The Dead Pool

[D-Mack]

Re: The Dead Pool

Strictly speaking any distribution of a copy beyond yourself is not legal.

However, in practice it is very rarely enforced; the economics of distributing cassettes or even CDs is fairly prohibitive.

As for Apple not having anything to do with illegal filesharing - do you really think all those illegal copies are exclusively played on PCs?

Or is the PC merely the gateway to the iPod?

Again, Apple isn't the only one benefitting from this digitalization trend, but they absolutely are the ones capitalizing on it.

And who got the music industry to agree to this legal portal?

The point again is that this experience isn't going to be repeated by the video content owners, nor even the music content owners going forward.

I was thinking more like recording something from radio or webradio, I think this is legal for non-commercial use.

Sure, there are people using Apple computers, I had one in the 90's. But how many were there when this whole thing started ? 1% of web users?
http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp

But I think that filesharing and illegal mp3 happened not because of Apple.
I think people started to convert music, download it from the net, get it from friends and fill their hd space with music.

Now people had so much music in mp3 format, it opened up a market for portable mp3 players, first on cd than others.

Due to the comparative low sales of Mac computer computers compared to the PC computer, Apple decided to concentrate on non-computer markets[9]. iPod came from Apple's "digital hub" category,[10] when the company began creating software for the growing market of personal digital devices. Digital cameras, camcorders and organizers had well-established mainstream markets, but the company found existing digital music players "big and clunky or small and useless" with user interfaces that were "unbelievably awful,"[10][11] so Apple decided to develop its own. Moroever, though a space with immense market potential, previous products had not enjoyed any notable market penetration[12][13].
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Rubinstein

Maybe there is a secondary reinforcing loop, where people buy an ipod and want to fill it without paying $10k or $20k in the itunes store.

I really bought my ipod because of hd space, long battery life and scrolling/bookmark abilities in several hour long podcasts. I was getting sick with my mp3 player dying in 2 hour mp3 files and not remembering where it stopped.


As far as I know most google videos can be downloaded directly to an ipod and there is lots of copyrighted stuff out there.

[santafe2]

Re: The Dead Pool

The music industry numbers do not correlate with your assertion - besides which technically sharing between people is a violation of RIAA.

Record industry numbers as posted by C1ue:
RecordIndustry.jpg

I apologize for not reading most of your post but I found the premise of your thesis so incorrect, I supposed the remainder to follow that crooked path.

The music industry has been a centrally controlled tyrannical abomination for as many decades as the average human can live. Your chart points to the demise of this centralized control and says nothing of the life, vibrancy and importance of a much more democratic music industry. Surely you can lend your intellect to a better cause than the RIAA. If not, perhaps you'd rather waste your talents supporting the two or three artists who achieved the greatest sales under the RIAA system or waste your senses listening to them.

[rchdenton]

Re: The Dead Pool

Does anyone remember the Sinclair C5, for some reason it springs to mind.

Oh, I know, successful computer company creates electric car...

[Slimprofits]

Re: The Dead Pool

Does anyone remember the Sinclair C5, for some reason it springs to mind.

Oh, I know, successful computer company creates electric car...

Of course, but do you have a TI99 sitting in your garage?

I don't but, there is a Coleco Adam, a Commodore 128 and an Amiga 500 in there somewhere.

[bpr]

Re: The Dead Pool

The music industry has been a centrally controlled tyrannical abomination for as many decades as the average human can live. Your chart points to the demise of this centralized control and says nothing of the life, vibrancy and importance of a much more democratic music industry. Surely you can lend your intellect to a better cause than the RIAA. If not, perhaps you'd rather waste your talents supporting the two or three artists who achieved the greatest sales under the RIAA system or waste your senses listening to them.

Yay. Someone here is aware of the fact that the RIAA is the equivalent of a lobbyist for buggy whips in 1910.

The model is broken and it's time to innovate.

[bpr]

Are analog copies legal in the US? As far as I know it's legal to record it that way here in Germany.
Like it was done via casette sharing in the 80's, I have a couple of mp3's converted from LP, for example.

No, analog copies are not legal in the US, and they probably aren't legal in Germany, but they are tolerated (everywhere by now).

The industry went through the same stuff in the 1970s with the advent of consumer cassette tapes. It was different because analog degrades over generations.* They only overcame it with the introduction of digital sound and noise reduction — Dolby was a major help, until consumer-priced Dolby tapes were available in the mid-eighties — and the CD, opening pandora's box of digital audio.

With analog (tape, vinyl), there is increased noise (tape hiss) and decreased signal (what you're supposed to hear) with each generation of copy made. With digital, there is no additional noise or signal loss with each successive copy, thus making it possible to make an infinite number of exact replicas. Take the family that used to trade tapes and tape the tapes for friends and you get signal loss and audible loss in quality. The industry (notably the RIAA) gave up the fight in the '70s because of the audible loss in quality over generations of tape reproductions (not to mention the fact that tape sales were through the roof and padding the pockets of the RIAA members).

