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The Sports World, starting to feel the downturn in the Economy.

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  • #16
    Re: The Sports World, starting to feel the downturn in the Economy.

    I have often wondered why when it comes to Professional Sports, folks are more than willing to tolerate Monopolies, Endless Taxpayer Direct Subsidies, Sports Tax Concessions by both the Fed and States and any other numerous predations by Professional Sports. This also includes trying to juice attendance figures by turning a blind eye to their employees using illegal substances.

    As two examples of many:
    First the New York Yankees (Wall Street's Team) are being questioned regarding land appraisal and possible tax fraud in the construction of the New Yankee Stadium:

    Representative Dennis Kucinich suggested approval for $924 million in tax-exempt bonds for the construction of the new Yankee Stadium could be rescinded, due to some questions about the land's value. He said his probe found "substantial evidence of improprieties and possible fraud by the financial architects of the new Yankees Stadium." Last week, the Daily News' Juan Gonzalez had a column noting the city's assessment of the land worked out to be $275/square foot -- but city assessors previously valued it at $25/square foot. The IRS noted the different valuations ($40 million vs. $204 million) and may investigate further. And speaking of new Yankee Stadium, WCBS 880 went on a tour and took some photos.
    http://gothamist.com/2008/09/19/kuci...sible_frau.php

    That sounds faintly familiar, appraisal fraud. This is very fitting for Wall Street's Team. Then there is the fact that their best player is a confessed drug cheat. Then, of course, the fact that NYC taxpayers have to subsidize the new stadium. Many of them will subsidize it but not be able to afford a ticket to it. Go team go!!

    Not to hit on NYC, but there is also the new stadium for the NY Mets, CITIFIELD:

    When Citigroup (C: 1.24, 0.03, 2.48%) signed a record $400 million deal to secure placement of its name on the New York Mets' sparkling new ballpark, it likely thought the move was a marketing coup.

    Two years and a $300 billion rescue from the federal government later, Citigroup finds itself in a potential public-relations nightmare and a Catch-22 where it is stuck in the deal due to contractual obligations and negative implications of backing out.

    With that in mind, Citi assured FOX Business the new stadium, set to open in April 2009, will keep its pricey moniker: CitiField.

    “We remain committed to our legally binding naming rights and marketing agreement with the Mets. We entered into that agreement two years ago, and it is an important element of our growth strategy with new and existing customers,” said Luis Rosero, a Citi spokesman.
    So here we have a Bank that is in desperate trouble sponsoring a BB team. Not only that but Federal taxpayers may pick up part or all of the sports tab. So, "fans" in Phoenix help to finance their opposition in NY. What a play!

    http://www.foxbusiness.com/story/mar...g-rights-deal/

    Then there are other tax subsidies to both NY teams:

    What a contrast to New York. So far, the Yankees have raised $943 million in tax-exempt bonds, while the city and state have poured $204 million in subsidies into the stadium, with another $300 million subsidy for building parking lots on the way, according to the New York Times. And, apparently, even these enormous allocations and handouts aren't enough. The Yankees are seeking another $350 million in tax-exempt financing.

    The Mets are only slightly less expensive. Their new home, Citifield, has received $166 million in subsidies and had $547 million in credit steered away from other potentially more deserving projects by the use of tax exemptions on bonds. Since 1982, the city has also granted Madison Square Garden a full property tax exemption, which will cost the city $11 million in lost tax revenue during this fiscal year alone.
    http://www.nysun.com/editorials/soci...-sports/80323/

    In terms of stadiums, the above is duplicated in many other cities in the US where taxpayers are often threatened with loss of the team if they do not fork over.

    Sure would be great to see some Free Trade in Professional Sports rather than the socialized model we have now. Hey, Rick Santelli, let's hear you call out your Hometown Chicago Cubs, White Sox, Bears, Bulls, Blackhawks for freeloading off poor, hard working taxpayers.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: The Sports World, starting to feel the downturn in the Economy.

      Originally posted by CanuckinTX View Post
      That's who I'm really going to feel sad for - those poor scalpers. What other industry is there where a completely unnecessary middle man can step in just to charge higher prices and provide no service whatsoever?

