'Buy American' in '09

[cmraynew]

Here's a link to a Bloomberg article that suggests that the Obama administration may be considering a 'buy American' condition in its economic stimulus legislation.

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“We are reviewing the buy American proposal and we are committed to a plan that will save or create 3 million jobs, including jobs in manufacturing,” said Jen Psaki, a spokeswoman for Obama’s transition team...

The stimulus package must pass Congress, and Representative Chris Van Hollen, the Maryland Democrat who is a liaison between Congress and Obama’s transition team, said “we obviously want to focus our investments in areas where American industry will benefit.”

Still, Van Hollen, speaking in an interview on Bloomberg Television’s “Political Capital with Al Hunt,” said the aim of the legislation wasn’t to “set up walls” and that the stimulus would be aimed at “generating American jobs,” not triggering a “trade war.” ...

Nucor Corp. Chief Executive Officer Dan DiMicco said he will use his position as a member of the U.S. Department of Commerce’s manufacturing council to push for the use of domestically produced steel in such projects. Current requirements that American-made material be used in government projects are unevenly enforced, he said...

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Let the trade wars begin... but let's be sure to call it 'protecting jobs'. Yet, hasn't self protection historically been one of the primary justifications for going to war? I think Van Hollen will need some new rhetoric to avoid the association.

Protecting jobs dissolves the jobs of your neighbor, who will move to advantage his domestic industry. Such actions eventually become the habit that is isolationism. And global recessions become global depressions.

[GRG55]

Re: 'Buy American' in '09

Here's a link to a Bloomberg article that suggests that the Obama administration may be considering a 'buy American' condition in its economic stimulus legislation.

--------
“We are reviewing the buy American proposal and we are committed to a plan that will save or create 3 million jobs, including jobs in manufacturing,” said Jen Psaki, a spokeswoman for Obama’s transition team...

The stimulus package must pass Congress, and Representative Chris Van Hollen, the Maryland Democrat who is a liaison between Congress and Obama’s transition team, said “we obviously want to focus our investments in areas where American industry will benefit.”

Still, Van Hollen, speaking in an interview on Bloomberg Television’s “Political Capital with Al Hunt,” said the aim of the legislation wasn’t to “set up walls” and that the stimulus would be aimed at “generating American jobs,” not triggering a “trade war.” ...

Nucor Corp. Chief Executive Officer Dan DiMicco said he will use his position as a member of the U.S. Department of Commerce’s manufacturing council to push for the use of domestically produced steel in such projects. Current requirements that American-made material be used in government projects are unevenly enforced, he said...

-------------

Let the trade wars begin... but let's be sure to call it 'protecting jobs'. Yet, hasn't self protection historically been one of the primary justifications for going to war? I think Van Hollen will need some new rhetoric to avoid the association.

Protecting jobs dissolves the jobs of your neighbor, who will move to advantage his domestic industry. Such actions eventually become the habit that is isolationism. And global recessions become global depressions.

Angels dancing on the head of pin debate...

If the asphalt used to repave the roads [and it's certain a lot of this money is going to end up in roads] is manufactured in a US refinery using imported crude, what will they do? :rolleyes:

[don]

Re: 'Buy American' in '09

Angels dancing on the head of pin debate...

If the asphalt used to repave the roads [and it's certain a lot of this money is going to end up in roads] is manufactured in a US refinery using imported crude, what will they do? :rolleyes:

You know that oil is a fungible commodity. A simple matter of a sleight of hand. The US oil production is more than enough to cover, on paper, the blacktop

Buy American...whatever the hell that means. Are the hired goons that bashed the Japanese car imports many moons ago still on the payroll :rolleyes:

[Scott4139]

Re: 'Buy American' in '09

I wonder if anyone in Congress will stipulate that the Big 3 buy their parts from suppliers manufacturing the parts here in USA. Oh yeah, they probably think they still make their own parts.

I still think it's strange that Mexico and Canada are considered "Made in America"

[GRG55]

Re: 'Buy American' in '09

...I still think it's strange that Mexico and Canada are considered "Made in America"

I don't see any inconsistency in that at all.

"Made in the USA" and "Made in America" aren't necessarily the same thing...

[phirang]

Re: 'Buy American' in '09

Well, there's no better way to force Chinese consumption than tariffs...

[don]

Re: 'Buy American' in '09

I don't see any inconsistency in that at all.

"Made in the USA" and "Made in America" aren't necessarily the same thing...

When South America was fighting to free itself from Spain, led by its own Euro-colonists like our Jeffersons, Washingtons, etc., they called themselves The Americans. News to the real Americans, eh :rolleyes::confused:

[Jim Nickerson]

Re: 'Buy American' in '09

When South America was fighting to free itself from Spain, led by its own Euro-colonists like our Jeffersons, Washingtons, etc., they called themselves The Americans. News to the real Americans, eh :rolleyes::confused:

This is a bit interesting. To my knowledge there is a vacuum in our language to designate "United Statesers." I've known some Venezuelans who expressed some indignation at not being designated as "Americans."

You, and GRG, if he made the same point, are correct, everyone in North, Central, and South America are "Americans." We need something like the UK has, they are not "United Kingdomers" but rather English or Brits, Scots, or Welsh.

What should we be, other than the misnomer of "American?"

[don]

Re: 'Buy American' in '09

My point was more on typical American ignorance of much south of the Rio Grand than suggesting some God-awful New Name that would invariably smack of political correctness. Gag on a Liberal :p

I put myself among the uninformed and only recently read about the long conflict fought by the mainly ethnic Spanish colonizers of South America that wanted to be independent of their Mother Country. That included Simon Bolivar and his endeavors.

[GRG55]

Re: 'Buy American' in '09

My point was more on typical American ignorance of much south of the Rio Grand than suggesting some God-awful New Name that would invariably smack of political correctness. Gag on a Liberal :p

I put myself among the uninformed and only recently read about the long conflict fought by the mainly ethnic Spanish colonizers of South America that wanted to be independent of their Mother Country. That included Simon Bolivar and his endeavors.

You're in fine shape. A little while ago my wife tried to order something from a southern-USA located business. The person taking the order wanted to know "Where's Alberta". When my wife responded that "It's just north of Montana"...yep, you guessed it..."So, like, where's Montana?"...

[don]

Re: 'Buy American' in '09

Speaking of those boyz south of the Americanski DMZ, here's Wallerstein's latest:

Amidst a world economic/financial crisis that seems to worsen day by day, continuing political and military meltdown throughout the Middle East, and the global anticipation of Obama's presidency, little world attention has been given to a major geopolitical event in mid-December, 2008. Cuba is back! Four Latin American meetings were held successively in Salvador de Bahía, Brazil. In order of the number of countries involved, they were meetings of Mercosur, Unasur, the Grupo de Río, and the First Summit of Latin America and the Caribbean (CALC in its Spanish initials). The impresario was Brazil's President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva, and the "hero" of the meetings was Cuba. Lula called it an "ideological hurricane."

Let us review what happened. Mercosur is a common market arrangement of Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay, and Paraguay, which Venezuela is joining. The presidents of these five countries announced that they would absorb all the exports of Bolivia, which had its preferential tariffs canceled by the United States in September on the specious grounds that Bolivia was not doing enough to combat drug traffic.

This action was endorsed by Unasur, the union of all 12 South American countries (plus Mexico and Panama as observers). Even more important, Unasur agreed to on Brazil's proposal that it create a South American Defense Council. Given that just last May Unasur had tabled this proposal (about which the United States had been unhappy) the Brazilian Minister of Foreign Affairs, Celso Amorim, hailed the decision as a "good surprise." He said that it incarnated the idea of Latin America for the Latin Americans, a pointed rejection of the classical Monroe Doctrine slogan of "America for the Americans."

The truly major event however occurred on December 16 in the meeting of the Grupo de Río. The Grupo de Río, a Latin American political forum created in 1986, which in 2008 included 22 countries, "unanimously" admitted Cuba to membership. Mexico's President Felipe Calderón, who was presiding at the session, welcomed the "brother people" of Cuba represented by President Raúl Castro, to a standing ovation. The forum promptly condemned the U.S. embargo against Cuba, and demanded that it end forthwith.

Calderón and Castro held a private meeting designed to overcome the "rough edges" of the relationship of the two countries that had been brought about by the actions of Calderón's predecessor, Vicente Fox. After the meeting, Castro said the relations were now "magnificent." The two announced that they would exchange official visits to each other in 2009.

