One in 31

[Rajiv]

One in 31 in Prison, Jail, or on Probation or Parole in US.

Explosive growth in the number of people on probation or parole has propelled the population of the American corrections system to more than 7.3 million, or 1 in every 31 U.S. adults, according to a report released by the Pew Center on the States. The vast majority of these offenders live in the community, yet new data in the report finds that nearly 90 percent of state corrections dollars are spent on prisons. One in 31: The Long Reach of American Corrections examines the scale and cost of prison, jail, probation and parole in each of the 50 states, and provides a blueprint for states to cut both crime and spending by reallocating prison expenses to fund stronger supervision of the large number of offenders in the community.

[Glenn Black]

Re: One in 31

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[tsetsefly]

Re: One in 31

the Drug War doing its job! :rolleyes:

[petertribo]

Re: One in 31

It is even worse than that:

Last month the judge involved, Mark Ciavarella, and the presiding judge of the juvenile court, Michael Conahan, pleaded guilty to having accepted $2.6m (£1.8m) from the co-owner and builder of a private detention centre where children aged from 10 to 17 were locked up.

The cases of up to 2,000 children put into custody by Ciavarella over the past seven years - including that of Transue - are now being reviewed in a billowing scandal dubbed "kids for cash". The alleged racket has raised questions about the cosy ties between the courts and private contractors, and about the harsh treatment meted out to adolescents.

Alerted by Laurene Transue, the Juvenile Law Centre in Wilkes-Barre began to uncover scores of cases in which teenagers had been summarily sent to custody by Ciavarella, dating as far back as 1999. One child was detained for stealing a $4 jar of nutmeg, another for throwing a sandal at her mother, a third aged 14 was held for six months for slapping a friend at school.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009...tention-centre

Justice is just another part of the vast range of American Myths. Judges and Prosecutors in most jurisdictions are political appointees. Where they are "elected" they are held hostage to Politics. In addition, they are all members of a Monopolistic Trade Union along with the lawyers they club and pal around with. The non members of the Monopolistic Trade Union are just meat for the Legal Mill to be squeezed for as much profit as possible. Most positions in this System are revolving door, just like DC Lobbyist/Legislator interchangeability.

Just like Economics, Law has a whole panoply of jargon, theory, practice, methodology, etc. of arcane, ridiculous, unnecessary, useless flim and flam to give the appearance of rationality and logic. Most of it is just who you know or who you can influence, one way or the other.

And the economic model is such that Judges, Prosecutors, Lawyers and all those "working" in the legal system always WIN since they all get a pay day, one way or the other. The Losers are the citizens held hostage to this Injustice System. Do not enter those Dark Doors Of Injustice.

You may be next so here is a link about about the Litigation Vortex:

http://www.ejfi.org/Courts/Courts-5.htm

More legal stuff in the thread:

Lawyers recount 'Black Thursday'

[flintlock]

Re: One in 31

I pretty much agree with all of the above. I had to sit through court as a witness last year and for two days watch a parade of offenders have their lives seriously messed up for what I thought were very minor offenses. It was a real eye opener to me. Most didn't have lawyers and always got the harshest sentences. Those who hired a lawyer got far less in most cases.( Lesson: always hire a lawyer). I couldn't understand why people accused of the same offense got different penalties depending on whether or not they hired a lawyer. They were both pleading guilty . It's like you had to pay one of the judges buddies in order to get a lighter sentence. Driving and DUI schools are part of the same racket.

Oh, and the case I was to be a witness for, the reason I had to miss two days of work and sit through court? They dropped the charges. He had a lawyer. The guy got caught on his 2nd DUI in the same week and they dropped the charges. I got a subpoena, so had no choice. The dirtbag prosecutor had no problem forcing me to miss two days work on the chance she might need me. Then dropped the case. :mad:

I understand there are reasons for some of the relatively arcane legal procedures, but I also agree a lot of it is merely to ensure anyone not a member of the lawyer cartel can be easily foiled.

They also use a lot of dirty intimidation tricks. A former employee was ordered to appear because he was behind on child support. He's in construction and of course the economy has been bad. He was behind $800. The ex claimed $13,000!. He had proof he wasn't that ffar behind, so no problem he thought, he'd just show it to them. When he arrived they told him to either sign a statement admitting he owed the $13k or go immediately to jail. No chance to go before the judge. See, they knew he didn't have a lawyer. He didn't think he needed one. Big mistake.

[occdude]

Re: One in 31

Thank god for economic crisises. Were it not for the restrictions of economic reality and the unsustainability of central planning, we would all be completely controlled, interned, externed etc by the government and the sad part is we would have voted for the abuse.

It baffles me everytime I hear about peoples faith in government. Haven't they been to a DMV? Haven't the had any legal scuffles due to some inane regulation or law? Haven't they faced the cold apathetic indifference of an incompetent government employee?

