dollar Glut" is What Finances America's Global Military Build-u

They didn't call 'em the "Dark ages" for nothing.

What if there were no dark ages? ;):eek:

http://www.amazon.com/History-Fictio.../dp/2913621058


That would mean that as the Holy Roman Empire dissolved a period of enlightenment took its place (Renaissance) followed by the Dutch/British Empire which became at odds with the American Republic, so turned America into the American empire and here we are today. Rome to Brit to American.

If Fomenko is right, then the fall of America will precede a period of enlightenment. A new renaissance.

In the mid to long term, we should look forward to the fall of the American Empire.


I've actually read Fomenko's book, and I was very impressed. The astrology and roman numeral chapters were the best IMO.

Some of his assumptions with the older reigns of kings matching the later ones were a bit dodgy, otherwise a mind-blowing book. Not for most people unfortunately.

It's about time independent scientists had a go at archeology and history.

A lot of you will react violently to this book. You have been warned.

[due_indigence]

Re: Hudson - Economic Meltdown: The "Dollar Glut" is What Finances America's Global Military Build-u

Similar to the USD-Oil seesaw relationship, anti-Americanism is correlated to growing nationalism. After Pax Americana (looking admittedly frayed around the edges) there is a vacuum waiting in the wings. The safe haven and flight to safety reflexivities indicate a world that, despite its protestations, does not relish life without the US of A at the helm. Nonetheless that is what awaits us.

I'm no fan of the rampant greed of my fellow Anglo-Saxons (and their Zionist cohorts). Indeed the USD's reserve currency status has bred greed on an epic scale.

America is hardly a fountain of altruism and benevolence. There will always be the Hudson school of unilateral dissenters. But we must always ask, compared to what? Has there ever been a world without bullies? Hegemony is a relative term.

[medved]

Re: Hudson - Economic Meltdown: The "Dollar Glut" is What Finances America's Global Military Build-u

A lot of those people had historical conflicts with Russia, made bets with the Nazis, and lost. I hardly cry for them.

First, Germany and the USSR acquired several countries as a result of the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact. When they made bet on Nazis, Stalin and Hitler were allies, not enemies. The choice between Stalin and Hitler at that time was really tough.

Second, even in Russia (especially, its western parts) many people hoped Germans will liberate them. They remembered the Germans of WWI and thought they would greet the same people as liberators. Wrong idea, but they realized it too late.

So, who is it exactly you don’t cry for?

Poland? It never bet with the Nazis, but lost anyway. The Warsaw uprising was crushed in full view of the Red Army, Stalin did not want any political/military rivals, so he just let Wehrmacht slaughter the Poles, and then entered the city.

Baltics? They never wanted to be a part of the Russian Empire (even Latvia with its painful history of German domination). Estonia had traditionally strong ties to Sweden, even Marx wrote once, that Russian takeover of Estonia is an outrage. Lithuania was occupied first by Russians, not Germans. The Forest Brothers fought against Russians from 1945 till about 1953, tens of thousands of people were murdered by commies.

Bulgaria and Romania were Hitler’s allies, but made a peaceful transition into alliance with Russia. They had their own strong communist movement and did not need any occupation.

Yugoslavia successfully fought Nazis to the degree guerilla forces can fight a regular army. Germany never fully conquered it, and Russia did not even try.

None of these countries is blameless ( who is? ), but nothing justifies Russian OO of the Eastern Europe.

I am afraid, your perception of OO is heavily influenced by the things you heard in Russia over the last several years. You have to take them with a grain of salt. Russians are similar to Americans in the sense they always have a very positive opinion about themselves. At least, in the US (and the West in general) there is a long standing tradition of political/social/cultural dissent and diversity. There is no such thing in Russia. And there is no comparison between American CF and Russian OO. Not even close.

My hope is, this time Russian nationalism will take more moderate form, and Russia will be able to create its own zone of influence without OO.

I think it is safe to say that not all the vassals are in agreement any longer. That China and Russia at a minimum don't think the arrangement is satisfactory, and as lenders of last resort they have cards in the game.

China and Russia are not US vassals. They are willing participants in the current CF order (global Ponzi scheme). Indeed, they may be less willing to participate in the future. They also demonstrated one of their strong playing cards, namely support for the reserve currency basket with some gold content . US will oppose it, but its influence will be diminished. I think, we will have some kind of Plaza Accord II and Bretton Woods II, where the US will still play a central but less dominant role. This time around the US will have to face some kind of reality. The price to pay here will be high inflation (hopefully, not hyper).

