U.S. to yield marijuana jurisdiction to states

[Spartacus]

Re: U.S. to yield marijuana jurisdiction to states

Marijuana hasn't really arrived as a legal drug until it is taxed.

That's probably what this maneuvering is in preparation for...

It's a net loss for the government and the economy

1. more, easier pot means fewer drunks, fewer cocaine and meth addicts
2. fewer drunks means fewer car accidents (pot smokers don't aggressively demand to drive) so less economic activity fixing cars
3. less puke in the streets, less work for street cleaners
4. less domestic violence - less furniture to replace, fewer cops needed for domestic calls
5. more tax collectors for pot won't make up for the highly paid DEA agents and
6. fewer busted doors, less broken glass all over the place, fewer bar fights, and
7. Dean Martin will be out of a job, not to mention WC Fields
.......
....
.
100000 a new age of violence-free happiness, contentment and spiritual enlightenment will mean less of the ego-building, pain-numbing consumption that powers the economy, so a longer economic slowdown

So really, the US at the moment cannot afford to legalize pot

[metalman]

Re: U.S. to yield marijuana jurisdiction to states

It's a net loss for the government and the economy

1. more, easier pot means fewer drunks, fewer cocaine and meth addicts
2. fewer drunks means fewer car accidents (pot smokers don't aggressively demand to drive) so less economic activity fixing cars
3. less puke in the streets, less work for street cleaners
4. less domestic violence - less furniture to replace, fewer cops needed for domestic calls
5. more tax collectors for pot won't make up for the highly paid DEA agents and
6. fewer busted doors, less broken glass all over the place, fewer bar fights, and
7. Dean Martin will be out of a job, not to mention WC Fields
.......
....
.
100000 a new age of violence-free happiness, contentment and spiritual enlightenment will mean less of the ego-building, pain-numbing consumption that powers the economy, so a longer economic slowdown

So really, the US at the moment cannot afford to legalize pot

#1 reason why pot is bad... competition for drug #1, favored by pols everywhere...



as users and as payees... yes... it's...



it's big!!!

[Yaowarat]

Re: U.S. to yield marijuana jurisdiction to states

California has been doing a good job on Medical weed for years. Its not grown by the gubment.

I have to praise Obama on this. This is long overdue.

Does Obama

1) Understand the War on Drug is utterly futile and intensifies the problem?

or

2) Or is he and the establishment being forced by economic circumstance to ease up on the War on Drugs ?

I guess we'll never know for sure.

[cjppjc]

Re: U.S. to yield marijuana jurisdiction to states

If it happens in the US it will happen here.

Too bad we had to wait for you. The public votes exist here to get it done but no politician had the courage.

arseholes and scum, ruining peoples' lives for no good effin reason whatsoever.

Arseholes, every last damn one of them

Political pressure from US trade and law enforcement was part of it of course.

Threatening to slow every truck by half an hour is a pretty potent threat.

I'm not holding my breath though. The DEA will fight this every step of the way. they're the ones who've been blocking medical research. I remember reading an interview with a DEA director who claimed the US would have been better of if alcohol prohibition had continued forever. That's the problem when you make drugs illegal. Now you have a massive money-pit bureaucracy with political power that you have to fight tooth and nail if you ever change your mind and want to fix the disaster.

It's the reason they exist. It's how a DEA manager gets promoted. It's how they 've been building their personal empires.

And if Obama does this now, DEA will be there waiting for the next guy to come in and reverse every one of Obama's decisions. They have the infinite money and the infinite patience and the infinite sadism of the bureaucrat who ruins lives by "just doing my job"

DEA has been making power grabs for 40 years. Remember the incident with the "designer drugs" that were about to get every kid in the US addicted? With new drugs that were easy to make and 100 times as addictive as heroin? And the DEA absolutely had to have a law passed giving DEA the power to declare any drug they wanted illegal. The very soul of the US was at stake.

That DEA is still there, waiting. no matter what small sanity comes down temporarily.

The one time mayor of Baltimore, a black man named Kurtis Schmoke was for legalizing marijuana. Vey outspoken at the time. Mid to last 90's. Made a good arguement, and always stood his ground when debating it.

[DToM67]

Re: U.S. to yield marijuana jurisdiction to states

#1 reason why pot is bad... competition for drug #1, favored by pols everywhere...
as users and as payees... yes... it's...
it's big!!!

Yes, it is BIG
Forbes perspective on the value of the Canadian pot trade back in '03

When folks think of lobbyists I suspect most don't think of the anti-pot-legalization lobby, or who's funding it.

