‘Soviet’ Britain swells amid the recession

[bvaliant]

Re: ‘Soviet’ Britain swells amid the recession

Civil Racism. Novel idea.

[ProdigyofZen]

Re: ‘Soviet’ Britain swells amid the recession

Clearly you do not understand what I am saying. The immigration to South America by europeans was forced due to WWI and WWII. South Africa as you know was colonalism. USA is a special case and that is why I have not mentioned it the way I have the European countries. This is the question I purpose.... Say you are an immigrant to France from Ghana, ask the Ghanese person how he would feel if by 2025 the native Ghanese people would be outnumbered by lets hypothetically say Indians from India. His entire culture replaced and most of his own people replaced by Indians and their culture. By 2050 there will be no Ghanese people left because of the admixture and massive immigration of Indians. The person will suddenly start to think about his own immigration to France. This is all to provoke thought and dialogue. As you know australia like georgie in the US was a penal colony. Most of those lands were uninhabited. New Zealand was conquered as well as South Africa and USA which is entirely different than immigration.

[ProdigyofZen]

Re: ‘Soviet’ Britain swells amid the recession

Yes, bvaliant when you have no argument agaisnt mine you quickly turn it to racism. That is the equivalent of calling me a heretic in the 16th century. You cannot have a civil discussion about immigration without some person calling you a racist. Pretty funny stuff and I will not allow that white stigma to be placed on me or said about me. Valiant, you should look deep within your soul and ask yourself why do I call others racist? Is it because that is the way you were taught in school and by the media, that whenever someone is agaisnt massive immigration or voices an opinion agaisnt those issues they are automatically racist? Funny funny funny stuff.

[bvaliant]

Re: ‘Soviet’ Britain swells amid the recession

Typical fascist response. Do you like that label better? Why do you even care? I'm just some disembodied brain somewhere on teh internets!

For all you know I'm a lazy, poor, (brown-skinned, Jewish, Islamic, Liberal, Right-wing, Mexican, Catholic, whatever-label-you-choose) leech sucking the life out of your glorious nation state!

Civil?! Did you know that the way you say something sometimes is as important as what you say?

Me look into my soul?!

Meh.

[ProdigyofZen]

Re: ‘Soviet’ Britain swells amid the recession

I never claimed anyone was sucking the life out of any nation? I am confused what thoughts have you put in your head about my comments? Not a fascist either, an objectivist libertarian more like it. I call it like it seems or I see it with disregard to any political side.
P.S. I am jewish, you got one thing right! in that list.

[*T*]

Re: ‘Soviet’ Britain swells amid the recession

Despite a lot of immigration I don't see the culture of the UK being obliterated despite your fear-mongering.

And it's disingenuous to suggest that

The immigration to South America by europeans was forced due to WWI and WWII. South Africa as you know was colonalism. USA is a special case...

How about, modern immigration is forced by poverty? Why is it a special case when the immigration is done by Europeans!? Depends rather on your point of view I think.

I won't respond on this topic further as it's turning into a thread hijack. If you want to discuss immigration you can start a new thread.

[labasta]

Re: ‘Soviet’ Britain swells amid the recession

The next question is what allows those nations to have a higher per capita gdp. Is it culture? Religion liberalism? what is it.

Now that's a good question, which I might have inadvertantly answered when I was doing my dissertation on intellectual property theft at uni.

The answer seems to be based on three or four things:

1. Property rights
2. The rule of law
3. Easy entry to starting a business (red tape)
(4. Democracy (not a necessity, but helps))


Probably in that order, with 1. and 2. being very similar I think.

I stumbled across Hernando de Soto which is interesting reading. He said poor people in poor countries have no legal framework of property rights. You don't know who owns what. He gave favelas as an example. If you don't know who owns what, you have no assets. No assets mean no loan or startup capital etc. There are plenty of people in these countries who have dreams and aspirations but can't realise them. Plus the elite in these countries don't want any competition so they erect huge barriers of entry with ridiculous amounts of red tape making it impossible to start a business. A lot of African countries came up as examples of the red tape problem.

I also stumbled across a rating system of countries (I will have to look at my dissertation to find out more), which when I studied the GDP table of all the countries there was only one exception. I can't remember which one, I think it might have been Taiwan.

I also wondered about Japan, why that isn't a hotspot for immigration. You've answered that question. I heard the Japanese are extremely racist (mind you, I think most peoples of the world are, to be honest). That might explain their zero immigration policy.

[grapejelly]

Re: ‘Soviet’ Britain swells amid the recession

Hernando De Soto makes a lot of sense.

The Austrians use the concept of time preference. As people feel secure about investing, they will invest for longer and longer time horizons. In countries with arbitrary rule of law, they do not invest for long periods at all.

Predictability of the legal system and freedom from arbitrary rule of law seems to be a key to letting people invest for longer periods of time.

Government is by definition coercive. As government seizes a greater percentage of private assets, those private assets are deployed to uses that reward politically powerful groups at the expense of producers and entrepreneurs. The larger the size of government as a percentage of GDP, over the long haul, the lower the growth of the economy.