Government is a necessary evil I guess. But, people should have the opinion that rather than a fair, just and reasonable entity, government is a blunt force trauma and should be used accordingly, in a very limited manner.



PS: Stop the war on drugs it's a disaster in so many ways it could justify another thread.

[petertribo]

Re: One in 31

Those who hired a lawyer got far less in most cases.( Lesson: always hire a lawyer).

I understand there are reasons for some of the relatively arcane legal procedures, but I also agree a lot of it is merely to ensure anyone not a member of the lawyer cartel can be easily foiled.

They also use a lot of dirty intimidation tricks.

Thanks for the post and your experience. Most people have a theoretical, Hollywood idea of Justice. The reality is far different.

As you say, hire a lawyer and watch out. If you represent yourself, which you are theoretically allowed to do, most Judges will whack you even harder. Most civil and criminal cases, by the way, are relatively simple. The real legal Art is to make them more complicated, that generates more fees, Court time, more $$$ for all the legal folks. A better and very simple system would be to allow self representation on the more simpler cases but that would eat into profits.

As far as the arcane legal procedures, again it is all to generate more money. Lawyers will advise clients to try this or that procedure and the billing time just keeps going up. That procedure fails, let's try this...on and on. (Lawyers, by the way, have been known to intentionally screw up wills with legal language so there will be litigation after the client dies. Without litigation, no fees.)

Most of these folks are masters of intimidation, having practiced it for years on an unsuspecting and vulnerable public.

[antiserf]

Re: One in 31

PS: Stop the war on drugs it's a disaster in so many ways it could justify another thread.

Today's news is more absurd than Sarah Palin promoting abstinance:

Potential Drug Czar's Family Connection To Failed Drug War

And almost as maddening as the drug war is the wide acceptance of the czar term to describe a US government position.

[don]

Re: One in 31

The Criminal Injustice System

By PAUL CRAIG ROBERTS
Ronald Cotton spent 11 years in prison because Jennifer Thompson provided eye witness testimony that he was the person who raped her. On March 9, National Public Radio revisited the story.

It turned out that Thompson was completely wrong, DNA evidence indicated that it was not Cotton but another man who had bragged about the rape.

Thompson asked Cotton for forgiveness, and he gave it. The two became friends and have collaborated on a book. On NPR Thompson said that eye witness testimony is incorrect 70 percent of the time.

I am familiar with psychological studies that conclude that eye witness accounts are wrong half of the time. That is enough to discredit eye witness testimony as evidence; yet, police and juries always bank on it.

Rape victims tend to be angry, and they want someone to pay. When shown mug shots or a lineup, they tend to pick someone, naively believing that if it is the wrong person the police investigation will clear the person.
Witnesses to crimes who are not themselves victims want to be helpful to the police. Consequently, they also tend to deliver up the innocent to justice.

And then there is the purchased “witness” testimony that prosecutors pay for with money and dropped charges in order to close a case. A favorite trick is to put a “snitch” in the cell with a defendant. The snitch then comes forward and reports that the defendant confessed.

Law and order conservatives think that the only miscarriages of justice are effected by liberal judges and liberal parole boards who can’t wait to release dangerous criminals to prey on the public.

The absurd idea that the justice system doesn’t make mistakes about those it convicts, except when they are let off by liberals, has made it impossible for innocent people wrongfully convicted to be paroled.

To be paroled, a person must admit to his crime and go through rehabilitation. Of course, only the guilty admit their crimes, and so only the guilty qualify for parole. Innocent people tend to maintain their innocence.

A case in point is that of William R. Strong, who has been locked away for a dozen years or more for “wife rape.”

According to people familiar with the case, Strong’s wife had a boyfriend and wanted rid of her husband. She accused him of rape. This was prior to DNA testing, but the perp kit still exists.

Strong comes from a patriotic military family. His father was a colonel and Strong served as a lieutenant and has two college degrees. The family trusted America and the police and the justice (sic) system. When advised that Strong would be out in a year if he agreed to a plea bargain, the family, beset with troubles, pressured Strong to accept the deal.
Only it was a double cross. The judge, seeking women’s support, gave Strong 60 years.

That should be enough to wreck marriage in America, or for that matter, heterosexual sex unless there is a signed contract prior to each act.

It seems obvious that Strong was set up, double crossed, and is a threat to no one. Many have recommended his parole. But on February 20 of this year the Virginia Parole Board turned Strong down for the 11th time.

The American criminal justice (sic) system is incapable of admitting that it makes mistakes. The criminology bureaucrats claim that those inmates who proclaim their innocence are in denial and, thus, cannot be rehabilitated and, therefore, remain dangerous. In truth, it is the bureaucrats who are in denial and constitute a danger to justice.

