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Happy St. Patrick's Day: Irish Grandparent = Eligible For Irish Citizenship/EU Rights

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  • Happy St. Patrick's Day: Irish Grandparent = Eligible For Irish Citizenship/EU Rights

    z2ire.jpg
    zireland.jpg

    Happy St. Patrick's Day to all. To you also, President O'Bama.

    Those who know or suspect they might have an Irish Grandparent or Irish relatives:

    According to Irish law, those individuals who have one Irish Grandparent can apply for Irish Citizenship through what is known as Foreign Birth Registration. The concept is that you claim your Citizenship by registering your foreign birth. Once one has done this, one can then apply for an Irish passport. There is also another procedure for those with an Irish Great Grandparent but this is much more difficult to accomplish.

    Some financial analysts have recommended holding dual citizenship. One of the reasons to have a second citizenship is that it gives more flexibility if events turn dire. This second citizenship may also be of assistance to one's children in future years. It also adds some flexibility if particular medical care might be needed. This is cheap insurance. Anyone who follows the financial news knows that many prominent Americans have already left Dodge. I know a few unprominent Americans who have done so.

    Getting Irish Citizenship has a number of advantages. For a start you will be able to pass Customs within the European Union much easier than before and if you are interested in working within the EU then having a passport of an EU country will make things a lot easier. There are potential Health and Welfare benefits also.

    Eligiblity: If you have 1 or more Irish born parents then you are automatically considered a citizen and can apply for a Passport straight away. A person will be eligible if one of their grandparents was Irish and possibly even if one of their great-grandparents was Irish. You can also apply for citizenship if you are the child of a naturalised Irish citizen, providing you were born after your parent was naturalized. Marrying an Irish citizen is another route whereby citizenship may possibly be obtained.

    If you are a U.S. citizen you can apply directly to The Embassy of Ireland, 2234 Massachusetts Avenue, N.W., Washington, DC, 20008, (202) 462-3939 or to any of the Consulate Offices of Ireland, a full listing of which is available by clicking here.

    Documentation: You will need to supply the long version of your Birth Certificate and those of any relatives that you are claiming citizenship through. Marraige and Death certificates where applicable will be required. You will also need to provide extensive proof of you own identity (Passport, Driving License, Work Identification card, etc.). You will need 2 Passport size photographs.

    There is a fee of up to US$179 for adults, US$64 for applicants under 18 years of age. The hardest part of the process is collecting the required documentation, especially the Birth certificates of relatives (Grandparents who may be deceased, etc.). You will not in any way jeopardise your currently held Citizenship or Passport status by holding 'dual' citizenship. To get the process started, contact the Irish Consulate in your country, (details from here).
    http://www.ireland-information.com/a...itizenship.htm
    Some more info:
    http://www.irishclub.org/citizenship.htm

    For those who might pursue this:

    I had known about this opportunity years ago but never acted on it. However, the events of the past years have convinced me that the more options one has, the better. So, I acquired all the necessary docs and sent in my application about four months ago. It was accepted and I was told the wait for approval could be up to 1.5 years.

    Perhaps it might be useful to describe the docs search I did. I only had to prove a link to one grandparent and prove that grandparent was born in Ireland. I am not a geneaologist but pretty good with a search engine. The best strategy is to start with the latest docs. I chose my maternal grandfather as my Irish link. I had only my own birth certificate to start. So, I acquired my mother's birth, death and marriage certificates. I acquired my grandfather's marriage certificate. All these docs gave enough info to search for my grandfather's death certificate. I had some trouble turning that up but finally succeeded. With that I luckily had enough info to obtain his Long Form Birth Certificate from Ireland. That proved the link to a Grandparent born in Ireland. (Some docs may be available from both private and govt sources and there could be a significant price differential.)

    There are lot of geneaological resources on the Internet. Some forums are free, some pay, some both.
    I used forums for free at this site:
    http://genforum.genealogy.com/
    Folks were very nice and helpful and I found out useful info.

    Here is a link for all geneaological centers in Ireland.
    http://www.irish-roots.ie/counties.asp

    It was very interesting doing all this research. One also begins to understand the craving Governments have for all the data they can get and how our privacy diminishes daily. Not a good thing.

    Disclaimer: I have no financial interest in Ireland or in promoting it.


  • #2
    Re: Happy St. Patrick's Day: Irish Grandparent = Eligible For Irish Citizenship/EU Rights

    An interesting discussion. I have 2 grandparents who were born in Ireland and emigrated to the U.S. in their early twenties. I had actually investigated this process a while back when I was upset with some of policies of Bush Administration, but ultimately did not take action.

    Biggest issue - what am I going to do about my American spouse (German extraction) and son? If I ever pulled the trigger and moved to Ireland because the shit had totally hit the fan in the U.S., it would not be easy to take them with.