People always bring up the Scandinavian model as a counter example but I am not sure that this isn't due to some unusual factors at work. A homogeneous population, oil revenues in the case of Norway, etc.

But the bottom line is that predictability of the legal system and freedom from arbitrary use of force seem to be most important in promoting investment and economic advancement.

[ProdigyofZen]

Re: ‘Soviet’ Britain swells amid the recession

Racism is a word misused way too often. The japanese are not racist perse they are ethnocentrits and care mainly to preserve their ethnic identity and culture. Peope confuse ethnocentrism with racism way too often. I had an ex girlfriend at one time who was Persian (from Iran) she would constantly say that Persian people were the best, persian culture is the best, persian food is the best. Now do I take that as racism? or is that really ethnocentrism. There is nothing wrong with the latter. Even though she is Persian she is ethnically Aryan and white but with a slightly different skin tone. For regarding race, skin color is the least indicator of what race you are. Skin color doesn't matter at all.

[labasta]

Re: ‘Soviet’ Britain swells amid the recession

Hernando De Soto makes a lot of sense.

The Austrians use the concept of time preference. As people feel secure about investing, they will invest for longer and longer time horizons. In countries with arbitrary rule of law, they do not invest for long periods at all.

Predictability of the legal system and freedom from arbitrary rule of law seems to be a key to letting people invest for longer periods of time.

Government is by definition coercive. As government seizes a greater percentage of private assets, those private assets are deployed to uses that reward politically powerful groups at the expense of producers and entrepreneurs. The larger the size of government as a percentage of GDP, over the long haul, the lower the growth of the economy.

People always bring up the Scandinavian model as a counter example but I am not sure that this isn't due to some unusual factors at work. A homogeneous population, oil revenues in the case of Norway, etc.

But the bottom line is that predictability of the legal system and freedom from arbitrary use of force seem to be most important in promoting investment and economic advancement.

Yes, I think that is basically what de Soto is saying.

To be honest, I'm not sure if Scandanavia is an exception. They have high tax rates (I assume), but property rights are still enforced. I'm not sure how arbitrary the government is relating to private rights. Maybe not too invasive. I know a high tax rate is invasive, but perhaps this is balanced out by other factors such as morality and fairness (homogenous??), :confused: or less arbitration in other areas of society. Or maybe their barriers for entrepeneurs are quite low, or even helpful.

In other words, maybe the only countries where socialism (or any arbitary rule of law system) works are in those which can afford it.

I suppose in an ideal world, arbitary rule of law would not be needed as the excessively rich would donate voluntarily. I imagine this would be particulary true in closeknit homogeneous societies.

Unfortunately, I think an awful lot of arbitary tax goes elsewhere and not always to those that need it (I.e. cronyism or corruption). I bet you'll find poor countries to have very leaky pipes.


Mmmm

[ProdigyofZen]

Re: ‘Soviet’ Britain swells amid the recession

I am not even British nor do I live there. It is not fear-mongering to suggest that a culture and its people could be gone in the next 100 years as in the case of Sweden. Stop trying to use negative connotation words to label someone. Have an honest discussion

[amacfly]

Re: ‘Soviet’ Britain swells amid the recession

OMFG, I joined this forum because of the excellent clip 'fed fail' doing the rounds, I thought I'd find intelligent life and smart commentary, and I find this. Very disapointing.

[ProdigyofZen]

Re: ‘Soviet’ Britain swells amid the recession

its one post amafly. So talking about immigration means you have no intelligence? seriously these forums are for open debate without people calling others names etc. If you cannot handle the heat get out of the kitchen.

[amacfly]

Re: ‘Soviet’ Britain swells amid the recession

I was expecting a more serious look at the national consequences of this extrodinary situation, especially considering that the govt will end up own the banks. The BoE is a Rothchild enterprise, not a govt one, everything the govt holds fails in the end, British Leyland, British Steel, British Rail, National Coal Board, where are they now? NHS is a wonderful mercy mission, but an abysmal financial reality.

How will the govt maintain this, how will those taxed to maintain this react, and how will the newly 'entitled' feel as they get squeezed by the new reality of no cash in the system?

Consequences, and how to avoid them, was the kind of stimulation I thought I'd find in this 'kitchen', not schoolyard mud slinging and petty bickering.

[ProdigyofZen]

Re: ‘Soviet’ Britain swells amid the recession

You will find those answers here, at least our answers to those questions you need only ask. Why don't you start a thread asking those same questions? I can help on those or at least give my input.

The British are going to have to accept a lower standard of living as well as most of the "developed" nations. Those banks that will be nationalized by the govt will eventually go out of business entirely like in the past or be bought back into private hands. It could end up with the country of Britain going bankrupt as well. The pound being devalued even more. Taxes will have to go up and the productive members of society will leave for greener pastures in predominatly east asian countries. My original post was something to the lines of "the immigrants will leave britain because there will be no more opportunity there and better opp in their home countries like India.

The govnts of most of the European countries have gone bankrupt in the past and they will do it again. The US is also on the clock just look at the CDS written on it.....