      And I'm not talking about something like StubHub where it brings together buyers and sellers, but those scum of the earth that buy up large blocks of tickets for no purpose other than to turn around and sell them for more.

      Good riddance (i hope).
      I'm no fan of scalpers but I've always felt that their existence is indicative of a poor pricing model on the part of the franchise or event manager. If pricing was perfect, every seat would be taken an no one would be left wanting at a given price point. Profits would be maximized.

      Scalpers are opportunistic. If they can buy a block of seats for $50 each and sell them out front for $75 the pricing model is flawed.

      If the event / venue / franchise managers were smart they would effectively do their own scalping, perhaps by having a bidding process for some percentage of the venue seating.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: The Sports World, starting to feel the downturn in the Economy.

        some background on the new Dallas Cowboys Stadium from Wikipedia:

        Originally estimated to cost $650 million, the stadium's current construction cost is in excess of $1 billion, which would make it one of the most expensive sports venues ever built.[8] To aid Cowboys owner and general manager Jerry Jones in paying the construction costs of the new stadium, Arlington voters approved the increase of the city's sales tax by one-half of a percent, the hotel occupancy tax by 2 percent, and car rental tax by 5 percent. The City of Arlington will provide $325 million in funding, and Jones will cover any cost overruns.

        http://www.forbes.com/2008/01/17/foo...7football.html

        Jerry Jones is another true "football billionaire." Fiercely competitive, the owner of the Dallas Cowboys made his first fortune in natural gas in the 1970s after leading the Arkansas Razorbacks to victory in the Cotton Bowl in 1964. He bought the then-junky Cowboys for $158 million in 1989. Jones mentored the team, led by quarterback Troy Aikman and running back Emmitt Smith, to three Super Bowl championships in the 1990s, often standing on the sidelines over the shoulder of his head coaches.

        Today the team is worth $1.5 billion before debt, and nearly all of Jones' $1.5 billion net worth is derived from the Cowboys. Jones recently sold $300 million worth of his personal real estate to help pay for the current construction of a new $1 billion Cowboys Stadium.


        http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...p.40c84e1.html

        The new Dallas Cowboys stadium was predicted to transform its surroundings into a vibrant urban center comparable to Times Square or at the very least Victory Park.

        But the bright lights, restaurants, hotels and pedestrian-friendly shopping district are nowhere to be seen. The severe recession has sabotaged much of the planned development around the $1.1 billion stadium…

        The 1.2 million-square-foot Glorypark retail, residential and entertainment project from Texas Rangers owner Tom Hicks is being redesigned after nine months on the shelf and has no timeline yet. Just a few blocks from the Cowboys stadium, Glorypark was expected to be a center of activity on game days and during the week of the Super Bowl.

        Arlington supporters of the new Cowboys stadium hoped that it would be a catalyst for redevelopment in an area dominated by parking lots, motels, auto sales and repair and retail targeting immigrants. The mixed-use developments and pricey condominiums planned for the area would have targeted the more affluent football fans who could afford tickets that cost as much as a few hundred dollars and seat licenses that cost thousands.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: The Sports World, starting to feel the downturn in the Economy.

          Originally posted by swgprop View Post
          I'm no fan of scalpers but I've always felt that their existence is indicative of a poor pricing model on the part of the franchise or event manager. If pricing was perfect, every seat would be taken an no one would be left wanting at a given price point. Profits would be maximized.

          Scalpers are opportunistic. If they can buy a block of seats for $50 each and sell them out front for $75 the pricing model is flawed.

          If the event / venue / franchise managers were smart they would effectively do their own scalping, perhaps by having a bidding process for some percentage of the venue seating.

          Not exactly. Tickets are priced by location, and not the value that a certain visting team would bring. Ex. Nets play Indiana. Lots of available seats. Nets play Lakers. Not as many. Scalpers load up on the Laker game and only pick up a few for the Pacers. An auction would have to be done well before the game. If the team is doing well the prices would rise. If not prices would fall. The ownership cannot take the chance.

          Btw: Parity in sports has leveled the field. There are no super teams anymore, so in theory everyone has a chance.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: The Sports World, starting to feel the downturn in the Economy.