The culminating meeting was the summit of all 33 Latin American and Caribbean presidents, the first ever held. The only three presidents not to come themselves but to find excuses to send substitutes were Colombia's Alvaro Uribe, Peru's Alan García, and El Salvador's Elias Antonio Saca - the last firm friends of the United States in Latin America. Brazil was so intent on getting maximum participation that it sent military planes to transport the presidents of poorer countries in Central America and the Caribbean to the meeting.


The significance of this meeting was in the exclusions. Neither the United States nor the former colonial powers, Spain and Portugal were invited. Ecuador's president, Rafael Correa, said that the meeting marked the end of "puppet governments" in Latin America. The Brazilian journalist, Pepe Escobar, called it "a torpedo launched towards the Obama submarine."

The timing of this meeting was no accident. The Fifth Summit of the Americas is scheduled for next April in Trinidad. This is a structure launched by President Clinton in 1994. The same heads of state and government will be invited, except that there will be two more - the United States and Canada - and one less, Cuba.

Presumably, Obama will be faced there with the arguments and proposals put forward at the meeting in Brazil. The first is to include Cuba by revoking its suspension from the Organization of American States. Lula stated that, in order to improve the relations of Cuba and the United States, it is the United States that must take the first step by lifting the embargo. A second is to review outstanding national debts. Ecuador has already announced a moratorium on further debt payments, saying that, after paying the debt for 28 years, it still owes the same amount - a "dismal story" said President Correa.

Castro said he is ready for direct talks with Obama. "If he wants to have a discussion, we will. It's increasingly difficult to isolate Cuba." Lula actually went further in his challenge to Obama. He said that his presidency would become truly historic only when he lifts the Cuban blockade. In the meantime, what used to be the backyard of the United States - Latin America - is increasingly open to other world powers. Russia, China, and Iran have all increased their role in Latin America in significant ways.

The latest entrant is France President Nicolas Sarkozy paid an official visit to Brazil> on December 22-23. The two countries not only agreed to increased commercial links but to very important military ones. France will now assist the Brazilian navy to build five "new generation" submarines, including one that is nuclear-powered, the first such submarine in Latin America. Furthermore, France agreed to turn over to Brazil the necessary technology so that, in the future, Brazil can build more submarines on its own. France will also aid Brazil to build so-called heavy helicopters, of which Brazil intends to become an exporter.

The Cuban ball, the Ecuadorian ball, and the Brazilian ball are now all in Obama's court. He has till April to let us know how he will respond.

by Immanuel Wallerstein

I wonder how these "amigos" will cotton to "Buying American in 09" ;)

[Jay]

Re: 'Buy American' in '09

Speaking of those boyz south of the Americanski DMZ, here's Wallerstein's latest:

Amidst a world economic/financial crisis that seems to worsen day by day, continuing political and military meltdown throughout the Middle East, and the global anticipation of Obama's presidency, little world attention has been given to a major geopolitical event in mid-December, 2008. Cuba is back! Four Latin American meetings were held successively in Salvador de Bahía, Brazil. In order of the number of countries involved, they were meetings of Mercosur, Unasur, the Grupo de Río, and the First Summit of Latin America and the Caribbean (CALC in its Spanish initials). The impresario was Brazil's President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva, and the "hero" of the meetings was Cuba. Lula called it an "ideological hurricane."

Let us review what happened. Mercosur is a common market arrangement of Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay, and Paraguay, which Venezuela is joining. The presidents of these five countries announced that they would absorb all the exports of Bolivia, which had its preferential tariffs canceled by the United States in September on the specious grounds that Bolivia was not doing enough to combat drug traffic.

This action was endorsed by Unasur, the union of all 12 South American countries (plus Mexico and Panama as observers). Even more important, Unasur agreed to on Brazil's proposal that it create a South American Defense Council. Given that just last May Unasur had tabled this proposal (about which the United States had been unhappy) the Brazilian Minister of Foreign Affairs, Celso Amorim, hailed the decision as a "good surprise." He said that it incarnated the idea of Latin America for the Latin Americans, a pointed rejection of the classical Monroe Doctrine slogan of "America for the Americans."