Strong’s insistence on his innocence is doubly problematic for him. Although pressured, he agreed to a plea, and it is very difficult to overturn plea convictions. Strong maintains that the DNA in the perp kit is that of the boyfriend, but his plea allows the state to consider the matter closed.

The criminal justice (sic) system has nothing to do with justice. It is a massive producer of injustice. The agenda is to clear court dockets and to produce high conviction rates. These high rates are achieved through coerced plea bargains.

Strong still believes in America and that justice will win out. I hope he is right.

Law and order conservatives think of the police in god-like terms as “public defenders.” Conservatives could gain more perspective if they watch some of the videos on You-tube of gratuitous police violence, such as this one of a police officer delivering a brutal beating to a 15-year old girl.

A Google search for You-Tube videos of police violence lists 485,000 entries, and these are just the acts captured on camera. How many cops are psychopaths who constitute a greater danger to the public than do criminals? SWAT teams are notorious for breaking down doors at the wrong address and murdering innocent citizens.

Cops are also notorious for framing people as it is easier than doing serious investigation of crimes and collecting evidence. Even the guilty are often framed as that is easier than convicting them on the evidence.

Libertarian free market types believe that the private sector can do everything better than the public sector. This ideology causes libertarians to be blind to the dangerous incentives created by the privatization of prisons.

On February 12, CBS News reported that two Pennsylvania judges have been charged with sending kids to privately operated detention centers in exchange for $2.6 million in payoffs.

State operated prisons don’t want more inmates. The more inmates the more the work and the more the risk that a judge will intervene because of overcrowding.

In contrast, private jails make more money the more inmates they have.
Just think of all the kids whose lives have been ruined by the greedy judges and private prison operators. The judges have been sentenced to seven years on reduced charge plea bargains.

But what about the private prison operators who paid the bribes to have the kids sentenced? Shouldn’t they be put away for life?

The US has the highest incarceration rate and the biggest prison population of any country in the world. With 5 percent of the world’s population, the US has 25 percent of the world’s prison inmates. Recent research by the Pew Center concludes that one in every 31 Americans is in prison or jail or on probation or parole.

So much in America needs to be revamped--the economy, foreign policy, health care, and the criminal justice (sic) system. Does a country broken in so many ways have a future?

Paul Craig Roberts was Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan administration.

[santafe2]

Re: One in 31

Ronald Cotton spent 11 years in prison because Jennifer Thompson provided eye witness testimony that he was the person who raped her. On March 9, National Public Radio revisited the story.

It turned out that Thompson was completely wrong, DNA evidence indicated that it was not Cotton but another man who had bragged about the rape.

I caught this story on 60 minutes over the weekend. It was quite well done and made compelling arguments.

Link here, go to the bottom for the two video segments.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/...n4859708.shtml

[santafe2]

Re: One in 31

One in 31 in Prison, Jail, or on Probation or Parole in US.

I've no proof one way or the other with regard to the above numbers and thankfully no experience with our prison system, but it makes sense that when a government penal system is turned into a for profit, private system, the inmates naturally become customers without choice.

If every customer is forced to spend ~$50k a year with your firm, the last thing you want to do is let them get away. The police are in marketing and judges become brokers. Payoffs to judges seem less dire, brokers get paid a fee.

The environment inside prison becomes more conducive to stress as it becomes too crowded but this crowding leads to illegal behavior which leads to additional time in prison. The company is rewarded for abusing their customers to as great an extent as they can get away with.

This point of view, inmates as customers, helps explain the incarceration of drug offenders and children. Especially a child or drug user who's not in school and doesn't have a job. Once in prison, they're a productive member of society, providing jobs for several other people.

It's obviously a serious problem in the US and one that will have to be addressed at some point. As I think Fred or EJ pointed out some time ago, the economic downturn may speed the release of many non-violent offenders and we'll have to begin to address how we integrate these people into society.

This chart from the DOJ web site shows the dramatic increase in crime as measured by the DOJ. While it only speaks to some 1.3MM people in jail, it does point out that even after allowing for the rise in US population from 1980 to 2005, (30%), the prison population has skyrocketed.
Violence 173k to 687k
Property 89k to 248k
Drugs 19k to 253k, (not a misprint)
Public Order 12k to 98k, (homeless, DWI, etc.)

PrisonPop.jpg

[Munger]

Re: One in 31

Thank god for economic crisises. Were it not for the restrictions of economic reality and the unsustainability of central planning, we would all be completely controlled, interned, externed etc by the government and the sad part is we would have voted for the abuse.

It baffles me everytime I hear about peoples faith in government. Haven't they been to a DMV? Haven't the had any legal scuffles due to some inane regulation or law? Haven't they faced the cold apathetic indifference of an incompetent government employee?