So this means you agree that CF can become OO? :confused:

Yes (in Iraq and Afganistan, maybe, Iran and South America), no (Europe, Southeast Asia etc.). The US cannot sustain OO all over the world. Even the USSR and the British Empire could not keep it up.

Ёлки палки! This post has 590 words already! I am turning into Lukester! :confused:

[Supercilious]

Re: Hudson - Economic Meltdown: The "Dollar Glut" is What Finances America's Global Military Build-u

None of these countries is blameless ( who is? ), but nothing justifies Russian OO of the Eastern Europe.

I am afraid, your perception of OO is heavily influenced by the things you heard in Russia over the last several years. You have to take them with a grain of salt. Russians are similar to Americans in the sense they always have a very positive opinion about themselves. At least, in the US (and the West in general) there is a long standing tradition of political/social/cultural dissent and diversity. There is no such thing in Russia. And there is no comparison between American CF and Russian OO. Not even close.

My hope is, this time Russian nationalism will take more moderate form, and Russia will be able to create its own zone of influence without OO.

Excellent medved. Very few people in the west understand Russia. In most cases they have a false opinion distorted pro or con.

I honestly believe only a Russian can really understand what Russia is, with her good and bad parts.

China and Russia are not US vassals. They are willing participants in the current CF order (global Ponzi scheme). Indeed, they may be less willing to participate in the future. They also demonstrated one of their strong playing cards, namely support for the reserve currency basket with some gold content . US will oppose it, but its influence will be diminished. I think, we will have some kind of Plaza Accord II and Bretton Woods II, where the US will still play a central but less dominant role. This time around the US will have to face some kind of reality. The price to pay here will be high inflation (hopefully, not hyper).

..
One minor correction here "They are willing participants in the current CF order (global Ponzi scheme)". Ordinary Russians and Chinese have no fault here. They = China's and Russia's not-so-red-anymore corrupt/greedy elites. Of course, ordinary citizens will end up playing for the greed an corruption of their elites exactly as J6P will end up paying the Wall Street Bailout Fest.

US cannot sustain OO all over the world. Even the USSR and the British Empire could not keep it up.

Yup. The US system is designed for CF.

Ёлки палки! This post has 590 words already! I am turning into Lukester! :confused:

Keep going. I'm all ears.

[flintlock]

Re: Hudson - Economic Meltdown: The "Dollar Glut" is What Finances America's Global Military Build-u

What if there were no dark ages? ;):eek:

http://www.amazon.com/History-Fictio.../dp/2913621058


That would mean that as the Holy Roman Empire dissolved a period of enlightenment took its place (Renaissance) followed by the Dutch/British Empire which became at odds with the American Republic, so turned America into the American empire and here we are today. Rome to Brit to American.

If Fomenko is right, then the fall of America will precede a period of enlightenment. A new renaissance.

In the mid to long term, we should look forward to the fall of the American Empire.


I've actually read Fomenko's book, and I was very impressed. The astrology and roman numeral chapters were the best IMO.

Some of his assumptions with the older reigns of kings matching the later ones were a bit dodgy, otherwise a mind-blowing book. Not for most people unfortunately.

It's about time independent scientists had a go at archeology and history.

A lot of you will react violently to this book. You have been warned.

While I'm a firm believer that history is often re-written inaccurately by the winners, that book strikes me as more than a bit far-fetched. Pyramids built as late as 14th century AD? Come on.

Reminds me of that book "Chariots of the Gods" where aliens visited ancient Earth.
http://www.amazon.com/Chariots-Gods-...8542909&sr=1-1

Sounds more like it belongs in the "alternate history" section of fiction.

[c1ue]

Re: Hudson - Economic Meltdown: The "Dollar Glut" is What Finances America's Global Military Build-u

First, Germany and the USSR acquired several countries as a result of the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact. When they made bet on Nazis, Stalin and Hitler were allies, not enemies. The choice between Stalin and Hitler at that time was really tough.

Second, even in Russia (especially, its western parts) many people hoped Germans will liberate them. They remembered the Germans of WWI and thought they would greet the same people as liberators. Wrong idea, but they realized it too late.

So, who is it exactly you don’t cry for?

Poland? It never bet with the Nazis, but lost anyway. The Warsaw uprising was crushed in full view of the Red Army, Stalin did not want any political/military rivals, so he just let Wehrmacht slaughter the Poles, and then entered the city.

Baltics? They never wanted to be a part of the Russian Empire (even Latvia with its painful history of German domination). Estonia had traditionally strong ties to Sweden, even Marx wrote once, that Russian takeover of Estonia is an outrage. Lithuania was occupied first by Russians, not Germans. The Forest Brothers fought against Russians from 1945 till about 1953, tens of thousands of people were murdered by commies.