The truly major event however occurred on December 16 in the meeting of the Grupo de Río. The Grupo de Río, a Latin American political forum created in 1986, which in 2008 included 22 countries, "unanimously" admitted Cuba to membership. Mexico's President Felipe Calderón, who was presiding at the session, welcomed the "brother people" of Cuba represented by President Raúl Castro, to a standing ovation. The forum promptly condemned the U.S. embargo against Cuba, and demanded that it end forthwith.

Calderón and Castro held a private meeting designed to overcome the "rough edges" of the relationship of the two countries that had been brought about by the actions of Calderón's predecessor, Vicente Fox. After the meeting, Castro said the relations were now "magnificent." The two announced that they would exchange official visits to each other in 2009.

The culminating meeting was the summit of all 33 Latin American and Caribbean presidents, the first ever held. The only three presidents not to come themselves but to find excuses to send substitutes were Colombia's Alvaro Uribe, Peru's Alan García, and El Salvador's Elias Antonio Saca - the last firm friends of the United States in Latin America. Brazil was so intent on getting maximum participation that it sent military planes to transport the presidents of poorer countries in Central America and the Caribbean to the meeting.


The significance of this meeting was in the exclusions. Neither the United States nor the former colonial powers, Spain and Portugal were invited. Ecuador's president, Rafael Correa, said that the meeting marked the end of "puppet governments" in Latin America. The Brazilian journalist, Pepe Escobar, called it "a torpedo launched towards the Obama submarine."

The timing of this meeting was no accident. The Fifth Summit of the Americas is scheduled for next April in Trinidad. This is a structure launched by President Clinton in 1994. The same heads of state and government will be invited, except that there will be two more - the United States and Canada - and one less, Cuba.

Presumably, Obama will be faced there with the arguments and proposals put forward at the meeting in Brazil. The first is to include Cuba by revoking its suspension from the Organization of American States. Lula stated that, in order to improve the relations of Cuba and the United States, it is the United States that must take the first step by lifting the embargo. A second is to review outstanding national debts. Ecuador has already announced a moratorium on further debt payments, saying that, after paying the debt for 28 years, it still owes the same amount - a "dismal story" said President Correa.

Castro said he is ready for direct talks with Obama. "If he wants to have a discussion, we will. It's increasingly difficult to isolate Cuba." Lula actually went further in his challenge to Obama. He said that his presidency would become truly historic only when he lifts the Cuban blockade. In the meantime, what used to be the backyard of the United States - Latin America - is increasingly open to other world powers. Russia, China, and Iran have all increased their role in Latin America in significant ways.

The latest entrant is France President Nicolas Sarkozy paid an official visit to Brazil> on December 22-23. The two countries not only agreed to increased commercial links but to very important military ones. France will now assist the Brazilian navy to build five "new generation" submarines, including one that is nuclear-powered, the first such submarine in Latin America. Furthermore, France agreed to turn over to Brazil the necessary technology so that, in the future, Brazil can build more submarines on its own. France will also aid Brazil to build so-called heavy helicopters, of which Brazil intends to become an exporter.

The Cuban ball, the Ecuadorian ball, and the Brazilian ball are now all in Obama's court. He has till April to let us know how he will respond.

by Immanuel Wallerstein

I wonder how these "amigos" will cotton to "Buying American in 09" ;)

Didn't this south of the boarder movement to break away from American economic hegemony happen once already in the 70's? It didn't work out too well for those in power back then; there seemed to be lots of plane crashes with important people on board. Let's spin the wheel, who gets to be the next Pinochet?!

[GRG55]

Re: 'Buy American' in '09

Didn't this south of the boarder movement to break away from American economic hegemony happen once already in the 70's? It didn't work out too well for those in power back then; there seemed to be lots of plane crashes with important people on board. Let's spin the wheel, who gets to be the next Pinochet?!

To have a "Pinochet", you also must have an "Allende". Maybe that would be easier to figure out. Then again, this isn't the '70s...

[Jay]

Re: 'Buy American' in '09

To have a "Pinochet", you also must have an "Allende". Maybe that would be easier to figure out. Then again, this isn't the '70s...

Hugo Chavez seems like a place to start when looking for a new fall guy.

[GRG55]

Re: 'Buy American' in '09

Hugo Chavez seems like a place to start when looking for a new fall guy.

Perfect...:cool:

And yet another opportunity to deny it has anything to do with oil.