Madoff's nemesis

[Supercilious]

Re: Madoff's nemesis

The US suffers from systemic not venal corruption, although the Madoff case looks venal given the family connection.

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Now here is the problem Fred. IMHO there is large scale, systemic, venal and pervasive corruption starting at the high levels of government. And US is not even the worse case. From kgb/siloviki and oligarchs to PLA retired colonels to Clowngress, it's everywhere and IMHO it is systemic and venaland ... (one can add pelnty more qualifiers here)

And I believe that is logical (for any person with an above average IQ) to assume that if one says "The Clowngress is corrupt and in the pockets of Wall Street!" that does't mean that all politicians on the Hill are corrupt, or that a congresman like Ron Paul (for example) is in the pockets of the Wall Street. .... by the contrary! ;)

[D-Mack]

Re: Madoff's nemesis

We have folks here who work at the FBI, the Department of Homeland Security, FEMA -- yes, the whole black helicopter set

We have folks here from every branch of the military, high ranking and not so high ranking. They are here with similar concerns and interests about the markets and the economy as everyone else.

Perhaps you'd like to amend your blanket statement about government official corruption with a "present company excluded"? ;)

Maybe some of them are just working

Feds consider searches of terrorism blogs

By Thomas Frank, USA TODAY
WASHINGTON — The Homeland Security Department may soon start scouring the Internet to find blogs and message boards that terrorists use to plan attacks in the USA.

The effort comes as researchers are seeing terrorists increasingly use the Internet to plan bombings, recruit members and spread propaganda. "Blogging and message boards have played a substantial role in allowing communication among those who would do the United States harm," the department said in a recent notice.

Homeland Security officials are looking for companies to search the Internet for postings "in near to real-time which precede" an attack, particularly a bombing. Bombings are "of great concern" because terrorists can easily get materials and make an improvised-explosive device (IED), the department said.

....

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washing...s_N.htm?csp=34

[Rajiv]

Re: Madoff's nemesis

Incisive analysis by Catherine Austin Fitts on Madoff

Putting Madoff in Perspective

These days I am wondering if Madoff’s biggest problem is that he stole from the rich. Feels to me like when you steal from ordinary people, particularly when it makes the rich much richer, it is called “policy” rather than “ponzi.”

For example, let’s review actions of the NY Fed and its member banks, such as JPMorgan Chase, Goldman Sachs and Citibank. The NY Fed serves as the depository for the US government. The US government has refused to comply with the laws regarding financial management and is missing over $4 trillion (or $14,000 per American.) Whatever money is missing would have to leave through the accounts managed by the government’s depository.

These member banks are also at the heart of the gold suppression scheme documented by GATA.org . They are leaders in the derivatives and mortgage markets and - I believe — related collateral fraud. They were present in the pump and dump of the Internet stocks, the telecom stocks and/or the Enron fraud.

Clearly, they have not prevented the problems with naked short selling or stopped the $1 trillion annual money laundering in the US financial system. And, yet, the media would have us believe that Bernard Madoff is the scandal du jour because he produced above market returns for wealthy clients until it turned out that $50 billion was gone. We are told that rich people lost money. We don’t know who got it. After all it could have been richer people who have exhausted opportunities to steal from ordinary people.

We are told that the moral of the story is that we need more regulation. Which means we give more power to the private and public institutions that are operated, staffed and financed by these bankers and which used existing enforcement to create rather than prevent these problems. Does that sound like a good idea to you?

I say the moral of the story is that we need to find out where the $4 trillion and the $50 billion is and get it back. Crime that pays is crime that stays.

[Jim Nickerson]

Re: Madoff's nemesis

Incisive analysis by Catherine Austin Fitts on Madoff

We are told that the moral of the story is that we need more regulation. Which means we give more power to the private and public institutions that are operated, staffed and financed by these bankers and which used existing enforcement to create rather than prevent these problems. Does that sound like a good idea to you?

I say the moral of the story is that we need to find out where the $4 trillion and the $50 billion is and get it back. Crime that pays is crime that stays.

Putting Madoff in Perspective

My thinking on these problems is not all that deep, but if some sort of policing is the answer, and the current "police" are the government, and the government is not to be trusted (this latter is something to which I subscribe wholeheartedly), then what entity is going to do the policing?

