Bogus 401(k) - Any Advice?

[CanuckinTX]

Re: Bogus 401(k) - Any Advice?

I also have a lot of Merk Hard Currency (MERKX). "It normally invests in a basket of hard currency denominated investments composed of high quality, short-term money market instruments of countries pursuing sound monetary policy and indirectly in gold....

....and it's gone.

[cjppjc]

Re: Bogus 401(k) - Any Advice?

....and it's gone.

Great. I swear I laughed out loud. Laughing as I type this.

[jimmygu3]

Re: Bogus 401(k) - Any Advice?

It was actually quite remarkable the brush off I got from my company's Fidelity rep 2 years ago. I was complaining to them that they had nothing available to hedge against the stock market. He mentioned the select gold fund and I responded that it was basically a stock fund - not a commodities fund. When I said I was going to take all of my money out of the stock funds and put them either into cash or a treasury fund, he said I was nuts and that I would be missing out on the "growth phase" of my investment years. I wonder how many people's growth phase blew up in their faces. Mine didn't.

I got the same response from Fidelity. I also turned down their "free investment advisor". 99% of the people in my company were corralled into Fidelity's "simplified choices" of about 8 funds. I opted out for BrokerageLink, but still can't do stocks or ETFs.

The whole experience is very similar to dealing with religious fanatics. You just have to be sure of yourself and calmly go about your business as they tell you over and over that you (or your investments) are going to hell. And don't hold your breath waiting for them to come back and say, "Wow, you were right after all!"

Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof.
John Kenneth Galbraith

Jimmy

[jimmygu3]

Re: Bogus 401(k) - Any Advice?

Great. I swear I laughed out loud. Laughing as I type this.

OK, I sense that I'm not getting something. What's so funny?

[cjppjc]

Re: Bogus 401(k) - Any Advice?

OK, I sense that I'm not getting something. What's so funny?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ympojyBTcEA

[CanuckinTX]

Re: Bogus 401(k) - Any Advice?

Thanks for following up on that - I posted it wondering if Jimmy would get the joke or not. When I was reading the description of that fund it just reminded me of that banker scene so much!

[jimmygu3]

Re: Bogus 401(k) - Any Advice?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ympojyBTcEA

Oh, that is funny.

[charliebrown]

Re: Bogus 401(k) - Any Advice?

thank you so much for the link i laughed my a$$ off.

[Munger]

Re: Bogus 401(k) - Any Advice?

OK Charles, one more try...You don't seem to like stocks within the sectors that are opposite the industrials; you don't want to buy physical yourself; third and last option: Have you considered Central Fund of Canada, a closed-end fund that buys only gold and silver and stores in their own vaults. Personally, I'd trust their holdings far and above GLD, SLV and other ETFs which will be the ones to lose bigtime if confiscation ever happens. There has been doubt expressed by some that GLD is heavily into the futures market with some of their professed holdings...
I wish you luck in trying to find something that makes you comfortable. :-)

It's not that I don't want physical or ETFs or industrials ... it's that my employer's 401(k) is so restrictive that I cannot do this within it. I need (want) the tax benefits that the 401(k) provides, but do not like the options available. Right now I am 90% in a the money market option, with 10% in intermediate govt bonds. (In my personal Roth IRA I am heavily in CEF, GLD, USO, etc - I also own some, but not much, physical).

My plan does have a self-directed option - much like any off-the-street online broker. Unfortunately it is also restricted to only open ended mutual funds, for our "protection." (they are either afraid of liability or idiots and don't want us getting into ETFs or risky stocks .... meanwhile the funds they offer in the normal plan charge 1% or more in management fees, not to mention the trading spread that kills the returns...)

[walenk]

Re: Bogus 401(k) - Any Advice?

I am also in the mutual-fund-only bind, but I opted for a self-directed option with Schwab (no fee).
I searched, like you, for a commodity fund. The best I could find was PCRDX. I tried it. Fortunately I got out before it tanked. But my reason for getting out was not my great sense of timing, but rather my girlfriend asking "'splain to me again was this fund invests in?".
Currently I make do with with two mining funds GOLDX and BGEIX (30%). With the balance I've gone in and out of various Rydex inverse funds.
If somebody finds a commodity exposure in mutual funds I seriously want to know about it. At some point, probably an extreme point, I worry that my inverses will go Argentina and blow up.

