The Whole World Is Rioting as the Economic Crisis Worsens -- Why Aren't We?

[deflateIT]

Re: The Whole World Is Rioting as the Economic Crisis Worsens -- Why Aren't We?

http://www.alternet.org/module/printversion/124836

Reporting from the Baltics here. I am currently in Estonia, however keeping a close eye on Lithuania and Latvia. The riots are over-hyped by the media. I think the real riots are still ahead of us. I don't consider 100 people throwing snowballs at the police THE RIOT. It will absolutely be Argentina #2 over here. To reveal the ugly face of the true depression it will still take another month or two. But it is getting very very close.

[Andy]

Re: The Whole World Is Rioting as the Economic Crisis Worsens -- Why Aren't We?

Forgive me, but I don't read all this stuff, but if not mentioned already, another reason is we just had an election in which Obama was the recipient of a lot of people's HOPE. Now being good US'ers, I expect many people feel obligated to give him a chance to bring about whatever it is they were hoping for. With Geithner and Daschle selections and approvals, I'd say the early picture is one of more of the same.

I does make me wonder though, what could happen if/when desperation starts overtaking hope in some densely-populated and poor area.

[jacobdcoates]

Re: The Whole World Is Rioting as the Economic Crisis Worsens -- Why Aren't We?

i was one of the hopeful. but after rubin, summers, & geithner, i'm now among the resigned.

Don't resign metalman, Why resign yourself to a fate chosen by people who are certifiable idiots. The riots are coming that is for sure, I agree Judas, Americans have a long fuse unfortunately it is attached to a stick of dynamite, everything seems fine until it ain't. It is an "all in" proposition, armed rebellions always are. Remember that the police are not soldiers nor will they be completely for the current status quote either, you would have police defect as well as Army units defect in a rebellion. What most people don't know is half the (real)machine guns in America(including the ones the U.S. army has) are owned by private citizens, with 25 billion rounds and with 46 million veterans there is more than enough experience to go around. A Couple of combat brigade are enough to quell a small civil action, but if the ball got rolling they would not be enough. Just ask the guys in Iraq. 125k troops + 10 billion a month - 50 million angry people = bad. A political solution brought that mess under control. 300k troops + infinite amount of money - 100 million very pissed of people with guns = nightmare. Lets all hope for a little longer that Obama gets on the right side of thing soon.

[rj1]

Re: The Whole World Is Rioting as the Economic Crisis Worsens -- Why Aren't We?

he means conning a generation of american middle class into putting their life savings into gov't sponsored bubbles in stocks and housing, then wiping out those savings when the bubbles crash.

People are responsible for their own actions. The idea of saying some government or organization deserves 100% of the blame, while appealing to populists, is flat wrong. There is the item of individual responsiblity.

[bigchiller]

Re: The Whole World Is Rioting as the Economic Crisis Worsens -- Why Aren't We?

Don't resign metalman, Why resign yourself to a fate chosen by people who are certifiable idiots. The riots are coming that is for sure, I agree Judas, Americans have a long fuse unfortunately it is attached to a stick of dynamite, everything seems fine until it ain't. It is an "all in" proposition, armed rebellions always are. Remember that the police are not soldiers nor will they be completely for the current status quote either, you would have police defect as well as Army units defect in a rebellion. What most people don't know is half the (real)machine guns in America(including the ones the U.S. army has) are owned by private citizens, with 25 billion rounds and with 46 million veterans there is more than enough experience to go around. A Couple of combat brigade are enough to quell a small civil action, but if the ball got rolling they would not be enough. Just ask the guys in Iraq. 125k troops + 10 billion a month - 50 million angry people = bad. A political solution brought that mess under control. 300k troops + infinite amount of money - 100 million very pissed of people with guns = nightmare. Lets all hope for a little longer that Obama gets on the right side of thing soon.

And don't forget that we have a population of wealthy citizens with Hummers and big SUVs in their driveways. These can easily be turned into military vehicles.

[GRG55]

Re: The Whole World Is Rioting as the Economic Crisis Worsens -- Why Aren't We?

http://www.alternet.org/module/printversion/124836

This is a ridiculous statement...

"...It's also the case that European societies tend to be more homogenous than the mishmash of tribes we call the United States. Whereas Americans are divided by religion, region, ethnicity, urban-rural tensions and all the other trappings of the "culture wars," the primary split in most European countries is class..."

Don't know what "homogenous European societies" this author has been spending his time in, but he needs to sign on with a new travel agent...one who won't send him to those all inclusive Club Med resorts where you can say you've "been to a country", but you never actually interact with any of the locals other than the chambermaid.

[Digidiver]

Re: The Whole World Is Rioting as the Economic Crisis Worsens -- Why Aren't We?

Related article: The economic crisis could plunge the U.S. into a long period of social instability. Our democracy is in peril; the threat of totalitarianism is real.

http://www.alternet.org/workplace/12..._be_ok/?page=1

“The basic systems are going to stay in place; they are too powerful to be challenged,” Wolin told me when I asked him about the new Obama administration. “This is shown by the financial bailout. It does not bother with the structure at all. I don’t think Obama can take on the kind of military establishment we have developed. This is not to say that I do not admire him. He is probably the most intelligent president we have had in decades. I think he is well meaning, but he inherits a system of constraints that make it very difficult to take on these major power configurations. I do not think he has the appetite for it in any ideological sense. The corporate structure is not going to be challenged. There has not been a word from him that would suggest an attempt to rethink the American imperium.”
Wolin argues that a failure to dismantle our vast and overextended imperial projects, coupled with the economic collapse, is likely to result in inverted totalitarianism. He said that without “radical and drastic remedies” the response to mounting discontent and social unrest will probably lead to greater state control and repression. There will be, he warned, a huge “expansion of government power.”
“Our political culture has remained unhelpful in fostering a democratic consciousness,” he said. “The political system and its operatives will not be constrained by popular discontent or uprisings.”
Wolin writes that in inverted totalitarianism consumer goods and a comfortable standard of living, along with a vast entertainment industry that provides spectacles and diversions, keep the citizenry politically passive. I asked if the economic collapse and the steady decline in our standard of living might not, in fact, trigger classical totalitarianism. Could widespread frustration and poverty lead the working and middle classes to place their faith in demagogues, especially those from the Christian right?

[vanvaley1]

Re: The Whole World Is Rioting as the Economic Crisis Worsens -- Why Aren't We?

Thanks for the site. That's one depressing analysis. Guess we'll know in a short period of time how formitable or impotent this administration is gonna be regarding financial and corporate interests. Two articles on http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/ seem to lean toward the impotent theory if they are spot on: "This Way Lies a Catastrophe" and "The Bad Bank Asset Proposal Even Worse Than You Imagined"

Will be interesting to see the public reaction to a continued 'cave in' to the banking industry.

[BlackVoid]

Re: The Whole World Is Rioting as the Economic Crisis Worsens -- Why Aren't We?

The Whole World Is Rioting as the Economic Crisis Worsens -- Why Aren't We?


It's too cold.

[BlackVoid]

Re: The Whole World Is Rioting as the Economic Crisis Worsens -- Why Aren't We?

This is a ridiculous statement...

"...It's also the case that European societies tend to be more homogenous than the mishmash of tribes we call the United States. Whereas Americans are divided by religion, region, ethnicity, urban-rural tensions and all the other trappings of the "culture wars," the primary split in most European countries is class..."

No, it is not. It is actually quite true. I live in Europe.

[vanvaley1]

Re: The Whole World Is Rioting as the Economic Crisis Worsens -- Why Aren't We?

The Whole World Is Rioting as the Economic Crisis Worsens -- Why Aren't We?


It's too cold.

Not out here in California. Though there's a rising tide of discontent that the politicians are starting to experience it ain't enough. We ought to be burning effigies of our politicians out here for the mess they've managed to create. This state is just too laid back.

[GRG55]

Re: The Whole World Is Rioting as the Economic Crisis Worsens -- Why Aren't We?

No, it is not. It is actually quite true. I live in Europe.

Every time I went for walk in any major urban park in a European city on a weekend, the one thing that I always noted was the majority of languages spoken were not the native tongue of whatever country I was in. Geneva, Paris, Frankfurt, and especially London. Go for stroll in Hyde Park on Sunday afternoon. The only language you almost never hear spoken is...English.

[ProdigyofZen]

Re: The Whole World Is Rioting as the Economic Crisis Worsens -- Why Aren't We?

GRG thats because of the massive immigration to europe from Africa and the Middle East/India. historically speaking those european countries have been more or less very homegenous. That is what he is referring to. Its only been in the last 100 years that this has changed more than anytime in history aside from a country being taken over in war etc.

Look at this even Muammar Qaddafi "gets it"

"By Jason McLure
Feb. 4 (Bloomberg) -- Libyan leader Muammar Qaddafi, the
new chairman of the African Union, closed a summit of African
leaders with a rebuke of democracy, a principle that is
enshrined in the continental body’s founding charter.
The 66-year-old leader, who has ruled Libya for four
decades, told delegates at the summit in Ethiopia’s capital,
Addis Ababa, that the multiplicity of ethnic groups made the
continent an unsuitable place for democratic government. He
cited post-election violence in Kenya last year between members
of the Kalenjin, Luo and Kikuyu communities as examples of how
votes in African countries can lead to violence.
“After elections there are massacres as happened in
Kenya,’” Qaddafi said. “This makes us skeptical with regard to
this multiparty system that we imported. Our parties are tribal
parties and that’s led to bloodshed.”
Qaddafi is the first North African leader to hold the top
post at the AU since it was established in 2002. He was elected
by popular acclaim behind closed doors at the organization’s
summit on Feb. 2. The AU’s constitutive act says one of its"

[ProdigyofZen]

Re: The Whole World Is Rioting as the Economic Crisis Worsens -- Why Aren't We?

Obama is part of the problem, no way near the solution. most intelligent in that last couple decades? Give me a break, he is "really" really really good at telling people what they want to hear, talking out of both sides of his mouth. A snake oil salesman is what comes to mind when I think of Obama.

[Jim Nickerson]

Re: The Whole World Is Rioting as the Economic Crisis Worsens -- Why Aren't We?

Obama is part of the problem, no way near the solution. most intelligent in that last couple decades? Give me a break, he is "really" really really good at telling people what they want to hear, talking out of both sides of his mouth. A snake oil salesman is what comes to mind when I think of Obama.

And give me a short list of other politicians who are significantly different from Obama, and I am not picking on Obama nor supporting him.