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**Chris** · February 17, 2009, 04:09 AM

Re: Two "unrelated", but related events...

And soon coming to a European city near you...(or near me to be more precise).

**mfyahya** · February 19, 2009, 03:31 AM

Re: Two "unrelated", but related events...

Originally posted by GRG55 View Post

...Swat Valley, 250 kilometers (155 miles) north of the capital, Islamabad, was once a popular tourist destination. Since the fighting began, militants destroyed more than 150 schools and banned education for girls in their area. They also attacked hotels and security forces personnel...

No iTulip reader would rely on the MSM when it comes to economic information, I don't know why they rely on it for Islam related news. Especially during a war situation when propaganda efforts are high. Perhaps it is due to the lack of reliable news sources in English, but here's what I came across today:

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/KB19Df01.html
Meanwhile, all schools in Swat, including girls' schools, were opened on Tuesday and thousands of people flocked to a cricket stadium to greet Sufi Mohammad, who will soon travel to Matta, a sub-district of Swat, to visit his son-in-law Mullah Fazlullah to try to persuade him to end the insurgency. For the first time in many months, all members of the provincial and federal parliament will visit the Swat Valley.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/KB03Df03.html
ATol: This is an ideological and academic debate. You might be right or wrong in your argument. However, the issue is violence. The Taliban are said to have bombed schools and destroyed them. What do you say about that?

MK: Very true. Nobody can prove that we bombed any school building during phase one of the military operations in the Swat

Valley. [Sarcastically] Why did the "well-educated" and "very qualified" Pakistan army set up military bunkers in the schools? This is my question.

If the security forces can set up military bunkers in order to fight against us and against the cause of Islamic laws, we also have the right to retaliate and destroy those schools in which they have set up bunkers, or bridges for that matter.

These are the "well educated" and "very qualified" people of our security forces who bombed our villages and destroyed them. We have, therefore, the right to destroy those schools which brought up this generation, sold out to foreigners and sold their own people to foreigners.

On [the basis of] just one phone call, they handed over our air bases to the enemy. We hate this system and this system of education. As far as school buildings are concerned, I can guarantee you that we can rebuild those buildings within a month [once military operations are over] and at the same time I tell you that not a single child was hurt in our attacks. But I ask you, why was the Islamic seminary Jamia Hafsa targeted in Islamabad [in 2007] and to add salt on the wounds, even female students were killed. Why did they do that? That was also conducted by "very well-qualified generals". Why? On the unrelated note, Bridges TV is a pro-American outfit, most likely encouraged by the establishment as recommended by such RAND reports

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Guest

#4

February 19, 2009, 04:53 AM

Re: Two "unrelated", but related events...

Mfyahya - No need to deposit any comments on the Taliban record of rights for (or respect of) women. They demonstrated it to full effect in all the years they were governing Afghanistan. Any defense of the Taliban as being "misrepresented" on this point is an unenviable task.

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GRG55

iTulip High Commissioner, Select Premium Member, Canada and Persian Gulf

Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 13036

#5

February 19, 2009, 07:23 AM

Re: Two "unrelated", but related events...

No iTulip reader would rely on the MSM when it comes to economic information, I don't know why they rely on it for Islam related news. Especially during a war situation when propaganda efforts are high. Perhaps it is due to the lack of reliable news sources in English, but here's what I came across today:

Quote:

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/KB19Df01.html
Meanwhile, all schools in Swat, including girls' schools, were opened on Tuesday and thousands of people flocked to a cricket stadium to greet Sufi Mohammad, who will soon travel to Matta, a sub-district of Swat, to visit his son-in-law Mullah Fazlullah to try to persuade him to end the insurgency. For the first time in many months, all members of the provincial and federal parliament will visit the Swat Valley.

Good reason for optimism then...

And certainly Pakistan is a situation that could do with a little optimism right about now.

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don

iTulip High Commissioner

Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 11536

#6

February 19, 2009, 09:32 AM

Re: Two "unrelated", but related events...

The important story is Pakistan recognizes semi-autonomy of the Swat Valley, which lies well within her borders.

The US doesn't.

Where does this leave Pakistan's sovereignty? (This is the equivalence of Canada flying armed drones over Utah while railing against polygamy)

US forces to double in Afghanistan.

What's up in the Great Game?

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mfyahya

iTuliper

Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 127

#7

February 24, 2009, 05:51 AM

Re: Two "unrelated", but related events...

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Letters.html
Dear Syed Saleem Shahzad, thank you for yet another trenchant piece on the Pakistan/Afghanistan moral geography [The Taliban get their first wish, Feb 19]. A question: is it your estimate that the Taliban in Swat, in implementing sharia law, are intent on denying girls and women education? If not, are they intent on varying the content of that education? Will they be content to see young women and men studying the Pakistan national educational curriculum (there is one isn't there?) or will they wish to see madrassas [seminaries] only as the fount of all knowledge? Do the answers to these questions depend rather on which Taliban group one is speaking about? I suppose the associated questions I have deal with the countless Dawn, Frontier Post pieces I've read noting how many girls' schools the Taliban have destroyed in Swat, Bajaur, etc. Is it the Pakistani government's propaganda arm at work or the real deal? Thank you for your insights and your writing.
David R Finn (Feb 19,'09)
This is complicated. Apparently, the top leadership of the Taliban in Swat is not against education in general. Nevertheless, they are in favor of modifying the present syllabus to being more Islamic (not necessarily madrassa-oriented). However, there are certain elements within this movement which take a rather ignorant viewpoint and completely reject female education (beyond a level) and want madrassa education only for males. However, things are very ambiguous at present as most of the schools were occupied by the army during the military operation - therefore militants targeted the schools. - Syed Saleem Shahzad (Feb 19,'09)

The Taliban aren't all the same. There is a huge lack of both secular and religious education in the region. Many of those "madrassas" need reforming, but not according to Western ideals. The disrespect for women comes from the rural Pashtun culture, and has nothing to do with Islam. Changing the negative aspects of their culture takes time, education, and an environment of peace. So this ceasefire is a reason for optimism.

As Lukester said, it's an unenviable task to discuss such issues with a Western audience, and I'm not going to bother. It's better to just wait a few years and see if the situation has improved for the locals or not.

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