[walenk]

Re: Bogus 401(k) - Any Advice?

Hmmm...I was thinking that back in the '70s (yes, I'm an old fart) I used T.Rowe Price's New Era Fund (damn that was a long time ago!) so i pulled up the screen. It's a turkey, but not as bad as PCRDX. :cool:

[zoog]

Re: Bogus 401(k) - Any Advice?

It's not that I don't want physical or ETFs or industrials ... it's that my employer's 401(k) is so restrictive that I cannot do this within it. I need (want) the tax benefits that the 401(k) provides, but do not like the options available. Right now I am 90% in a the money market option, with 10% in intermediate govt bonds. (In my personal Roth IRA I am heavily in CEF, GLD, USO, etc - I also own some, but not much, physical).

My plan does have a self-directed option - much like any off-the-street online broker. Unfortunately it is also restricted to only open ended mutual funds, for our "protection." (they are either afraid of liability or idiots and don't want us getting into ETFs or risky stocks .... meanwhile the funds they offer in the normal plan charge 1% or more in management fees, not to mention the trading spread that kills the returns...)

I feel your pain, I am in the same boat. My 401k plan has a grand total of fourteen investment options. Twelve mutual funds, a money market fund, and a bond fund. I don't think we even have a self-directed option but if we did it I'm sure it would have the same limitations as yours. The topic has come up on iTulip from time to time. As in this thread most of the advice (given with the best of intentions) is from people who have more flexible 401k plans or have decided to pull all their money out of 401k entirely. Feel stuck? I do. I moved most of mine into the money market as things went south, and figured that's about the best I can do for now. In contrast with the 401k, I have a Roth IRA where I can lose money in just about any investment I want.:rolleyes:

[Munger]

Re: Bogus 401(k) - Any Advice?

I feel your pain, I am in the same boat. My 401k plan has a grand total of fourteen investment options. Twelve mutual funds, a money market fund, and a bond fund. I don't think we even have a self-directed option but if we did it I'm sure it would have the same limitations as yours. The topic has come up on iTulip from time to time. As in this thread most of the advice (given with the best of intentions) is from people who have more flexible 401k plans or have decided to pull all their money out of 401k entirely. Feel stuck? I do. I moved most of mine into the money market as things went south, and figured that's about the best I can do for now. In contrast with the 401k, I have a Roth IRA where I can lose money in just about any investment I want.:rolleyes:

Yep. I've actually been complaining to work friends of mine who are far more senior than I. We have had meetings with the admins and I have produced charts etc explaining the fees of mutual funds, the need for diversification options, why index funds are better than managed funds, ad nauseum - all to no avail. Then they get the JP Morgan BSers on the conference call and they "explain" that they understand and dribble out some stats about how "this fund had some problems this year but the fees are below average and this manager has 30 years experience blah blah blah ...." It's a nightmare.

I have (small) hopes that I convinced them to allow ETFs in the self directed accounts, which would allow me to do as I like. This idea of protecting us from our own decisions is completely idiotic - especially given that less than 1% of employees have set up the self-directed account, and that the option is only available to attorneys. Sigh.

[ronin]

Re: Bogus 401(k) - Any Advice?

Charlie Brown,
I don't think the rollover while continuing with the same employer is option for most folks.
http://www.401khelpcenter.com/mpower...re_050801.html
"In order to get your money from your 401k plan for a rollover, you need to have "a benefit event," as it is known in the human resources industry. That usually means you retire, reach age 59½, or otherwise leave your job."

[loweyecue]

Re: Bogus 401(k) - Any Advice?

If you're with Fidelity ask them about Brokerage Link. We use Fidelity at my company and this option should be available to anyone with a 401k managed by them. You just need to fill out a couple of forms and you can now trade in your 401k account almost as if it's a non-retirement account. Also, there is no fee to use it, just your usual transaction fees for trading stocks, ETF's whatever.

This is only true if your employer has negotiated the ability to have a Brokerage Link account through your 401K, not all employers do that. :mad: