Collapse of the Economy in 24 hours. . .

[Sharky]

Re: Collapse of the Economy in 24 hours. . .

Then "they" tax the shit out of you and take away everything you have worked so hard to achieve. Does not work. We change the system, or WE ALL BURN!

I agree with you, but there are two huge questions:

1. How do you force change? Voting clearly doesn't work.
2. How to ensure that when the change comes that it's beneficial and not even more damaging?

The more I look into possible answers to those questions, the more uncomfortable I get. I responded to that discomfort by largely withdrawing from the system until things settle down (if they ever do). At the very least I wanted to do what I can to stop feeding the beast.

We'll probably all burn anyway... The beast won't die quietly; it will thrash wildly first -- which is why I left the US when I did, a few years ago. I'll probably still burn in NZ, but if I'm lucky it won't happen as quickly as it would have otherwise.

[Rajiv]

Re: Collapse of the Economy in 24 hours. . .

SantaFe,

The problem is systemic in nature, and cannot be resolved by a few players -- the problem lies in the nature of the game itself!

As long as money is a debt instrument, and the debt carries a time derived income (interest, and compound interest to boot!), and the money supply continues to expand -- at some time, the ability of the system to service the debt collapses -- this can be clearly seen in Hudson's writings.

Once that happens, the system has to reset -- either through some kind of debt jubilee, or through a banking system collapse -- at least that is my understanding of Hudson's writings.

The alternate to compound interest is a fee based and partnership based banking system in the nature of the Wir Bank or the JAK bank

Other solutions have also been proposed for example Silvio Gissel's stamp scrip

[GeraldRiggs]

Re: Collapse of the Economy in 24 hours. . .

To all:

good thoughts here. However, I disagree with some that mortgages should be reset, full recourse, and a second placed on the homeowner for the balance "forgiven". Nothing is foregiven this way. It's just moved from one bucket to another. Put a dress on a pig, it's still a pig!
Unfortunately, politicians do not have the political will or backbone....not even Barrack Obama even though he says he's for change. So far, it's MOTS (more of the same). What is going to happen is the system is going to crash. That will give politicians the "will" to make some changes that needed to be made a year ago or more.

[GeraldRiggs]

Re: Collapse of the Economy in 24 hours. . .

@ metalman:

How can I ask EJ my question? I'd really like to know what to do now?

[GeraldRiggs]

Re: Collapse of the Economy in 24 hours. . .

Itullos

I agree with you. The banksters just told the congressman something to scare the shit out of them to get what they want. Not the first time this has happened. I will almost guarantee there was no $550B withdrawal in an hour. where would it go.....under the matress?

[GRG55]

Re: Collapse of the Economy in 24 hours. . .

@ metalman:

How can I ask EJ my question? I'd really like to know what to do now?

There's an "Ask EJ" section under "iTulip Select".

[labasta]

Re: Collapse of the Economy in 24 hours. . .

Anyone remember the liberty dollar and the FBI?

http://www.coinlink.com/News/gold-si...berty-dollars/

I had high hopes for the liberty dollar, but was surprised it had lasted as long as it did.

Taking FED dollars out of deposit would crash the system, but what then? Interesting.

[labasta]

Re: Collapse of the Economy in 24 hours. . .

Guys. You're more informed than me about these things.

Where can I deposit money without going to a bank? I can't keep it under a mattress for security reasons. I remember EJ mentioning a few options about a year ago. I can't find that article now. It would be interest free of course.

Is there any place that doesn't participate in fractional reserve lending?


Also, I don't fully understand the process of debt being monetarized.

The FED lends to banks who make up around ten times as much money who lend to customers. Customers deposit the made up money back to the banks who make up even more money based on the orignal fake money ad nausem. If you take out the customer deposits, but kept the customer lending going from the first fractional reserve creation, the Fed would have to keep making up new money to keep the lending going. Is this feasible?

Where am I going wrong?

[jtabeb]

Re: Collapse of the Economy in 24 hours. . .

I agree with you, but there are two huge questions:

1. How do you force change? Voting clearly doesn't work.
2. How to ensure that when the change comes that it's beneficial and not even more damaging?

The more I look into possible answers to those questions, the more uncomfortable I get. I responded to that discomfort by largely withdrawing from the system until things settle down (if they ever do). At the very least I wanted to do what I can to stop feeding the beast.

We'll probably all burn anyway... The beast won't die quietly; it will thrash wildly first -- which is why I left the US when I did, a few years ago. I'll probably still burn in NZ, but if I'm lucky it won't happen as quickly as it would have otherwise.

Try try try, I'm stupid enough to believe that if I challange people's mis-perceptions of this disreality on a daily basis, that they will see the light and that if they can then do the same, we can "go critical" as it were.


On a side note, how much would a nice farm in NZ with a nice house and a view with access to water (well or running) run me these days?(between 20-80 Acres)

[a warren]

Re: Collapse of the Economy in 24 hours. . .

You could buy something like that for NZD1m. fx rate about USD$1 = NZD 50c. But, and this is very important, you would not be welcome here with your guns and your god. We dont need or want that stuff, sorry. Leave the guns and god behind - Welcome!

