Jailhouse FIRE?

[don]

I was driving around, doing errands, and caught bits and pieces of a guy being interviewed about his book on the American prison system. The part I caught was the per capita incarceration rate for the US is remarkably steady over many many decades (I immediately thought housing appreciation and inflation) and then explodes in the 70s FIVE FOLD, right on time with FIRE's dominance.

Coincidence? I have no data on this what so ever. Prison privatization, endless prison bonds here in Prop 13 Cali ever since, bloated state prison pensions, etc. Is our penal system, now with over 2.5M inmates, being ridden and fed by a FIRE dog, like our health care?

[c1ue]

Re: Jailhouse FIRE?

Don,

If you haven't already, check out www.dunwalke.com

Doesn't quite go back to the '70s though...

[Sharky]

Re: Jailhouse FIRE?

The war on drugs has been another big contributor.

The prison system in the US is badly broken. Talk about criminal!

[bungee]

Re: Jailhouse FIRE?

The war on drugs has been another big contributor.

The prison system in the US is badly broken. Talk about criminal!

Both these topics are very well covered by the documentry "American Drug War - The Last White Hope"

http://americandrugwar.com/

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1033467/

[Master Shake]

Re: Jailhouse FIRE?

I was driving around, doing errands, and caught bits and pieces of a guy being interviewed about his book on the American prison system. The part I caught was the per capita incarceration rate for the US is remarkably steady over many many decades (I immediately thought housing appreciation and inflation) and then explodes in the 70s FIVE FOLD, right on time with FIRE's dominance.

Coincidence? I have no data on this what so ever. Prison privatization, endless prison bonds here in Prop 13 Cali ever since, bloated state prison pensions, etc. Is our penal system, now with over 2.5M inmates, being ridden and fed by a FIRE dog, like our health care?

Did it have to do with the FIRE economy or was it a product of the 60's counter-culture? Or maybe we were getting a whiff of what Nietzsche called the total eclipse of all values, the result of a culture which no longer really believes in a higher power?

Tom Wolfe wrote a great essay on this over a decade ago.

http://www.orthodoxytoday.org/articl...feSoulDied.php

[flintlock]

Re: Jailhouse FIRE?

There's a lot of people in jail today for things that would not have landed them there 60 years ago. ( Drugs, statutory rape, etc). The war on drugs is probably the biggest single reason for the huge jail population. That and the revolving door we have for hard criminals.

I have to agree with this statement by Ayn Rand (cant stand most of her drivel)

"The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. "

In other words, the government derives power from encouraging the growth of a criminal class. That creates a "need" for a larger police force, courts, administrators, buildings,etc. It really is big business in this country. Just check out the "security" requirements at the inauguration if you don't believe me. The US is swarming with police, armed to the teeth. But do we really feel safer? The legal system is really more concerned with its own existence than it is with fighting crime. And making every citizen a potential criminal is an excellent way to intimidate them into submission.

You can also throw in the "loss of values" argument as a factor.

[KGW]

Re: Jailhouse FIRE?

Did it have to do with the FIRE economy or was it a product of the 60's counter-culture? Or maybe we were getting a whiff of what Nietzsche called the total eclipse of all values, the result of a culture which no longer really believes in a higher power?

Ya, the eclipse of "all values" by the powers that be, so to speak. Like Nixon, LBJ, the Bushes, the Clintons. And the financial powers behind the curtain.

I recommend Michel Focault's "Surveil and Punish," a critical analysis of the evolution of the penal system from the days of kings.

[don]

Re: Jailhouse FIRE?

Prison-FIRE and Health-FIRE. Twins but not identical.

P-FIRE: The more the merry, it's on the public dime. More prisons, more guards, more muni bonds, more 401ks. It's all good

H-FIRE: Forever purging. Wanted: only the young and healthy. No end to the premium/co-pays. And state and federal care. Whoa, forget about it. The sacred calf :p

A personal note on the latter twin. My wife needed some serious medical attention last year which was our first "test" of our HMO coverage. It was an education. Her procedures, while serious, are now routine and our $$$ coverage was fine. What was eye opening was the billing structure. I believe we received copies of everything. This is typical:

Such and such done. Cost $18,000. Your provider has contractually agreed to pay $7,200. The balance is $10,800. You are not required to pay any of this amount. Balance= zero.

This seems to be a fairly common price structure.

Here's my questions:

One, what a marvelous ongoing paper loss made available through this pricing.

Two, I bet the government pays full boat on the charges, i.e. $18,000, more apparently (by a lot) that any HMO would put up with.

Are these close?

As is said, a beautiful thing indeed :eek:

[Sharky]

Re: Jailhouse FIRE?

Such and such done. Cost $18,000. Your provider has contractually agreed to pay $7,200. The balance is $10,800. You are not required to pay any of this amount. Balance= zero.

I've been through this too. That's a pretty typical "negotiated provider write-down."

It's not the government (Medicare / Medicaid) that gets stuck with the higher bill -- it's the people without insurance. The justification seems to be that the uninsured have much higher default rates.

[don]

Re: Jailhouse FIRE?

I've been through this too. That's a pretty typical "negotiated provider write-down."

It's not the government (Medicare / Medicaid) that gets stuck with the higher bill -- it's the people without insurance. The justification seems to be that the uninsured have much higher default rates.

Does that mean the government also has a lowered "contractual" rate than the billed "cost"?

[Sharky]

Re: Jailhouse FIRE?

Does that mean the government also has a lowered "contractual" rate than the billed "cost"?

Yes; the government has a "negotiated" rate just like private insurance companies do.

[don]

Re: Jailhouse FIRE?

Yes; the government has a "negotiated" rate just like private insurance companies do.

Then who pays the full boat?

And what is the function of these astronomical charges that practically no one pays?

In short, where's Alice :confused: