Antarctic Peninsula is warming quickly

[thousandmilemargin]

Is this a Climate Change website?

What does Climate Change have to do with I-Tulip?

Must every website on the internet be hijacked by debates about the human contribution to global warming?

Why not post in favour of evangelical Christianity, while you are at it, or push your favorite diet?

[vanvaley1]

Re: Is this a Climate Change website?

What does Climate Change have to do with I-Tulip?

Must every website on the internet be hijacked by debates about the human contribution to global warming?

Why not post in favour of evangelical Christianity, while you are at it, or push your favorite diet?

Infrastructure changes that will allocate funds from the FIRE economy to a productive one less dependent on dwindling carbon based energy generation: think that's what it's about.

I suppose carbon based human units generating religiously zealous hot air and...depending upon ones diet...carbon based gasses could be included in the arguments. Though it might be a stretch EJ may frown upon.

[Diarmuid]

Re: Antarctic Peninsula is warming quickly

There is so much evidence that this is a recent and man made change that today, there is no doubt whatsoever. If you believe otherwise, then I suggest you do not remain living close to any sea water, you just might get a very big surprise one morning. personally, I will place my trust in the Independence of the BBC any day.

Here is a link concerning the famed BBC impartiality

http://mydailyclarity.com/2009/01/bb...s-on-the-gaza/

The idea that the BBC is impartial is one propogated most successfully by the BBC - imo they are just better at obsufcating their partiality - AGW Climate warming (sorry its change now) being a topic they are particular partial is a case in point.

The BBC ran a series on the Climate Change which implied the scentific debate had ended and the topic was closed - part of the series heavily used the data and collection methods used by Mann used in the infamous Hockey stick graph (Mann imo should be in jail for this work) the spin in this documentary was sickening and no way engendered any real debate on the issue this is typical of the BBC but they are sliightly more sophisticated then Fox CBC et al but then again that is not too difficult.

Here are some inconvenient possibilities for the AGW religous zealots and the idea that the scientific debate has ended

31,000 academics(among them more than 9000 PhDs)have signed a petition against the catastrophic man-made global warming hypothesis. This petition was an open one. All names of signers and there qualifications have been published.

1) the sun has now been unusually quiet for a long time. The transition from sunspot cycle 23 to 24 is taking a long time. At the end of March the total number of spotless days during this transition stood at 586. The so-called Grand Maximum active solar period last century (which may have caused the warming)has come to an abrupt end. This means cooling. Some scientists have even suggested (in peer-reviewed articles!) that we may be entering a cooling period akin to the Dalton Minimum (1790 to 1830) of the Little Ice Age. (2) The oceanic Pacific Decadal Oscillation has entered a cool phase (these alternating warm and cool phases last on average 25 years.

I personally believe the world is in an ecological crisis but Carbon Credits will do nothing to address the real problems and is nothing more than a further money making racket for the oligarchy.

Cooling would be infinitely worse for the world than warming.

BTW here is a desenting voice on your remark regarding seal levels rising

Rise of sea levels is 'the greatest lie ever told'

The uncompromising verdict of Dr Mörner is that all this talk about the sea rising is nothing but a colossal scare story, writes Christopher Booker.

Christopher Booker
Last Updated: 6:31PM GMT 28 Mar 2009

If one thing more than any other is used to justify proposals that the world must spend tens of trillions of dollars on combating global warming, it is the belief that we face a disastrous rise in sea levels. The Antarctic and Greenland ice caps will melt, we are told, warming oceans will expand, and the result will be catastrophe.
Although the UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) only predicts a sea level rise of 59cm (17 inches) by 2100, Al Gore in his Oscar-winning film An Inconvenient Truth went much further, talking of 20 feet, and showing computer graphics of cities such as Shanghai and San Francisco half under water. We all know the graphic showing central London in similar plight. As for tiny island nations such as the Maldives and Tuvalu, as Prince Charles likes to tell us and the Archbishop of Canterbury was again parroting last week, they are due to vanish.