Remember how long it took for recording decks and then (finally) dual-tape decks for tape-to-tape recording became accessible for consumers? It was only 2-3 years before the introduction of the CD, which made analog an obsolete listening medium. The industry tried in vain to replace the CD with a better medium (gold-plated CDs were available in the late '90s, and then DVD-audio was going to change the way we heard music), but the standard 128k recording (lower quality than most RIAA releases) seems to be just fine for most consumers at 99¢ a song.

Now, the situation is untenable for any company projecting revenues from music production, marketing and distribution.

As a musician, I finally feel it's the right time to throw into the fray and start a music production company.

Not to mention the old-fashioned hardware store.

The added benefit of Home Depot and Radio Shack being in financial straits creates a serious potential opportunity for local entrepreneurs — they have emasculated our country's DIY hardware infrastructure. Much of the professional electrical equipment out there relies on fuses and hardware which can only be bought through Radio Shack or online sources. Seriously, try finding a .5 amp 250v fuse without going to Radio Shack and getting it in-hand the same day. Forget cell phones, Radio Shack was built on selling op-amps and transistors for DIY circuit-board freaks.

Now, do the same for a box of #10-24 screws without going to HD. When you're in pinch (or if you're just an impatient American expecting 24-hour service everywhere), you can't wait 5 days for the shipping and you'll pay for the wire or the screw.

* Brian Eno has a really spot on quote, something like "analog degrades gracefully; digital degrades completely." He was talking about the technological differences between analog and digital. Each successive generation of analog tape adds a layer of compression and noise to the tape which can actually make the recording sound more "vintage," or "nostalgic;" whereas, each digital copy is true to the original until you get a corrupt file, after which every copy is unusable. Many read his quote to mean that the digital world degraded recorded music altogether. Suit yourself.

[kingcopper]

Re: The Dead Pool

I've actually thought about starting a boutique tube amp company with firewire connections. Small monoblock tube amps already exist like this; I would just enjoy it very much.

It would be excellent to walk into a bestbuy and see ANY tube amps! Talk about degenerating sound quality!

[thedanimal]

Re: The Dead Pool

I've actually thought about starting a boutique tube amp company with firewire connections. Small monoblock tube amps already exist like this; I would just enjoy it very much.

It would be excellent to walk into a bestbuy and see ANY tube amps! Talk about degenerating sound quality!

Let us know if you decide to do it, I'll be one of your first customers!

[c1ue]

Re: The Dead Pool

I apologize for not reading most of your post but I found the premise of your thesis so incorrect, I supposed the remainder to follow that crooked path.

The music industry has been a centrally controlled tyrannical abomination for as many decades as the average human can live. Your chart points to the demise of this centralized control and says nothing of the life, vibrancy and importance of a much more democratic music industry. Surely you can lend your intellect to a better cause than the RIAA. If not, perhaps you'd rather waste your talents supporting the two or three artists who achieved the greatest sales under the RIAA system or waste your senses listening to them.

Santafe,

You mistake what I post as support for the music industry.

I do not.

What I post is merely to demonstrate that there has been harm done, and that Apple was an important - if not the important - agency in doing so. Hobbyists have been able to put/play music on the PC for decades; only with the recent advent of the iPod (and also the social networking sites like Youtube/Facebook) has this capability gone mainstream.

However, you might consider carefully the ramifications of running roughshod over the RIAA. Because the RIAA exists due to the concept of patent/copyright law.

As someone in a business where technical differentiation is achieved via patents/copyrights, are you truly comfortable with the idea of removing all protection from said inventions?

Because killing the RIAA - while the RIAA is an evil organization, the epitome of lawyerdom and patent trolling - at the same time it would also be a stake in the heart of all those who make a living via intellectual property.

[GRG55]

Re: The Dead Pool

Of course, but do you have a TI99 sitting in your garage?

I don't but, there is a Coleco Adam, a Commodore 128 and an Amiga 500 in there somewhere.

What! No Tandy 1000???

[Slimprofits]

Re: The Dead Pool

What! No Tandy 1000???

I was anti-Radio Shack way back before it was cool to be anti-Radio Shack. Those Tandys were always more expensive than everything else.

[Guinnesstime]

Re: The Dead Pool

Santafe,

You mistake what I post as support for the music industry.

I do not.

What I post is merely to demonstrate that there has been harm done, and that Apple was an important - if not the important - agency in doing so. Hobbyists have been able to put/play music on the PC for decades; only with the recent advent of the iPod (and also the social networking sites like Youtube/Facebook) has this capability gone mainstream.