Every big alcohol producer, from Bud (Superbowl commercial budget) to Jack Daniels and in between. And in the current economy they'll be SCREAMING foul/fear mongering re:earnings & bankruptcy + the old songs about gateway drugs, etc... Also can't forget big tobacco or big pharma... What? smoke a cigarette when I can get a buzz from pot? And why pay for exorbitant pain meds, anti-nausea preparations, sleep aids or appetite stimulants when pot is available (and not patented... yet! can you say Monsanto?)

How many folks holding shares in Altrea Group (Phillip Morris), Pfizer or similar will want this type of law to go through?

As others have said... we oughtn't to forget policing agencies, who manage to wrangle budgets for all those bodies & nifty toys to go after pot criminals:rolleyes:

When one thinks about how absolutely outrageous it is... The very notion that some entity believes it can tell you or I that we can't grow a plant... in our own homes or yards (for our own consumption) its just mind boggling. Imagine if stoners figured out some way to get high from carrots or tomatoes... Do you think they'd have success banning them? Is it any wonder the war on pot is a lost cause before anyone starts?

Lastly, and perhaps a bit tin foil hat-ish are all the stories that have cropped up over the years about various govt. agencies being involved in covert drug trade. IMO its real... Not foil hattery at all. One of the more recent events is the poppy production in Afghanistan while under control of the Taliban, vs. since. The Taliban had almost eliminated the poppy crop. Since our military's gone in there the crop is back to their old levels & better protected. If we were so damn worried about a war on drugs we'd have burned the crap out of those fields. But instead we got the 'military group' commonly referred to as the Northern Alliance (read opiate producers united).

Whether its wall street, Washington or the local mob they're all gangsters... some just belong to bigger (legitimized) gangs.

[Slimprofits]

Re: U.S. to yield marijuana jurisdiction to states

Or is he and the establishment being forced by economic circumstance to ease up on the War on Drugs ?

I guess we'll never know for sure.

What are you referring to exactly, the sales taxes that dispensaries pay? I haven't heard anything about a DEA budget cut.

As of last week the DEA was still assisting local California LEOs to bust people on the North Coast that grow for dispensaries in the Bay Area and points South. And note that the SFChon article and the administration officials only referred to dispensaries.

They're not going to legalize marijuana. I think Obama wants to be known as the president whose DEA didn't bust the legally (state law) operating dispensaries that sell products to true medical users.

[c1ue]

Re: U.S. to yield marijuana jurisdiction to states

It is possible that the alcohol and cigarette industries are fighting against legalization of Marijuana.

But I doubt it. If I were them, I'd fight FOR legalization, but WITH massive taxes over and above what these two industries already suffer under as well as massive regulatory burden.

Because the net win for alcohol/tobacco is to raise the actual price of marijuana to very high levels. How much are illicit marijuana rolled cigs now vs. Marlboro at $6/pack?

This also helps by bringing the state and federal governments into the picture: disintermediation of the so called drug lords is simply a bonus.

If, on the other hand, you pointed at the prison industry as a major opponent of the fight against legalizing marijuana - that I could believe.

DEA doesn't matter. Either way they're going to be involved in monitoring tax compliance, 'regulatory oversight', and going after all those existing MJ growers and dealers who are already used to not paying taxes and evading the law. Or to say another way - any influence the DEA exerts, the BATF can counteract via its own empire building.

[Yaowarat]

Re: U.S. to yield marijuana jurisdiction to states

What are you referring to exactly, the sales taxes that dispensaries pay? I haven't heard anything about a DEA budget cut.

Oh, don't misunderstand me... the police state goons that feed and profit off the war on drugs haven't gone away.

[bpwoods]

Re: U.S. to yield marijuana jurisdiction to states

Does anyone have a GENUINE answer as to why MJ is a prohibited substance? Nicotine is a very addictive substance and is available for human consumption. Ethanol is a dangerous substance, and it is also available for human consumption. So what is the deal with MJ
Brian P

[cjppjc]

Re: U.S. to yield marijuana jurisdiction to states

Does anyone have a GENUINE answer as to why MJ is a prohibited substance? Nicotine is a very addictive substance and is available for human consumption. Ethanol is a dangerous substance, and it is also available for human consumption. So what is the deal with MJ
Brian P

Well it is somewhat mind altering. More than tabacco that's for sure. Alcohole is also mind altering. So I always feel what a person does is their business. Just don't drive a car under the influence.

[rj1]

Re: U.S. to yield marijuana jurisdiction to states

It is possible that the alcohol and cigarette industries are fighting against legalization of Marijuana.

But I doubt it. If I were them, I'd fight FOR legalization, but WITH massive taxes over and above what these two industries already suffer under as well as massive regulatory burden.