            Originally posted by cjppjc View Post
            Not exactly. Tickets are priced by location, and not the value that a certain visting team would bring. Ex. Nets play Indiana. Lots of available seats. Nets play Lakers. Not as many. Scalpers load up on the Laker game and only pick up a few for the Pacers. An auction would have to be done well before the game. If the team is doing well the prices would rise. If not prices would fall. The ownership cannot take the chance.
            Exactly, that's one of the issues in the "just raise your ticket prices" solution. That and the fact that you have to price the tickets for season ticket holders as well and it would be tough to have a large discrepancy between the season ticket holders and the general public seats. Price the season tickets too low relative to the general seats and soon everyone will try to buy up season tickets to turn around and sell.

            I was thinking that maybe the IPO process is similar to this since the equity raising company usually leaves a lot of cash on the table for the investment firm clients to scoop up. The difference is they are at least getting the advice and distribution services from the investment banks even if they pay a dear price for it. Ticket scalpers don't provide anything.

            This is an innovative idea for trying to increase ticket sales though. For customers worried about paying for tickets they'll never use it gives them another option. I wonder how many Nets fans really give a hoot about the Panthers though.

            New Jersey Nets, NHL's Florida Panthers set up ticket exchange


            The New Jersey Nets are offering their season ticket holders a chance to catch a little action on the ice.

            The team has partnered with the National Hockey League's Florida Panthers for what's being called the "Snowbird Ticket Exchange."

            Nets season ticket holders who are heading to Florida to escape the frigid Northeast can exchange their unused game tickets for tickets to Panthers games. Panthers fans can do the same if they want to see Nets games in New Jersey.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: The Sports World, starting to feel the downturn in the Economy.

              Originally posted by CanuckinTX View Post
              Exactly, that's one of the issues in the "just raise your ticket prices" solution. That and the fact that you have to price the tickets for season ticket holders as well and it would be tough to have a large discrepancy between the season ticket holders and the general public seats. Price the season tickets too low relative to the general seats and soon everyone will try to buy up season tickets to turn around and sell.

              I was thinking that maybe the IPO process is similar to this since the equity raising company usually leaves a lot of cash on the table for the investment firm clients to scoop up. The difference is they are at least getting the advice and distribution services from the investment banks even if they pay a dear price for it. Ticket scalpers don't provide anything.

              This is an innovative idea for trying to increase ticket sales though. For customers worried about paying for tickets they'll never use it gives them another option. I wonder how many Nets fans really give a hoot about the Panthers though.

              New Jersey Nets, NHL's Florida Panthers set up ticket exchange


              The New Jersey Nets are offering their season ticket holders a chance to catch a little action on the ice.

              The team has partnered with the National Hockey League's Florida Panthers for what's being called the "Snowbird Ticket Exchange."

              Nets season ticket holders who are heading to Florida to escape the frigid Northeast can exchange their unused game tickets for tickets to Panthers games. Panthers fans can do the same if they want to see Nets games in New Jersey.

              I don't see to many people leaving Fla. in the winter to come to NJ. The trip south might work for the Panthers.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: The Sports World, starting to feel the downturn in the Economy.

                Things could be a lot worse for the sports world.

                Imagine if the NBA, NFL, NHL, or the Rollerbladers had to deal with this...

                Pakistan Hunts for Gunmen After Attack on Sri Lankan Cricketers

                March 4 (Bloomberg) -- Pakistan’s security forces are hunting for 12 gunmen who attacked the Sri Lankan cricket team with grenades and rocket launchers, killing six police officers and injuring six members of the squad...

                ...“These were trained killers who were well armed with heavy weapons,” said Salman Taseer, the governor of Punjab province. “It’s the same pattern, the same terrorists who attacked Mumbai.” The U.S. and India have blamed the Pakistan-based militant group Lashkar-e-Taiba for that assault in which 164 people died.

                The attackers struck yesterday morning as the team bus, guarded by policemen on motorcycles and an elite combat unit, neared Gaddafi Stadium for the third day of the second Test between Sri Lanka and Pakistan. A rocket fired at the bus missed and the team escaped as the gunmen and security forces exchanged fire. All 12 attackers escaped, according to police...

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: The Sports World, starting to feel the downturn in the Economy.