But if there is one scientist who knows more about sea levels than anyone else in the world it is the Swedish geologist and physicist Nils-Axel Mörner, formerly chairman of the INQUA International Commission on Sea Level Change. And the uncompromising verdict of Dr Mörner, who for 35 years has been using every known scientific method to study sea levels all over the globe, is that all this talk about the sea rising is nothing but a colossal scare story.
Despite fluctuations down as well as up, "the sea is not rising," he says. "It hasn't risen in 50 years." If there is any rise this century it will "not be more than 10cm (four inches), with an uncertainty of plus or minus 10cm"

[Chris Coles]

Re: This is not a Climate Change website

What does Climate Change have to do with Itulip?

Simple answer is that there are severe economic consequences related to ignoring the problem.

[Chris Coles]

Re: Antarctic Peninsula is warming quickly

BTW here is a desenting voice on your remark regarding seal levels rising

Rise of sea levels is 'the greatest lie ever told'

Diarmuid, your dissent is noted.

[thedanimal]

Re: Antarctic Peninsula is warming quickly

My question for AGW skeptics is:

What is your scientific qualification to accept the dissent of a few against the scientific consensus of many? Surely you must have some kind of serious scientific background to assess the reasons why their science is superior.

[Diarmuid]

Re: Antarctic Peninsula is warming quickly

My question for AGW skeptics is:

What is your scientific qualification to accept the dissent of a few against the scientific consensus of many? Surely you must have some kind of serious scientific background to assess the reasons why their science is superior.

Hmm we could ask the same question to EJ and the itulip forum concerning the analysis of the bubble economy when the "scentific concensus" in economics was there was no bubble.

I thought the progression of science was utterly dependent on always questioning the concensus ala Einstein, Kepler, Gauss, Newton etc.

As an AGW skeptic and my own credentials regarding climatology, I have none but I think I am perfectly entitled to hear both sides of the argument and judge on merit rather then accept on blind faith what I am told is the concenus

[BK]

Re: Antarctic Peninsula- 1975 Ice Age Predictions

Everyone here is well read and should know about the Newsweek Cover story about the Coming Ice Age - when the Cover was published in 1975 - here is an excerpt...

"A survey completed last year by Dr. Murray Mitchell of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration reveals a drop of half a degree in average ground temperatures in the Northern Hemisphere between 1945 and 1968. According to George Kukla of Columbia University, satellite photos indicated a sudden, large increase in Northern Hemisphere snow cover in the winter of 1971-72. And a study released last month by two NOAA scientists notes that the amount of sunshine reaching the ground in the continental U.S. diminished by 1.3% between 1964 and 1972. "

http://denisdutton.com/newsweek_coolingworld.pdf

I AM NOT an expert - but, I do think expert are sometimes wrong and are often guilty of having a bias towards where the money flows from......just my cynical-jaded view of a world where any experts opinion depends on where the most money is available.

[Starving Steve]

Re: Antarctic Peninsula is warming quickly

For those who would believe that the world is getting warmer, the all-time record low temperature of 51F (10.5C) at Kahului Airport at sea level on Maui in Hawaii was set Feb 24, 2009. For all those who would argue that this is just one location or one rare morning in Hawaii, please check the monthly temperature data throughout the Hawaiian Islands for this past winter:

http://www.prh.noaa.gov/hnl/

And Hawaii was not alone, the winter of 2009 was unusually cold everywhere in the Northern Hemisphere. The jet stream was pushed so far south that heavy rain storms travelled across central Baja California several times throughout the winter.

[BK]

Re: Antarctic Peninsula is warming quickly-

Steve,

The Cold Winter - an extreme temperature shift and extreme weather patterns are caused by Global Warming......:-)

I'm always surprised to see that Al Gore vanishes from Public appearances from December 25th through May1st - tough to do a presentation on Global presentation when people have to brave the cold temps or clear their driveway of snow/ice before they go see you talk!

[BadJuju]

Re: Antarctic Peninsula is warming quickly

For those who would believe that the world is getting warmer, the all-time record low temperature of 51F (10.5C) at Kahului Airport at sea level on Maui in Hawaii was set Feb 24, 2009. For all those who would argue that this is just one location or one rare morning in Hawaii, please check the monthly temperature data throughout the Hawaiian Islands for this past winter:

http://www.prh.noaa.gov/hnl/

And Hawaii was not alone, the winter of 2009 was unusually cold everywhere in the Northern Hemisphere. The jet stream was pushed so far south that heavy rain storms travelled across central Baja California several times throughout the winter.

