Fire Economy De-programming Toolkit

[vinoveri]

Re: Fire Economy De-programming Toolkit

- explain how this has led us to the present predicament where the "greater fool" theory leads logically to the state becoming the only possible bagholder for the system by taking over-priced assets out of private hands at above market prices because they hold the economy hostage

I really like this summary statement of how it came to this point (although I don't agree that it's a necessary outcome) - the taxpayer is the last greater fool making him and her the greatest fool. Remember, there are lots and lots of "lesser fools" who made out to a greater and lesser degree during the boom.

The economy being held hostage is a a misrepresentation by the fear mongering extortionists; what they mean by economy is the "current system". People have been working, creating, trading, buying and selling since time immemorial. The absence of mega-banks and wall street investment banks will not wreck economy, but will wreck the corrupt system that we've come to know as "the economy".

Once americans left the farms for urban areas to work in factories, the death knell sounded for a nation of "independent" and self-reliant individuals. The vast majority simply do not have the means or know how to survive without the system which we have built for better and worse.

Having 3 acres and cow used to be (and for now still is) an indication of poverty, but its looking pretty good right now to me.

[World Traveler]

Re: Fire Economy De-programming Toolkit

I subscribe to the AA rock-bottom theory. Alcoholics have to hit their personal version of "rock bottom" before they desire to change. They were meeting some personal need by drinking and that has to be overcome by the horror of hitting rock bottom. Until that point, they really won't listen to you and don't want change.

Above theory helped me understand why so many people were not seeing the world as it really is - I started reading iTulip in 2000 and Michael Hudson in 2003, so I haven't had any illusions for a long time. But most friends and family did, and did not want to listen me.

The U.S. citizenry is in the process of hitting rock bottom. Due to the stock market and housing crashes, they're not as rich as they thought they were, and on an asset basis an increasing number are in negative net worth. And now they are losing their jobs in great numbers.

Hope is the last to go, but even that is starting to fade. So they are angry and want change.

I believe we will see some changes, and that Wall Street and the banksters will be reined in to some extent. Because the populace no longer trusts them and because the government must respond to this anger.

The real question is how much change will we see. I believe Washington, now the big player, will to try to patch up and fix the current system so it is a little more equitable. If that doesn't work, they will just keep experimenting till they find what works.

How much and how far away from today's system they have to experiment to patch things up, will create the new world we will live in.

What will that new world look like? Question can't be answered yet, we're still too early in the game.

[GRG55]

Re: Fire Economy De-programming Toolkit

...You have to let it and yourself go. It is the only way that it, and you, can make the leap necessary to see things how they are vs. seeing things the way that others want you to see them. (In my personal experience, anyway.)

jtabeb: I only have one question. How many G's were you pulling?

[politicalfootballfan]

Re: Fire Economy De-programming Toolkit

----nm----

[Rajiv]

Re: Fire Economy De-programming Toolkit

Oddlots,

I would start with The Crash Course -- follow it up with The Most IMPORTANT Video You'll Ever See , Money as Debt and then follow it up with some of Hudson's work.

I think in some ways these videos help lay the groundwork for understanding what is happening today. If you want to follow up on the basic corruption in the system today, you may want to look at the thread Wall Street: Crime of the Century. Also useful - in the same vein Ricardo's Law - The Great Tax Clawback Scam

[open4]

Re: Fire Economy De-programming Toolkit

But we still have the paradox that insufficient money exists to pay interest on ''self liquidating debt'' unless the debt is interest free,

[*T*]

Re: Fire Economy De-programming Toolkit

1. Turn off the television and bin the newspapers
2. Ask 'why?' a lot
3. Try to answer 'why?' yourself
4. Have courage

[raja]

Re: Fire Economy De-programming Toolkit

The public is suffering from a psychosis similar to that of a battered wife. Any decision to move toward "escape" and away from their co-dependency on this abusive system must come from the individual themselves.

For people to accept what is happening, they will have to admit that they've lost a huge chunk of their wealth (for those invested in the stock market, that is).
They don't want to do that.
Thinking that what's going on is a temporary glitch, and hoping for a return to "normalcy", is much less painful . . . .

[oddlots]

Re: Fire Economy De-programming Toolkit

But we still have the paradox that insufficient money exists to pay interest on ''self liquidating debt'' unless the debt is interest free,

I'm not sure what you're driving at here. If you're pointing to periods of negative real interest rates this is an interesting point. But I don't think it's fatal to the argument. At the risk of acting like an economist - someone who, when confronted with a mechanism that works in the real world asks smugly, "Ahhh, but does it work in theory" - it seems to me that in theory the economy can get driven so far out of wack by its reliance on asset price bubbles that enough overcapacity is produced to almost make investment unprofitable in aggregate. (Have you seen those photos of empty malls in China.) One of the striking experiences of investing in the last few years is the realisation that there is no-where to hide (except reverse ETFs and (hold nose) treasuries. It's the other guy's leverage that gets you. Similarly - if you are pointing to negative real rates - I think its wrong to think these are somehow "market based" in anything but a procedural sense.

[oddlots]

Re: Fire Economy De-programming Toolkit

Oddlots,

I would start with The Crash Course -- follow it up with The Most IMPORTANT Video You'll Ever See , Money as Debt and then follow it up with some of Hudson's work.

I think in some ways these videos help lay the groundwork for understanding what is happening today. If you want to follow up on the basic corruption in the system today, you may want to look at the thread Wall Street: Crime of the Century. Also useful - in the same vein Ricardo's Law - The Great Tax Clawback Scam

Thanks Rajiv,

It's funny I watched the Crash Course again this week and I seem to recall Martenson talking about Bartlett in probably the most interesting and compelling part of his talk. The link to Bartlett lecture looks like gold to me but haven't gotten to it yet. Others I will follow up on. Thanks for the resources.

[strittmatter]

Re: Fire Economy De-programming Toolkit

Thanks Rajiv,

It's funny I watched the Crash Course again this week and I seem to recall Martenson talking about Bartlett in probably the most interesting and compelling part of his talk. The link to Bartlett lecture looks like gold to me but haven't gotten to it yet. Others I will follow up on. Thanks for the resources.

You've gotten some hellacious feedback here odd. It's great. Funny how the answer lies within the answer......baby steps......etc. Couple months ago I "handpicked" two local friends whom I thought would be receptive to the depth and weight of Crash Course and Bartlett. I told them, not ask, but told them to find enough quiet time no matter what, and watch both. They have since passed-it-on in the same manner.

I always liked Malcom Gladwells, "Tipping Point" http://books.google.com/books?id=MMl...um=5&ct=result
after reading the book I ordered the audio and would play it continuously while driving for about six months straight.