                  If you watch baseball highlights these days, you'll see stadiums that appear to have just a few thousand fans in them on a regular basis. Florida, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, San Diego, Pittsburgh, Colorado and a few of these teams in are close playoff chases.

                  The official figures don't tell the truth, this is nothing new of course, but it's off the charts now.

                  Tickets sold, which translates as official attendance in San Diego last night: 15,131. Average "attendance" is listed as 24,121 for this season in that city.

                  If you're curious - watch these highlights

                  From SD last night:

                  http://mlb.mlb.com/media/video.jsp?content_id=6422903

                  Denver:

                  http://mlb.mlb.com/media/video.jsp?content_id=6423769

                  Cincinnati:

                  http://mlb.mlb.com/media/video.jsp?content_id=6414207

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: The Sports World, starting to feel the downturn in the Economy.

                    The Yankees will lower ticket prices for select sections during the first round of the 2009 playoffs.
                    Season-ticket holders with seats in Field Level sections 115-125, rows 12-30, will actually be able to buy ALDS tickets for $50 cheaper than they would have paid during the regular season. And ALDS prices for many other season-ticket holders will remain the same as the regular season cost


                    http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseba...kets-1.1413259

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                    • #25
                      Re: The Sports World, starting to feel the downturn in the Economy.

                      Yeah the owners I'm sure are feeling the pinch but with these leagues run by the unions protecting player salaries it will be a more delayed reaction before they (collectively) feel the pinch.

                      The NHLPA dumped their director this past week because he was 'too cozy' with the NHL and bring in a jerkwad like Buzz Hargrove? Nowhere they're headed but for a long lockout battle. Only thing is the players go into labor lockouts thinking the owners will break, but I think it will be the players that blink much quicker this time. A lot of pro athletes these days live paycheck to paycheck despite pulling in millions.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: The Sports World, starting to feel the downturn in the Economy.

                        Its been proven now for atleast a decade that the tissue box of lies given to sobbing taxpaying non-sports fans who have to subsidize these sports -is indeed a pack oflies.

                        Multiple studies have proven again and again that the community payback for financing any stadium is at best a loss. And in the great American tradition we continue to foster the let the rich get richer- after all its our civic duty to abndon health care, town services, libraries, school funding , senior care and infra-structure by giving billions of dollars to millionaires.

                        I have nothing against sports or millionaires. But I would rather bail out a crack ho with 3 kids then Steinbrenner and the Wilpons everyday.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: The Sports World, starting to feel the downturn in the Economy.

                          Originally posted by CanuckinTX View Post
                          A lot of pro athletes these days live paycheck to paycheck despite pulling in millions.
                          It's the private planes, and all thoses cars.


                          NBA players' financial security no slam dunk


                          "Sixty per cent is a ballpark. But we've seen a lot of guys who've really come into hard times five years after they leave the league," said Roy Hinson, the former NBA forward who's a representative for the players' association.

                          http://www.thestar.com/Sports/article/299119

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: The Sports World, starting to feel the downturn in the Economy.

                            Originally posted by cjppjc View Post
                            It's the private planes, and all thoses cars.


                            NBA players' financial security no slam dunk


                            "Sixty per cent is a ballpark. But we've seen a lot of guys who've really come into hard times five years after they leave the league," said Roy Hinson, the former NBA forward who's a representative for the players' association.

                            http://www.thestar.com/Sports/article/299119
                            The start of this podcast from the same author that wrote the article that started this thread details it for NBA players, plus the NBA and economy in general.

                            http://sports.espn.go.com/stations/p...ast&id=4363833

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: The Sports World, starting to feel the downturn in the Economy.

                              Originally posted by rj1 View Post
                              The start of this podcast from the same author that wrote the article that started this thread details it for NBA players, plus the NBA and economy in general.

                              http://sports.espn.go.com/stations/p...ast&id=4363833

                              I was right, 5 $50,000 cars.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: The Sports World, starting to feel the downturn in the Economy.

                                I am not sure about that. I mean it is weird how although we receive many rivulets of news that show how many professional athletes/entertainment icons are basically ripped off by their financial managers that the general public actually felt the same about them but were too frozen to accept the news from the many many heralds of prophecy!!

                                I mean if you can't manage a 10M into profit -WTF will you do with my pitiful savings ;)

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