    That plus the financial costs of relocating in one's middle age and mid-career. Trying to find a decent job would be there with no contacts would be very difficult. The incentives would to move have to be VERY strong to leave and the U.S. is still doing reasonably well compared to rest of world. If the U.S. truly goes to hell, then God help us, because the rest of the world will be doing pretty badly also.

    Two of my single cousins did move to Ireland for a while planning to stay, but both ended up returning to the U.S. after a couple of years. Culture shock, lower standard of living, difficulty getting a decent job, and being the "outsider" all played a role.

    Re: the passport issue, someday that might be a good reason, but for most U.S. citizens, the U.S. passport is really sufficient right now for traveling the world. I've been all over the world and never had any problems. For an American journalist trying to get into Libya, then it might be worth it...but that's an extreme case.

    You do make a good point and especially for younger people who qualify, it's an option they might want to look into. But I honestly don't think we're anywhere near the point that makes emigrating to Ireland worthwhile for the average U.S. citizens. They have great social welfare benefits in Europe, the problem is you have to live there to collect, that's the kicker.

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    • #3
      Re: Happy St. Patrick's Day: Irish Grandparent = Eligible For Irish Citizenship/EU Rights

      Happy St. Patty's day. I have Great Grandparents who were from Ireland. This would be a cool novelty type of thing. However if the shit does hit the fan I am not sure how Ireland would be the place to go. They have there own bag of problems and a weak economy. Can't imagine employment is going to be much better there. I might as well save myself some money and stay in the US and be poor rather than moving to Ireland to be poor.

      Also unless you marry a local you will probably always be seen as a tourist.
      Last edited by Guinnesstime; March 17, 2009, 12:12 PM. Reason: reword

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      • #4
        Re: Happy St. Patrick's Day: Irish Grandparent = Eligible For Irish Citizenship/EU Rights

        the point of an EU passport is that it lets you work anywhere in the EU, not just Ireland. Also you don't have to go to Europe to get the benefit of the EU citizenship. It makes it much easier to open a bank account in Europe for instance.

        I want to make another point about the discussion here: We kind of have a collective blind spot. In any discussion of a deep economic problem or "crisis", one has to consider a range of possible outcomes. On one side is the 1970s style recession in which not much changes in most peoples day to day lives. On the other is the collapse of western civilization. There is a huge range of possibilities in the middle. Many people actively avoids discussion of the latter because it gets you labeled as an extremist nut and your ability to influence discussions declines. That doesn't mean those ideas are wrong, just that they put you in the wrong crowd.

        Itulip has kind of a schizophrenic attitude towards the near future. On the one hand we are told to keep gold ( in a shoe box under the bed perhaps ) and on the other to avoid shotguns and canned food. both measures are "end of the world" hedges. Just think about it: If we where looking at a repeat of double digit inflation and a pull back in world trade don't you think it would be wise to buy commodities in short supply? they get used up, gold doesn't. Itulip is really telling us that there is a good chance that all normal commerce will simply seize up. Later after about 20 years you can come out of your unibomber cabin and exchange your gold for whatever currency the survivors are using. Gary Brecher has an excellent write up on the socio-pathic slant of this attitude:
        http://exiledonline.com/war-nerd-apocalypse-never/

        Back to the topic. If we look at the example of the great depression, the massive dislocations of world war seems directly attributable to the economic crisis that preceded it. There has been some discussion on this site of capital controls designed to prevent you from taking your money out of the US. You can bet that all sorts of societal controls will soon be put in place. Your ability to move to another country and get a job will be pivotal. Some of my relatives fled Hitlers death camps by passing through Argentina en route to the US. This was at a time when the US had quotas on immigrants from Europe that would have prevented them from coming in. Soon the world will again descend into depression and war. Obama is continuing the policies of his predecessors and in some instances making them worse. This is what uncle Sam has in store for you:
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0P-hvPJPTi4

        The best plan is to not be in a place that requires you to have gold, guns and canned food in the first place.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Happy St. Patrick's Day: Irish Grandparent = Eligible For Irish Citizenship/EU Rights

          Originally posted by globaleconomicollaps View Post
          the point of an EU passport is that it lets you work anywhere in the EU, not just Ireland. Also you don't have to go to Europe to get the benefit of the EU citizenship. It makes it much easier to open a bank account in Europe for instance.
          You hit the nail on the head... The second passport is to have the freedom to open accounts in other countries with your alternate passport instead of the US passport. As in you wouldn't be getting gang raped right now by the IRS if you were with UBS in Switzerland and your account listed you as Irish... Thats just a case in point, but its always best to declare anything as required by law...

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          • #6
            Re: Happy St. Patrick's Day: Irish Grandparent = Eligible For Irish Citizenship/EU Rights

            The EU passport is a nice feature for the Irish grandparent thing.