Try try try, I'm stupid enough to believe that if I challange people's mis-perceptions of this disreality on a daily basis, that they will see the light and that if they can then do the same, we can "go critical" as it were.


On a side note, how much would a nice farm in NZ with a nice house and a view with access to water (well or running) run me these days?(between 20-80 Acres)

[Sharky]

Re: Collapse of the Economy in 24 hours. . .

Try try try, I'm stupid enough to believe that if I challange people's mis-perceptions of this disreality on a daily basis, that they will see the light and that if they can then do the same, we can "go critical" as it were.

I used to be that way. The more people I talk to, the less hopeful I become. Most don't get it, and even those that do don't see anything wrong with the system.

On a side note, how much would a nice farm in NZ with a nice house and a view with access to water (well or running) run me these days?(between 20-80 Acres)

Prices cover a wide range, depending on location and many other details. Here's a link to a 34 acre farm in Canterbury with a 4BR house for NZ$795K -- about US$415K:

http://www.realestate.co.nz/927907

[Sharky]

Re: Collapse of the Economy in 24 hours. . .

Where can I deposit money without going to a bank? I can't keep it under a mattress for security reasons. I remember EJ mentioning a few options about a year ago. I can't find that article now. It would be interest free of course.

The scenario you've described is exactly why gold does well in a depression.

32 oz of gold -- about US$30K worth -- fits in a cylinder about 2.2 inches high and 1.4 inches in diameter. Ten of them would be $300K; about 33 for $1M. It's small enough to be easily hidden.

If you're not comfortable having it at home, then consider a vaulted storage company with allocated storage. I like BullionVault, but there are others.

Is there any place that doesn't participate in fractional reserve lending?

There's the Lakota Bank: http://www.freelakotabank.com/

The FED lends to banks who make up around ten times as much money who lend to customers.

Not quite. It goes more like this: Customers first go their banks and request loans. That process eventually draws in reserves from the Fed. Although the 10% reserve requirement can result in up to nine times as much money being created as there are bank reserves, that's for the banking system as a whole. Also, the effect of reserve requirements has been diminished over the last few years due to things like sweeps.

Customers deposit the made up money back to the banks who make up even more money based on the orignal fake money ad nausem.

Not ad nauseum. There's a limit based on reserve requirements, bank capital requirements, etc. The factor-of-nine multiplier is only applied once to bank reserves, not repeatedly. Only the government can create new reserves.

If you take out the customer deposits, but kept the customer lending going from the first fractional reserve creation, the Fed would have to keep making up new money to keep the lending going. Is this feasible?

No. If customers take out their deposits, the system collapses. To do that would be a run on the bank.

[DToM67]

Re: Collapse of the Economy in 24 hours. . .

...Not ad nauseum. There's a limit based on reserve requirements, bank capital requirements, etc. The factor-of-nine multiplier is only applied once to bank reserves, not repeatedly. Only the government can create new reserves...

Is this the scenario you are suggesting be employed, or are you describing the existing system? I ask because IIRC there were institutions using reserves of 1 to 50 or worse.

IMO the situation is most likely worse than what's being reported - both in lack of capital reserves, as well as how many institutions are severely over-leveraged.

[Sharky]

Re: Collapse of the Economy in 24 hours. . .

Is this the scenario you are suggesting be employed, or are you describing the existing system? I ask because IIRC there were institutions using reserves of 1 to 50 or worse.

I'm talking about the existing system. Yes, the actual multiplier is larger than the 9:1 implied by the 10% reserve requirement, due to sweeps and other forms of creative accounting. I haven't heard 50:1, but I have heard 30:1. Regardless, in some sense the exact number doesn't matter.

IMO the situation is most likely worse than what's being reported - both in lack of capital reserves, as well as how many institutions are severely over-leveraged.

I definitely agree.

My sense of it, after having digging deeply into the Fed's reports for a few months, is that the entire banking system is dead -- and not just sick, but dead. It can't be repaired with inflation alone. All bank capital has effectively been lost, plus much more. The system has already collapsed, and the Fed, Congress and the Treasury are just scrambling to keep it from becoming obvious. Appearances are crucial, since what little remains of the system totally relies on public confidence.

[lakedaemonian]

Re: Collapse of the Economy in 24 hours. . .

You could buy something like that for NZD1m. fx rate about USD$1 = NZD 50c. But, and this is very important, you would not be welcome here with your guns and your god. We dont need or want that stuff, sorry. Leave the guns and god behind - Welcome!

Maybe check with the rest of us before you speak on behalf of all of us in New Zealand

Freedom to practice religion(or not) and the freedom to enjoy hunting and shooting(or not) in New Zealand helps make this such a fantastic country.

I, alongside many New Zealanders, may or may not practice/enjoy both at levels similiar to the US...we just don't talk about it so openly.

All the churches/mosques/temples/licensed firearms owners in NZ is a bit of an obvious giveaway

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Now would be a good time to start LOOKING for property in NZ from overseas.......buying? I'd wait another 6-24 months...as both property prices and the Kiwi fall further.