Government is a necessary evil I guess. But, people should have the opinion that rather than a fair, just and reasonable entity, government is a blunt force trauma and should be used accordingly, in a very limited manner.



PS: Stop the war on drugs it's a disaster in so many ways it could justify another thread.

Yes. and unfettered free market is the solution. I've never had a bad experience dealing with an insurance company, mail in rebate, phone/cable company, computer company repair, auto shop, manufacturer's warranty, etc etc. Weee. At least they market efficient at fleecing.

Not that government is necessarily efficient - it obviously is not in many if not most cases.

Completely agree on drug war. Colossal waste of resources.

[Munger]

Re: One in 31

Thanks for the post and your experience. Most people have a theoretical, Hollywood idea of Justice. The reality is far different.

As you say, hire a lawyer and watch out. If you represent yourself, which you are theoretically allowed to do, most Judges will whack you even harder. Most civil and criminal cases, by the way, are relatively simple. The real legal Art is to make them more complicated, that generates more fees, Court time, more $$$ for all the legal folks. A better and very simple system would be to allow self representation on the more simpler cases but that would eat into profits.

It's called small-claims court.

As far as the arcane legal procedures, again it is all to generate more money. Lawyers will advise clients to try this or that procedure and the billing time just keeps going up. That procedure fails, let's try this...on and on. (Lawyers, by the way, have been known to intentionally screw up wills with legal language so there will be litigation after the client dies. Without litigation, no fees.)

You are correct of course. There is no reason for anything. 30 days here, 20 days here, jurisdiction here, no jurisdiction there, res judicata here, collateral estoppel there, inequitable conduct here, stare decisis there. All just buzzwords to confuse the laymen. I'm surprised we've gotten away with this for so long.

[Munger]

Re: One in 31

It is even worse than that:


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009...tention-centre

Justice is just another part of the vast range of American Myths. Judges and Prosecutors in most jurisdictions are political appointees. Where they are "elected" they are held hostage to Politics. In addition, they are all members of a Monopolistic Trade Union along with the lawyers they club and pal around with. The non members of the Monopolistic Trade Union are just meat for the Legal Mill to be squeezed for as much profit as possible. Most positions in this System are revolving door, just like DC Lobbyist/Legislator interchangeability.

Just like Economics, Law has a whole panoply of jargon, theory, practice, methodology, etc. of arcane, ridiculous, unnecessary, useless flim and flam to give the appearance of rationality and logic. Most of it is just who you know or who you can influence, one way or the other.

There is some truth to this. "Fixing" tickets is a joke. A lawyer calls the prosecutor and tells his or her state bar no. The new fine is paid.

Laws do have purpose, apparently of which you are ignorant or incapable of understanding. And all judges I know take their jobs and commitment to impartiality very seriously. I doubt you know any. You might give pause before making blanket assertions on subjects about which you know very little.

And the economic model is such that Judges, Prosecutors, Lawyers and all those "working" in the legal system always WIN since they all get a pay day, one way or the other. The Losers are the citizens held hostage to this Injustice System. Do not enter those Dark Doors Of Injustice.

You may be next so here is a link about about the Litigation Vortex:

http://www.ejfi.org/Courts/Courts-5.htm

More legal stuff in the thread:

Lawyers recount 'Black Thursday'

The Criminal justice system has problems given the lack of funding for your average public defender's office. Your average public defender makes very little for a workload that is completely unmanageable. They are heroes in my opinion for doing a thankless job for far too little pay. Given J6P's general "lock them up and throw away the key" attitude, I don't see how this is going to change anytime in the near future.

The Civil court system is not meant for small sums, granted. Most lawyers do not rake it in as you seem to think though. I think the average is about $60k. Not sure what the average debt is after law school, but I don't doubt it could push $100k.

If you want good representation it is going to cost you. And you do get what you pay for in my experience.

[flintlock]

Re: One in 31

Thanks for the post and your experience. Most people have a theoretical, Hollywood idea of Justice. The reality is far different.

As you say, hire a lawyer and watch out. If you represent yourself, which you are theoretically allowed to do, most Judges will whack you even harder.

I know a guy who tried to represent himself in a divorce/child custody case. He'd hired a lawyer, but ran through his $10,000 retainer and the wife's lawyer got their assets frozen, so no more money to pay the lawyer. They kept dragging him into court on a regular basis for hearing after hearing. Just churning the legal bill big time. He thought he was a smart guy but didn't know the law and of course lost big time. He had this fantasy that the judge would just let him sit up there and tell his story. He was hardly allowed to get a word out. It was kind of funny.

The wife convinced her attorney that her husband was loaded( he wasn't!) and that the lawyer would get paid when she won the case. So she ran up $30,000+ in legal bills and the wife's lawyer never got paid. Neither one had a pot to piss in. Which I found hilarious. The wife's lawyer ended up suing her client.