            But overall I think there are lots of scenarios that need to be played out first - particularly whether Germany will acquiesce to bail out the PIIGS of which Ireland is the middle initial.

            Another factor is the rapid decline of the UK - historically bad times in the UK often trickle over to their neighbor.

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            • #7
              Re: Happy St. Patrick's Day: Irish Grandparent = Eligible For Irish Citizenship/EU Rights

              Yes. for young and old, this may have great benefits, it really depends upon one's own individual situation. I was not implying at all that things are so desperate in the US that one should emigrate. In fact, I did not mention emigration at all. I was saying one might consider acquiring another citizenship and the rights that gives. Some, as we know, have already left the US; their assessment of the situation was to leave.

              I am retired so employment is not an issue. Other issues are more important to me. One of those is quality, cost and access to healthcare. I could easily imagine someone with a serious health problem benefiting from Irish citizenship and easier access to the EU.

              I don't buy the "outsider" idea, particularly if you speak the same language. I would find it hard to imagine going to Dublin and sitting down with folks who had many of the same financial and world views that I would be an outsider. It is easy to meet people of a like mind and disposition. Certain lifestyles and attitudes are much more global today than they once were.

              ...the point of an EU passport is that it lets you work anywhere in the EU, not just Ireland. Also you don't have to go to Europe to get the benefit of the EU citizenship. It makes it much easier to open a bank account in Europe for instance.
              Yes, this is one of the main benefits. Additionally, in the research I did, I did see some reference to reduced costs for some services to Irish citizens with EU rights.

              There has been some discussion on this site of capital controls designed to prevent you from taking your money out of the US. You can bet that all sorts of societal controls will soon be put in place. Your ability to move to another country and get a job will be pivotal. Some of my relatives fled Hitlers death camps by passing through Argentina en route to the US. This was at a time when the US had quotas on immigrants from Europe that would have prevented them from coming in.
              Spot on. Again, who can guarantee the future actions of the US government? Isn't the message of the last eight years that the US Government is unpredictable, unstable and becoming more so as each day passes.

              If you want to read a book about how a civilized country can be destroyed in a very short time, read Victor Klemperer:

              Victor Klemperer (9 October 1881 – 11 February 1960) was a businessman, journalist and eventually a Professor of Literature, specialising in the French Enlightenment at the Technische Universität Dresden. His diaries detailing his life, successively, in the German Empire, the Weimar Republic, Nazi Germany and in the German Democratic Republic were published in 1995.
              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_Klemperer

              As a Professor Of Literature and expert on Propaganda Klemperer will take you through the step by step and daily destruction and collapse of Germany. And, as we know, lots of folks, not just Jews, missed the Timing of when to get out. I would prefer to be early on my Timing rather than late. I prefer to have an Exit rather than a closed door.

              As pointed out, yes there is some question now of even the future of the EU and Ireland's role or even membership in it. One, however, has to act on the reality of today in terms of applying for citizenship.

              Lastly, in my opinion, American citizenship has been devalued over the last (pick your time frame). We have less Constitutional Rights, less Justice, poorer healthcare, more corrpt Government, a looted Treasury, etc. It makes sense to me that if the currency upon which a country is based is itself debased and devalued then its citizenship is also. I would like to hear some financial analysts on that subject. I think some of them, like Jim Rogers and Bill Bonner, have already voted with their feet.

              Also this was not intended to talk only about Irish Citizenship but about dual citizenship, the benefits thereof and how it may be obtained by Americans of other ethnic backgrounds or even by naturalization.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Happy St. Patrick's Day: Irish Grandparent = Eligible For Irish Citizenship/EU Rights

                Hello,

                I picked up my Irish passport about a week ago and the grin is still on my face when think about the options, opportunities, etc that it grants me. Certainly it was an effort to gather the paperwork but the total cost was around $300 (including mailing, copies, photo's, everything) and so worth it.

                Once I had my certificate of citizenship it took only 2.5 weeks for them to process and issue the actual passport, what takes the most time is waiting for your registration to be put in the book in Ireland (4-5 months). Additionally the time it takes you to track down the various certificates depends on your own circumstances.

                If you are eligible and not flat broke there is no reason not to get one besides laziness.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Happy St. Patrick's Day: Irish Grandparent = Eligible For Irish Citizenship/EU Rights

                  Originally posted by downtherabbithole View Post
                  Hello,

                  I picked up my Irish passport about a week ago and the grin is still on my face when think about the options, opportunities, etc that it grants me.
                  200px-Leprechaun_ill_artlibre_jnl.png


                  I was wondering: once you were given your Passport, did they Officially issue a license to track Leprechuans and their Pots Of Gold? I understand State Secrets are involved. At the very least, once I have my Passport, I hope to be consulting Leprechuans as to proper Gold Storage techniques.

                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leprechaun

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