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Re: America on her knees begging China!
such a subtle and brilliant diplomat she is.Originally posted by Mega View Post -
Re: America on her knees begging China!
The truth shall set you free!
Give her some credit for saying what everyone knows but is way to uncomfortable to really say.
Besides, this is how developing nations develop .. on the back of developed nations.
History is littered with examples.
This is how Japan did it, and in fact, how the US did it.Comment
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Re: America on her knees begging China!
yet it is one of those rare truths that when it is spoken by certain persons becomes no longer true.Originally posted by blazespinnaker View PostComment
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Re: America on her knees begging China!
Alas, the phrase "on her knees" is always redolent when it comes to the Clintons . . .
But Mega, you're so eager to see the fall of the U.S. that you twist every story to fit your theme. Urging China to go further into debt to the U.S. is "America on her knees"?
Looks to me as if everyone is on their knees at the moment.Comment
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Re: America on her knees begging China!
Keep Chinese workers in poverty.
Keep printing treasuries to prop up FIRE economy paper.
Keep Western manufacturing in a hole.
Great plan.Comment
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Re: America on her knees begging China!
Don't be so quick to find doom, gloom, and conspiracy around every corner.Comment
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Re: America on her knees begging China!
Prazak, I think you meant to say, "urging China to provide additional credit to the U.S." The U.S. is the debtor in this relationship. Any story that includes Hillary Clinton and something about "on her knees" is way up there on the unintentional comedy scale, no? :pOriginally posted by Prazak View PostComment
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Re: America on her knees begging China!
I did: urging China to extend more debt is what I meant. Thanks.Originally posted by mercerbear View Post
The macro point here, in my view, is that China is in the middle of a Great Leap Backward -- a term that's been applied to its political development in the past year or two, but must now be applied more appropriately to its economic development as well. Of the 100-150 million newly minted members of the middle class, how many millions, or tens of millions, will slip back into poverty? How many will become urban poor and how many will revert to rural poverty? Its export model of economic growth is shattered and won't be put back together anytime soon. Its vast industrialization is quickly becoming structural overcapacity. Riots are becoming increasingly common as are direct challenges to the central authorities, both by regional authorities and private groups.
I think, most unfortunately, that we'll be witnessing a very ugly political and economic era in the world's most populous country (and in a few other developing countries as well) as its authoritarian regime, its last bit of political legitimacy shredded, goes into survival mode as much of its new urban bourgeoisie refuse to go quietly back into poverty.
I won't express any glee over this, however -- contrary to the glee that many on this board express at the prospect of the U.S. suffering a decline.Comment
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Re: America on her knees begging China!
Prazak,
I think you confuse most iTuliper's view that the US is going through a downturn of its own creation with some ideological bent.
As for China - I continue to be amused by the monetarist/Chicago economist school of thinking: the excess productive capacities that China has built - for the purpose of supplying the US and Europe - is somehow going to destroy China?
In contrast the excess credit the US has taken on - now turned debt - is somehow going to help maintain US dominance?
One can be reoriented for other purposes, or even broken up and sold for scrap.
The other is worth less than the electronic zeros it is printed on.
Or let me put this another way: in terms of displacement - which direction is value going to flow?Comment
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Re: America on her knees begging China!
Who exactly built all this excess productive capacity? GM? GE? BASF? Every other over-levered US and European multinational that outsourced its manufacturing jobs? So who is really going to be hurt here; the nation that ends up with the underused assets, or the organizations that hold the debt used to build it?Originally posted by c1ue View Post
Just as the aftermath of the tech bubble created too much bandwidth, and made it very cheap to move voice and data during this decade, better to end up with too many factories, roads, bridges, railways, ports, airports, power plants, etc. than too many banks and law firms.
Like you, I find it hilarious to read back-to-back stories of how too much "productive capacity" is going to drag down China, while building "infrastructure" is going to save the rest of us. The whole thing is a mess. In this globalized world we are all going down [no decoupling as EJ told us], but given the ongoing egregious behaviour of the elites in the developed world, I wouldn't bet against Asia coming out of this in a better long-term position than the developed economies.Comment
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Re: America on her knees begging China!
Another way to put that might be: merely to observe that the industrialising world still has a lot of growing to do, which will unlock a very large "dividend" in productivity rendering dollars they've spent on infrastructure in due course yield 2 or 3 for every 1 spent in the past infrastructure build out. But the mature industrial economies have to re-invent themselves into a new paradigm of industry altogether, because conventional industrial growth no longer gives them a robust dividend.
Faster innate growth due to being only partly industrialised by definition gives the emerging economies the edge coming out of recession.Comment
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Re: America on her knees begging China!
I didn't say anything like "excess productive capacities are somehow going to destroy China". I listed it among the factors that will make life very painful for China in the coming years.
And I said that we are all on our knees.
But, contra GRG55, I wouldn't bet against the U.S. coming out of this in a better long-term position than China.Comment
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