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**GRG55** · January 28, 2009, 10:16 AM

Re: Canada budget sees C$85 billion deficit over 5 years

Originally posted by LargoWinch View Post

Keynes is alive and well.

It seems that surpluses are clearly out of fashion. It is now time to spend other people's money.

(yes, I am greatly disapointed by this crappy budget and no, I do not think the deficit will be "only" $85B, I assume at least 2x as much. What a shame).

-W.

OTTAWA, Jan 27 (Reuters) - The government of Canada predicted on Tuesday budget deficits totaling C$85 billion ($69 billion) over five years - the result of a recession and a C$40 billion two-year stimulus package packed with infrastructure spending, tax cuts and targeted loans.

The spending plan, which Ottawa says would boost gross domestic product by 1.4 percent this year and create 190,000 jobs by 2011, pushes Canada into a C$1.1 billion budget deficit in the current 2008-09 fiscal year, which ends in March, after 11 straight years of surplus.

http://www.reuters.com/article/usDol...43062120090127

Budget overview here (funny they use the smoke and mirrors "Debt to GDP ratio, what a joke):
http://www.cbc.ca/news/interactives/cp-budget2009/

LW: Are you as amused as I am that the same political characters that are first in line to accuse the government [any government] of fraternising too closely with the dreaded Americans, are now falling all over themselves because the budget isn't enough like "what Obama is doing"?

I keep thinking to myself that if these commentators are so infatuated with what is going on in the USA, they should just move there...

**Spartacus** · January 28, 2009, 05:56 PM

Re: Canada budget sees C$85 billion deficit over 5 years

When the vote tallies came in I thought the NDP & Liberals would form a coalition. I told my housemates the same thing. Not necessarily that they should, but that they would.

I didn't vote - I used to like Joe Clark (so sue me) and I liked Bob Rae (the Liberal rep for my riding) for a week, a tiny bit for the one time he smacked down the unions, but now I can't stand any of them.

Anyway, Harper claimed the parliamentary no confidence vote was invalid because we're in a democracy. No, Steven. No confidence votes and Coalitions happen ALL THE TIME in most parliamentary democracies. Canada is one of the exceptions that has not had these yet, but the rules are the same as for countries that have them often.

When those Tory radio ads came up the concensus among my debate group (including several tories) was, Harper should stop mis-representing the way the Canadian government works, or move to the US

So it's funny what you wrote ... we were thinking the same about Harper.

Originally posted by GRG55 View Post

LW: Are you as amused as I am that the same political characters that are first in line to accuse the government [any government] of fraternising too closely with the dreaded Americans, are now falling all over themselves because the budget isn't enough like "what Obama is doing"?

I keep thinking to myself that if these commentators are so infatuated with what is going on in the USA, they should just move there...

PS- I used to hope (well, I still do ... ) that Ignatief would go without shaving for a while and be mistaken at an airport for an ay-rab & get deported to Gitmo. A poetic, just deserts kind of fing.

**GRG55** · January 28, 2009, 11:15 PM

Re: Canada budget sees C$85 billion deficit over 5 years

Originally posted by Spartacus View Post

When the vote tallies came in I thought the NDP & Liberals would form a coalition. I told my housemates the same thing. Not necessarily that they should, but that they would.

I didn't vote - I used to like Joe Clark (so sue me) and I liked Bob Rae (the Liberal rep for my riding) for a week, a tiny bit for the one time he smacked down the unions, but now I can't stand any of them.

Anyway, Harper claimed the parliamentary no confidence vote was invalid because we're in a democracy. No, Steven. No confidence votes and Coalitions happen ALL THE TIME in most parliamentary democracies. Canada is one of the exceptions that has not had these yet, but the rules are the same as for countries that have them often.

When those Tory radio ads came up the concensus among my debate group (including several tories) was, Harper should stop mis-representing the way the Canadian government works, or move to the US

So it's funny what you wrote ... we were thinking the same about Harper.

PS- I used to hope (well, I still do ... ) that Ignatief would go without shaving for a while and be mistaken at an airport for an ay-rab & get deported to Gitmo. A poetic, just deserts kind of fing.

Best move from any Canadian Federal Government, ever, was to porogue Parliament. Did any of the taxpayers notice? Worked so well, they should make that permanent.

**LargoWinch** · February 03, 2009, 10:48 AM

Re: Canada budget sees C$85 billion deficit over 5 years

Seems like just a few months ago, that Canada could do no wrong and its economy would always be strong.

Now, politicians are salivating at taxing us with inflation and/or spending future generations income.

The worst is that they will simply nullify almost 10 years of fiscal discipline in just one term!

Where is the outrage? Oh yeah, Canadian Idol is on and Leafs are so boring to watch that people are simply just asleep.

Anyway, here a related article:

It's A Bailout World!
by David Chapman

If anyone had any doubt about the enormity of the financial crisis gripping the world, look no further than at the amazing conversion of Canadian Prime Minister Stephan Harper and his Finance Minister Jim Flaherty from small c, small government, fiscal conservatives to big spending, big government, deficit hawks. This is not a comment on the actual merits of the budget; merely a note that Harper and Flaherty have joined the bailout world, even if it seems to be with some reluctance.

Trying to get a handle on the size of the bailouts everywhere The Toronto Star printed a "bailout primer" the day after the budget. While it covers only five nations it is illustrative. We summarize much of it below. All figures are US$ billions.

	Canada	United States	United Kingdom	Japan	Germany
Deficit	$28	$1,200	$267	$147	$48.5
Deficit/Capita	$838	$6,635	$4,384	$1,155	$589
Deficit/GDP	1.8%	8.4%	9.6%	3.0%	1.3%
Bailout	$23.6	$700	$621	$16.7	$659
Bailout/Capita	$707	$2,304	$10,197	$1,312	$7,998
Stimulus	$15	$825	$28	$53.4	$96.2

Source: Catherine Farley/Toronto Star - Star Wire Service, IMF, Toronto Star Library

One thing that stands out in these numbers, other than their sheer size, is the massive deficit/GDP ratios of Britain and the US. Numbers like that put both them in the same league as some third world countries and economic basket cases. Granted, if these deficits last only a year or two the damage may be limited, but the recession now underway may last longer and go deeper than most fiscal and monetary authorities may be willing to admit. We haven't noticed anyone forecasting a return to either balanced budgets or surpluses any time soon. Canada's and Germany's deficit/GDP ratio is reasonable under the circumstances.

Link:
http://www.safehaven.com/article-12486.htm

**Spartacus** · February 03, 2009, 01:38 PM

Re: Canada budget sees C$85 billion deficit over 5 years

Amazing to see Canada's stats relative to historical Canada.

Looking at the state wrought by Trudeau & Mulroooooney one would have thought 15 to 20 years ago Canada would have been Zimbabwe north of the 49th.

Originally posted by LargoWinch View Post

Seems like just a few months ago, that Canada could do no wrong and its economy would always be strong.

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Canada budget sees C$85 billion deficit over 5 years

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