There is a difference between short-term weather variations and long-term weather trends. Overall, there is a trend towards warming throughout the world over the past century and a half.

[Diarmuid]

Re: Antarctic Peninsula is warming quickly

There is a difference between short-term weather variations and long-term weather trends. Overall, there is a trend towards warming throughout the world over the past century and a half.

I think many AGW skeptics would concede this however the question in my mind at least is:

The causation of this warming we are told is man made CO2 but why have temperatures decreased / leveled in the preceeding decade and CO2 increased ?. If CO2 is a causative effect then why have temperatures not increased as predicted in the models ?. The sun could be just as likely be a caustive effect, how can one be sure to any degree of certainty in such a dynamic system as the weather, what factors have over arching influencing on it ? - temperatures have always flucuated on the planet and it seems that saying that the current flucuations are caused by man made CO2 is far from decided.

Foremost in my mind however are the proposed solutions for dealing with the crisis - to my mind the Carbon Trading scheme will do nothing to address the so-called Climate Crisis even if CO2 is the causative effect however it will make connected insiders even richer (Al Gore and co.) whom are demonstratively using junk science and scare mongering and said parroted by the shills in the MSM , it seems to me at least to be perpetrating an agenda for their own personal gain. This sets my internal alarm bells ringing as to how genuine the scentific debate is and the motives behind the shills in the MSM continually rabbiting there is a concensus.

[charliebrown]

Re: Antarctic Peninsula is warming quickly

although this sounds like a silly complaint if most of florida is underwater, how are we going to ensure compliance and eliminate cheating in a ghg emission controlled world?

If the u.s. implements a cap and trade system, is china, russia, brazil going to go along with it? In a quick scan of the internet I see electricity rates rising from 7% to 80% under a cap and trade system. Lets assume that a number like 30% is realistic. Can a u.s. widget maker who needs lots of electricty to produce his product compete against countries who do not cap, or who say they are going to cap but dont? who is to say that the u.s. will not cheat after the crap wall street banksters pulled? Will heavy industries relocate to some place where there is no cap?

[Starving Steve]

Re: Antarctic Peninsula is warming quickly

Planet Earth has been warming for the past 10,000 years, otherwise we would still be in the Ice Age and have ice sheets in the Midwest. Happily, the long-term warming has slowed down to almost no change in temperature per century. And little more than this is known about the Earth's long-term climate trend.

We are warmer now than during the Little Ice Age (approx. 1400-1900), but the recent modest warming trend may have ended and been reversed around 1945. Climatologists don't know, and eco-frauds like Al Gore should not claim that they know.

At the height of the Little Ice Age, the Thames River in London used to freeze over in winter. People used to walk on the Thames River, and children used to toboggan in England every winter.

Snow was not unheard of in San Francisco in the 19th C, and as late as 1888, heavy snow was observed on Market Street in downtown SF. Only light dustings of snow have been observed in SF during the 20th C--- and those about every 20 years and only on Twin Peaks, the highest part of the city.

We had tobagganing again in England during the winter of 2008/9.

[santafe2]

Re: Is this a Climate Change website?

What does Climate Change have to do with I-Tulip?

Must every website on the internet be hijacked by debates about the human contribution to global warming?

Why not post in favour of evangelical Christianity, while you are at it, or push your favorite diet?

I think others have answered the why question but it's also a great way for us to hear other iTulipers opinion on a fairly wide range of subjects. I know for example that GRG, C1ue, Starving and others don't agree with my ideas regarding global climate change. But I also know that I read and respect their opinions in other areas so it's great to hear their thoughts on this subject as well.

None of us will ever become reasonable thinkers by discussing subjects with only those who agree with us. To me, that's one of the greatest values of iTulip. There are many excellent minds here with very different points of view. Oh, and that EJ guy isn't bad either...;)