SOX (Sarbanes Oxley) & the End of FIRE

[Jim Nickerson]

Re: SOX (Sarbanes Oxley) & the End of FIRE

My Dad will be ok then.

He's never been busier.

He is in a very niche market though. He takes out amalgam fillings and detoxifies people intravenously. Tries to be as poison free a dentist as possible. He's booked out months in advance.

That practice strikes me as charlatanism; however, I'd love to be corrected with a couple references to publications from refereed journals (which in itself is no absolute fail-safe from bad information) that would support the practice.

[Sharky]

Re: SOX (Sarbanes Oxley) & the End of FIRE

If an industry pays taxes, they deserve a voice to government. Hence the birth of lobbyists.

It's not taxes that gave birth to lobbyists. It was laws that were designed to restrict or penalize business in some way. Corporations discovered how damaging those laws could be -- both to them and to their competitors. So they responded by influencing legislation through lobbyists and through their support of particular candidates, to help increase the chances that the legislation would be in their favor.

Can the Internet, and sites like iTulip help individuals work together, make it worthwhile to work together, to drive the government in the right direction?

The first challenge is educate people about the causes of today's problems: first, allowing Congress to exert control over business, and second, allowing Corporations to exert control over Congress.

What other alternatives are there to overcome the very effective voice of lobbyists?

Should lobbyists have another appendage tied behind their back so as to make it a more fair fight for government's attention?

As long as Congress is allowed to exert control over business, lobbyists will exist. If attempts are made to restrict them, the result will be to favor some lobbyists over others, not to eliminate the problem.

[Munger]

Re: SOX (Sarbanes Oxley) & the End of FIRE

It's not taxes that gave birth to lobbyists. It was laws that were designed to restrict or penalize business in some way. Corporations discovered how damaging those laws could be -- both to them and to their competitors. So they responded by influencing legislation through lobbyists and through their support of particular candidates, to help increase the chances that the legislation would be in their favor.



The first challenge is educate people about the causes of today's problems: first, allowing Congress to exert control over business, and second, allowing Corporations to exert control over Congress.



As long as Congress is allowed to exert control over business, lobbyists will exist. If attempts are made to restrict them, the result will be to favor some lobbyists over others, not to eliminate the problem.

I agree. Corporations should have complete power to do as they wish.

[Jim Nickerson]

Re: SOX (Sarbanes Oxley) & the End of FIRE

I agree. Corporations should have complete power to do as they wish.

CTMFan, is this sarcasm again, or do you really agree?

See this :rolleyes:, it is "roll eyes (Sarcastic)," you might consider its applicability.

[Sharky]

Re: SOX (Sarbanes Oxley) & the End of FIRE

I agree. Corporations should have complete power to do as they wish.

I'll try again: Corporations should not be allowed to influence government, through lobbyists or any other way.

Once that link is broken, it's impossible for Corps to remain evil for long in a free market. As an example, look at some of the worst offenders of today: the government has actually passed laws that prevent them from being sued! Not to mentioned government-sanctioned pollution, etc, etc.

[Munger]

Re: SOX (Sarbanes Oxley) & the End of FIRE

I'll try again: Corporations should not be allowed to influence government, through lobbyists or any other way.

True.

Once that link is broken, it's impossible for Corps to remain evil for long in a free market.

False.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: SOX (Sarbanes Oxley) & the End of FIRE

from refereed journals

There's your problem, Jim .

There are some subject areas in which I recommend distrusting refereed journals. This includes some medical areas that directly affect my personal health, especially when those areas have become too politicized, as for example the safety of various uses of mercury, fluoride and chlorine, or the efficacy of most treatments for or means of avoiding most chronic illnesses, or matters of nutrition, diet and our food supply.

I may be a loon on these matters, and you're welcome to label me such. But I'm quite happily and determinedly wagering my life, my health and my longevity on these conclusions.

[Slimprofits]

Re: SOX (Sarbanes Oxley) & the End of FIRE

I'm not so sure. Perhaps we need to narrow the list down to Health Professionals.

What about Pharma and Gas/Oil? Is Pharma is too closely related to FIRE?

[johnw106]

Re: SOX (Sarbanes Oxley) & the End of FIRE

Its not the lobbyists so much as it is campaign contributions. I wonder how many of our fine leaders in Congress would even be there if not for the monies given to them by the military-industrial complex?
A close second in the ongoing bribery of Congress are the institutions involved in big-pharm and insurance. Just look at the racket (as in racketeering) run by AARP. They are paid millions of dollars to refer elderly people to favored insurance companys. By no small coincidence these same insurance companys "suggest" laws for the AARP to lobby for or against, and contribute untold millions to the campaign coffers of people who push these laws through Congress. And you can lump the pharm companys in with the insurance companys.

What industry or industries will take the lead? Financials and the companys involved in research involving stem cells. Big -pharm is in trouble soon with billions of dollars in patents running out. Look for the big players like Glaxo-Smith to shift into a feeding frenzy in attempts to buy out and/or merge with the smaller generic drug companys over the next two years. Bio-techs that are involved with stem cell research are prime take over targets now that most of the conservatives are out of the picture.

And rest assured. Unless we move back to gold and silver coins as the only legit currency ( not a gold standard which will always fail ) we have to have a sound banking system. The financial part of the FIRE will remain a major part of our economy for the forseeable future.

[tsetsefly]

Re: SOX (Sarbanes Oxley) & the End of FIRE

Its not the lobbyists so much as it is campaign contributions. I wonder how many of our fine leaders in Congress would even be there if not for the monies given to them by the military-industrial complex?
A close second in the ongoing bribery of Congress are the institutions involved in big-pharm and insurance. Just look at the racket (as in racketeering) run by AARP. They are paid millions of dollars to refer elderly people to favored insurance companys. By no small coincidence these same insurance companys "suggest" laws for the AARP to lobby for or against, and contribute untold millions to the campaign coffers of people who push these laws through Congress. And you can lump the pharm companys in with the insurance companys.

What industry or industries will take the lead? Financials and the companys involved in research involving stem cells. Big -pharm is in trouble soon with billions of dollars in patents running out. Look for the big players like Glaxo-Smith to shift into a feeding frenzy in attempts to buy out and/or merge with the smaller generic drug companys over the next two years. Bio-techs that are involved with stem cell research are prime take over targets now that most of the conservatives are out of the picture.

And rest assured. Unless we move back to gold and silver coins as the only legit currency ( not a gold standard which will always fail ) we have to have a sound banking system. The financial part of the FIRE will remain a major part of our economy for the forseeable future.

agree with everything but the first part.

THe problem is government has the power to make legislation in favor of certain industries and businesses. What is needed is to limit that power.

Any campaign finance reform always hurts the small parties and those candidates who insiders dont like because it is those in power making those laws. I think 20/20 did a special on the mccain feingold (sp?) act and found how it just made it 10x harder for people without party connections to get into politics.