However, you might consider carefully the ramifications of running roughshod over the RIAA. Because the RIAA exists due to the concept of patent/copyright law.

As someone in a business where technical differentiation is achieved via patents/copyrights, are you truly comfortable with the idea of removing all protection from said inventions?

Because killing the RIAA - while the RIAA is an evil organization, the epitome of lawyerdom and patent trolling - at the same time it would also be a stake in the heart of all those who make a living via intellectual property.

I don't know about all types of music, but generally most income from say rock, metal, etc comes from merchandising and touring. The money earned from album sales, and music for ads usually end up in the pockets of the record label unless negotiated otherwise.....

I guess what I am really trying to say is that the music industry is at fault for its own demise not apple... If you can't stay in shape, innovate, and progress you will die a fat bloated industry/business.

Anyway here are 2 links with some interesting info about the music industry.

http://www.wired.com/entertainment/m...16-01/ff_byrne

David Byrne of Talking Heads Fame discuses current music climate.

www.negativland.com/albini.html

Steve Albini rocks!

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0217-01.htm

Don Henly's column that music no longer about the music.

[santafe2]

Re: The Dead Pool

Santafe,

You mistake what I post as support for the music industry.

I do not.

What I post is merely to demonstrate that there has been harm done, and that Apple was an important - if not the important - agency in doing so. Hobbyists have been able to put/play music on the PC for decades; only with the recent advent of the iPod (and also the social networking sites like Youtube/Facebook) has this capability gone mainstream.

However, you might consider carefully the ramifications of running roughshod over the RIAA. Because the RIAA exists due to the concept of patent/copyright law.

As someone in a business where technical differentiation is achieved via patents/copyrights, are you truly comfortable with the idea of removing all protection from said inventions?

Because killing the RIAA - while the RIAA is an evil organization, the epitome of lawyerdom and patent trolling - at the same time it would also be a stake in the heart of all those who make a living via intellectual property.

Another apology is in order. I should know better than to go off on one of your posts without reading the whole post. Sorry. I obviously dislike the RIAA so completely it dislodges me from my normally logical disposition...

...the RIAA exists due to the concept of patent/copyright law.

It's a slippery slope to defend anything based on the fact that some underlying structure has value. This is the GITMO defense. We agree that patent/copyright law has value. The RIAA however has no function other than ensuring that the current power structure remains in place.

What I post is merely to demonstrate that there has been harm done, and that Apple was an important - if not the important - agency in doing so.

If RIAA does not like like the Apple ITunes file/song sharing policy, they should sue Apple and the two organizations can work it out instead of suing kids through their current scorched earth policy.

[santafe2]

Re: The Dead Pool

Anyway here are 2 links with some interesting info about the music industry.

http://www.wired.com/entertainment/m...16-01/ff_byrne

Whenever I see a chart/graph in a popular publication I always read it to see if it supports the point the author is trying to make or if there's another explanation. This one is a classic.

MusicChart.jpg

The caption says "less music is purchased", but the chart does not measure music, it measures currency. And that may be correct, less money is spent but I suspect more music is purchased. At the peak in 2000, a CD cost $16-$18, the equivalent now costs $8-$10. By 2012, it will likely cost $5-$7. At some point the industry will offer enough value that more money will flow toward it. Until then, they will have to continue to offer better products for less money until there is equilibrium.

[Guinnesstime]

Re: The Dead Pool

Whenever I see a chart/graph in a popular publication I always read it to see if it supports the point the author is trying to make or if there's another explanation. This one is a classic.

[ATTACH]929[/ATTACH]

The caption says "less music is purchased", but the chart does not measure music, it measures currency. And that may be correct, less money is spent but I suspect more music is purchased. At the peak in 2000, a CD cost $16-$18, the equivalent now costs $8-$10. By 2012, it will likely cost $5-$7. At some point the industry will offer enough value that more money will flow toward it. Until then, they will have to continue to offer better products for less money until there is equilibrium.

I don't believe that they go into discussion on the graph... That being said it would be interesting to see their reasoning that less money spent equates to less music purchased.... However I do disagree somewhat with your CD costs.... I don't believe that CD prices have devalued to the degree that you have stated. When I was in HS the value of a CD generally was $12-$16. Nowadays the value of a CD has come down overall, but in a physical retail store I still see prices around that same money mark for new release except that they are now packaged with a lot of garbage i.e. interviews, music vids, exclusive behind the scenes, etc.

I would say that a lot of popular music has come down a little bit in the big retails especially release that have been out for a few years +. Although in the indie and little music shops the prices havent come down at all which may be due to the whole boutique attitude. However this probably will change somewhat with the downward sloping economy.

My last point is that tech, and the world moves a hell of a lot faster than the music industry....

Sorry for the tangents.