Bulgaria and Romania were Hitler’s allies, but made a peaceful transition into alliance with Russia. They had their own strong communist movement and did not need any occupation.

Yugoslavia successfully fought Nazis to the degree guerilla forces can fight a regular army. Germany never fully conquered it, and Russia did not even try.

None of these countries is blameless ( who is? ), but nothing justifies Russian OO of the Eastern Europe.

I am afraid, your perception of OO is heavily influenced by the things you heard in Russia over the last several years. You have to take them with a grain of salt. Russians are similar to Americans in the sense they always have a very positive opinion about themselves. At least, in the US (and the West in general) there is a long standing tradition of political/social/cultural dissent and diversity. There is no such thing in Russia. And there is no comparison between American CF and Russian OO. Not even close.

My hope is, this time Russian nationalism will take more moderate form, and Russia will be able to create its own zone of influence without OO.

So sorry, but your anti-Soviet views fail to take into account the Russia BEFORE the November revolution.

As this map clearly shows, the supposed free nations you speak of were all part of Russia as of 1909.

http://etc.usf.edu/Maps/pages/2500/2528/2528.htm

Sure, Poland existed as a nation once. As did Lithuania. But this was a LONG long time ago.

Even going back to 1871 there's still no Poland nor Lithuania:

http://etc.usf.edu/Maps/pages/800/865/865.htm

1815? Nope still not there

http://etc.usf.edu/Maps/pages/1700/1796/1796.htm

You have to go back to the period of the founding of the United States to even find Poland: http://etc.usf.edu/Maps/pages/2400/2411/2411.htm

So your thinking that I get my views from talking with Russians is flat out wrong. Poland and Lithuania fought to become the overlords of the Slavs, and failed - this goes back to the post Mongol era. I don't cry for nations that TRY to become powers and fail to make it. The legacy of the pancerny is no different than the legacy of T-34s rolling into Eastern Europe.

Do I think Russia would govern territories well? No. The historical record is quite clear. But I equally disagree that the American way is any different.

For every happy (now failed) Orange revolution, there is an Allende. For every Walesa, there is a Pinochet.

The thought that American CF is somehow better is completely idealistic and unrealistic. But of course you are welcome to your own views.

I think, we will have some kind of Plaza Accord II and Bretton Woods II, where the US will still play a central but less dominant role. This time around the US will have to face some kind of reality. The price to pay here will be high inflation (hopefully, not hyper).

Again you ascribe some bizarre type of altruism to US behavior. What the US should do has zero correlation with what it will do. Why should the US 'face reality' when its internal understanding of the world is that the US should keep its place as the economic overlord? I fail to see how decades of US behavior abroad has not changed your strangely forgiving understanding.

Yes (in Iraq and Afganistan, maybe, Iran and South America), no (Europe, Southeast Asia etc.). The US cannot sustain OO all over the world. Even the USSR and the British Empire could not keep it up.

Again, what can be done vs. what will be attempted are entirely different animals. All empires attempt more than can be done; the difference this time is there is no where to hide.

The best thing I can say for Russia is that Russia is at best a middling sized nation in the modern world. There are many nations and political entities with equal or larger population*industry: EU, Japan, Brazil, China, US, India, tc.

On the other hand, the US has only a few nations larger in population, and even fewer which can rival its population*industry, much less sheer wealth.

The whole point of our presently collapsing international understanding is that the US is continuing to act as if the rest of the world is willing to subsidize it as a counterbalance to the Soviets...even when the Soviet Empire is dust.

Whatever Putin/Medvedev do, the Soviet empire isn't coming back. And neither will America's free ride last much longer.

[Slimprofits]

Re: Hudson - Economic Meltdown: The "Dollar Glut" is What Finances America's Global Military Build-u

Thanks for the map resource c1ue.

[Starving Steve]

Re: Hudson - Economic Meltdown: The "Dollar Glut" is What Finances America's Global Military Build-u

It sounds like more revisionist history for pot-heads. I see what pot-heads have accomplished for humanity here in British Columbia with their solar energy, their carbon tax, and their grow-ops. And sadly, nothing useful to anyone has been accomplished.... Now we have a revisionist world history to go with the pot culture, and America and its consumer culture has been villified.

Of course there was a Dark Age when Rome fell. For about six hundred years, nothing was accomplished in the Western World, and much of what had been achieved by the Roman and Greeks was lost to religious bigotry, ignorance, disease, invading Vikings, Visgoths, Barbarians, Mongols, Huns, and invaders from wherever. That Dark Age (460AD to 1060AD) is a warning of what might lie ahead for the world if the American Empire now collapses into ruins.