Because the net win for alcohol/tobacco is to raise the actual price of marijuana to very high levels. How much are illicit marijuana rolled cigs now vs. Marlboro at $6/pack?

If marijuana is ever made legal, it would have high taxes. And people that would then illegally grow marijuana to sell it without paying the taxes would be the equivalent of your Appalachian moonshiners in the 1930s and 1940s. Businesses would hop in, grow the product, and the "independents" would get pushed out.

Plus, your tobacco companies would jump in whole hog as they'd see a new revenue source.

"Marlboro Marijuana, for when you want that crisp, cool smoke straight from the Sierra Nevadas."

[Spartacus]

Does anyone have a GENUINE answer as to why MJ is a prohibited substance? Nicotine is a very addictive substance and is available for human consumption. Ethanol is a dangerous substance, and it is also available for human consumption. So what is the deal with MJ
Brian P

Bait and switch.

A small group of people don't want others to use mind altering drugs.

the anti drug laws usually come in with promises that a couple of cops will be able to keep control.

"it will be cheap and easy" (the bait)

The law comes in, the drugs go underground, and crime starts to be associated with the drugs.

This gives the anti-drug forces more "reasons" why "drugs are bad" (this is the switch)- after all, look at all the criminals who are dealing drugs.

They ask for more cops, and they promise with just a little more money, a couple more cops, the drug problem can be wiped out.

In the case of alcohol this bull happened so fast that people noticed - the law came in and the situation got worse.

In the case of narcotics and marijuana it happened slowly. People forgot that at one time heroin users could live a completely normal life. when heroin is legal, no one can point to a person on the street and say "he's a heroin user".

It was only after the heroin became illegal that these people became criminals. The drug gets expensive, you get stung by cops looking to bust you, the drug becomes impure and your health deteriorates.

But again, it took so long to happen that people forgot the original promises - they forgot the original situation, and all they can see now is poisoned, people on the streets, their bodies rotting as society watches. "the people" assume it's the heroin doing it. It's not the heroin. By itself heroin is very non-toxic chemical.

"we'll get rid of the drugs easily. It will be a cakewalk. We'll hire 2 new cops and that will be it". (bait)

Every step of the way the anti-drug forces promise and fail to deliver. their bad results are used to justify more anti-drug laws (the switch). Every step of the way drug users get treated worse and worse and worse - people who would have been doing great things get poisoned and jailed.

I also call this bait and switch "the ratchet". You can probably see why.

In the case of drugs, the law is an ass.

http://itulip.com/forums/showthread....roin#post33645

[bpwoods]

Re: U.S. to yield marijuana jurisdiction to states

cjppjc, Thanks for the reply. Ethanol is indeed a problem; factor in many auto crashes. But it also is a factor in many assaults. Is MJ a factor in auto accidents It may well be, but where is the empirical evidence (in peer-review publications) - so ban alcohol then - oops, been there! Not such a good idea!. Start again. Mj is involved in many assaults

I sense a significant logic deficit somewhere. Maybe its some religious thing. Be a real gas if we found out that Mr Jesus was a 'pot-head' - sort of picked up the habit in his journeys to and from Hindustan.

Seems that there is a lot of explaining to be done by those who advocate prohibition. Keep thinking that Nicotine and Ethanol are seriously harmful substances yet they are tightly regulated for supply for human consumption. Got to be a rational explanation!

About 30% of adult population smoke. Anyone know the stats for MJ Also, not ALL tobacco smokers also use MJ - any WOW (words-of-wisdom) anyone

Brian P

[bpwoods]

Re: U.S. to yield marijuana jurisdiction to states

Spartacus,

Thanks for your reply. The process you describe is completely daft - but depressingly logic and true! So wherein lies the problem Applying reason should lead to regulation not prohibition.

Those who wish to promote the regulation of MJ, or any other currently prohibited substance, should demand that lawmakers explain why they have regulated the sale of firearms, explosives, codeine and morphine sulphate and other toxic pharmaceuticals, yet get their Y-fronts into a twist when people mention MJ.

Is there a case to accuse lawmakers, who oppose the regulation of MJ and other prohibited substances, of ACTIVELY promoting criminal activity and depriving the Inland Revenue of a tax income

Brian P

[Spartacus]

Re: U.S. to yield marijuana jurisdiction to states

Thanks for your reply. The process you describe is completely daft -

paraphrasing Haldane, not only is drug law more daft than you know, it's more perverse than you can possibly imagine.

Here's another tidbit for you - the racist origins of much current drug law

http://books.google.ca/books?id=a8g7...um=1&ct=result

http://druglaw.typepad.com/drug_law_...erview-wi.html