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Can this "vendor financing" adventure only end in heartbreak?

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  • Can this "vendor financing" adventure only end in heartbreak?

    It is my strong belief that everything about the current global macroeconomic picture can be summed up in one phrase - "vendor financing".

    Ie: The chinese are loaning money to the americans to buy their products. The chinese get rich (on paper), the americans get cheap goods. Everyone is happy.

    The question I pose, can such massive, global vendor financing adventure continue? Or is it going to have a soft, hard, or crash landing?

    Historically, if we look at the Japanese, it seems like this approach can drag out for quite a long time. Indeed, the Chinese would be foolish to crash the plane that is flying the global economy because they would only cause massive unrest amongst their new middle class.

    Let's assume then, that everyone is 'on board' with this keeping this economy aloft. Can we not go on doing this forever until the economies slowly adjust ?

    I think so, however the US will need to start taxing consumption. I believe americans have to consume less and produce more, likewise, the Chinese will need to encourage consumption (produce less, and consume more). But this should happen on a gradual basis and in a way that doesn't fracture the world. I believe, especially with the appointing of Paulson, that this is very likely to happen.

    However - there are cracks in the engines, notably the Middle East and North Korea. I think North Korea is less of a risk (China has no desire to see North Korea give Japan a reason to do a nuclear upgrade) unless they do something stupid in a colossal way (such as hand out nuclear plans/devices to terrorists). I think it's all just brinkmanship and nothing to really worry about.

    The middle east, however, is filled with Al Qaeda types ... people who seem to have only one desire and that is to destroy destroy destroy. If they really wanted to do, they could might be able to create a massive disruption and this whole cycle of vendor financing could fall apart (US goes into recession/depression, and China has to deal with massive unrest from their own recession, etc).

    Even then though, we may find that China could just increase its vendor financing and everything will be good to go.

    The other possibility is bird flu, but really, I have no idea what's up with that or if it's just some tin foil hysteria.

    The one possibility I didn't talk about, and one that I really disagree is a serious possibility, is inflation. The fact is, the world knows all about inflation. If prices go up, so will interest rates. I just don't see inflation as a real possibility ... but this is also why I believe that the next move will be up for the fed funds.

  • #2
    Re: Can this "vendor financing" adventure only end in heartbreak?

    question for your scenario, blaze: what happens if u.s. consumption drops during recession?

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    • #3
      Re: Can this "vendor financing" adventure only end in heartbreak?

      Well, China may increase their vendor financing.

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      • #4
        Re: Can this "vendor financing" adventure only end in heartbreak?

        1) China and India are increasing their consumer consumption bases, and we do tax consumption. You probably mean we need to tax it at a higher rate ???


        2) North Korea wont mean squat.


        3) Yes, I agree on the middle eastern thing. Whatever angle you want to use; except that Israel will become less signifigant in American foregin policy over the next decade.


        Pain is a fact of life. Unfortunately to correct the american economy the futher we " vodoo " it ; the more pain we need to experience to get it back on track.

        No matter what happens, we still need shirts ( cotton) , shoes ( oil ) food and such to survive. Commodities baby


        I am going with a moderate recession (- 1.0 GDP ) with moderate stagflation , depending if their is a big disruption due to weather or terror or war on oil supplies. Fed will sit tight and see what kinda fallout from housing ( jobless claims ) and what the retail sector looks like after christmas. Nothing gets done over the new year ( sideways equities) till the new congress gets seated and in gear. I am looking to economic signals from Feb, and March 07' for more data as too the long term direction of the economy
        I one day will run with the big dogs in the world currency markets, and stick it to the man

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        • #5
          Re: Can this "vendor financing" adventure only end in heartbreak?

          Originally posted by blazespinnaker
          Well, China may increase their vendor financing.
          blaze , if the u.s. is in recession and the u.s. consumer is retrenching, offering more "vendor financing" just makes the fed's easing job a little easier, but can only increase consumption if borrowing picks up. if the u.s. individual starts saving [imagine that!] then borrowing declines. the chinese will be "pushing on a string." if u.s. consumption of chinese exports declines, the chinese also have a reduced interest in supporting the dollar. it seems to me that their incentives shift towards ceasing dollar support and getting out of dollar assets to the greatest extent possible while trying to maintain orderly markets.

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          • #6
            Re: Can this "vendor financing" adventure only end in heartbreak?

            Originally posted by spunky
            1) China and India are increasing their consumer consumption bases, and we do tax consumption. You probably mean we need to tax it at a higher rate ???
            I mean a specific consumption tax, similar to the GST we have in canada and is in europe.

            2) North Korea wont mean squat.
            I agree.

            No matter what happens, we still need shirts ( cotton) , shoes ( oil ) food and such to survive. Commodities baby
            Yes, I agree with this.

            I am going with a moderate recession (- 1.0 GDP ) with moderate stagflation , depending if their is a big disruption due to weather or terror or war on oil supplies. Fed will sit tight and see what kinda fallout from housing ( jobless claims ) and what the retail sector looks like after christmas. Nothing gets done over the new year ( sideways equities) till the new congress gets seated and in gear. I am looking to economic signals from Feb, and March 07' for more data as too the long term direction of the economy
            Ok... I like your thinking. What do you think the next trimmed PCE mean report next week is going to say? Still below 2% or above? My guess (and I'm going out on quite the branch), is that inflation will bounce above 2% and the fed will raise one more time, pushing the economy into recession late 2007 / early 2008.

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            • #7
              Re: Can this "vendor financing" adventure only end in heartbreak?

              Blaze:
              I am not sure what it will be :confused: I dont think the fed is going to target on that. I dont think 5.5 % is a real key point in the american psych, and really wont affect those who would make big moves ( buy a house, new car, refi, etc ) 6 % is the target, for me personally. We will soon see how much the homeowners ATM was fueling the economy, both through purchasing and the job creation of the construction industry. A mild winter and crude staying below 65$ a barrel will go along way to a " soft " landing.

              I had to laugh at the morons in the mainstream media today as they continue to act suprised, as the continued crappy news for housing , and its related industries roles in. Doh !!!! Guess they really believe that Goldilocks BS :p , L. Turdlow spews forth on CNBC
              I one day will run with the big dogs in the world currency markets, and stick it to the man

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Can this "vendor financing" adventure only end in heartbreak?

                Originally posted by spunky

                I had to laugh at the morons in the mainstream media today as they continue to act suprised, as the continued crappy news for housing , and its related industries roles in. Doh !!!! Guess they really believe that Goldilocks BS :p , L. Turdlow spews forth on CNBC

                I keep laughing every time a spokesperson from the National Association of Realtors talks about the housing "pullback" as sort of a pause that refreshes so buying can pick up next year. I know they have to spin things, but I mean, jeez, how about some honesty? Everyone sees what's going on. And the thing is, so many houses are still being built! Way more than demand. I saw some of the figures for new homes built and while they are less than the year before, they are still at levels that are the 3rd or 4th highest ever.

                I'm not sure that the really smart people believe the Goldilocks BS; I think that especially for realtors, it's marketing, and you are going to positively spin everything, just like a stock broker will spin stocks, an "analyst" from a site like kitco will be trumpeting gold, etc. etc. You just have to wade through the muck of what people say and read through the lines.

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