I've not read every post here on iTulip, but I think I am the only one who has even vaguely suggested that the answer, if there is to be an answer, lies in some total wipeout of the current political system. I suggested that it was unfortunate that the mad scientist, who apparently perpertrated the anthrax terrorism, did not succeed with wiping out the entire congress. As radical as that no doubt is I cannot imagine anything, without such some devastating event, but a continuation of the current system.

Personally, I am not unhappy to be nearer to the end of my road as opposed to those just beginning their journies.

[we_are_toast]

Re: Madoff's nemesis

I've not read every post here on iTulip, but I think I am the only one who has even vaguely suggested that the answer, if there is to be an answer, lies in some total wipeout of the current political system. I suggested that it was unfortunate that the mad scientist, who apparently perpertrated the anthrax terrorism, did not succeed with wiping out the entire congress. As radical as that no doubt is I cannot imagine anything, without such some devastating event, but a continuation of the current system.

Personally, I am not unhappy to be nearer to the end of my road as opposed to those just beginning their journies.

Jim, Keep posting on public forums that you wish the congress had been wiped out in an anthrax attack and the end of your road might be a bit more unpleasant than you imagine. ;)

[Jim Nickerson]

Re: Madoff's nemesis

Jim, Keep posting on public forums that you wish the congress had been wiped out in an anthrax attack and the end of your road might be a bit more unpleasant than you imagine. ;)

I am personally not advocating overthrow on the United States government, but seriously trying to think of a solution to the ever-growing number of problems that exist in the current system, I cannot imagine some other answer that would actually remedy the problems.

Look at what Fitts wrote and you come up with some suggestion of how anyone could find the missing $4Trillion and $50Billion. She did not put forth who would do what she suggests might be the answer.

[D-Mack]

Re: Madoff's nemesis

I am personally not advocating overthrow on the United States government, but seriously trying to think of a solution to the ever-growing number of problems that exist in the current system, I cannot imagine some other answer that would actually remedy the problems.

Look at what Fitts wrote and you come up with some suggestion of how anyone could find the missing $4Trillion and $50Billion. She did not put forth who would do what she suggests might be the answer.

As long as people in congress, who ask for missing trillions are branded as crazy by the media and some bogus charges are invented, nothing will change.

[petertribo]

Re: Madoff's nemesis

"Crime that pays is crime that stays."
Anyone who has read about the S&L Ripoff and Bailout (1990-91) will easily see that that was the Template for the current Ripoff and Bailout, only greatly enlarged. So Crime that pays and is NOT PROSECUTED not only stays but expands. So, here we are 15-18 years later with the same Crimes based on the same Real Estate Ripoff but greatly enlarged and nuanced. We now have at least Two Generations of Criminals at work in the same areas.

As for Corruption, why do we measure practically every significant factor/variable in our Economy but there is no Measurement of Corruption? Is it because it always stays the same? Hardly likely. Or is it because it would require funding from the Fed and Congress? Why would Politicians vote to measure their own Corruption and that of their Donors? (Shiller give us a Corruption Index! I would love to see it State by State. I'll take MA as being in the top ten.)

Much of our predicament today is a result of a massive increase in Corruption both in the Public and Private Sectors. The fact that no one measures it and there are no massive Prosecutions attests to the levels of Corruption which now exist.

And as we proceed downwards, the Corruption Level will accelerate as legitimate economic activity diminishes and the Corrupters and Corruptees must seek alternative sources of income. Put another way, as the Legitimate Economy evaporates it is necessary to directly loot the National Treasury which is exactly what is happening for all to see. As I believe Naomi Klein has pointed out, the Bailouts are one GIANT CRIME SCENE.

If I could buy one INDEX, it would be the US Corruption Index and I would bet on it SKYROCKETING! Bring on those INFRASTRUCTURE programs.

[GRG55]

Re: Madoff's nemesis

Jim, Keep posting on public forums that you wish the congress had been wiped out in an anthrax attack and the end of your road might be a bit more unpleasant than you imagine. ;)

[GRG55]

Re: Madoff's nemesis

Interesting story about a guy who figured out Madoff's scheme as early as 1999... and laid it all out for the SEC... and they still couldn't find the fraud!!!

http://clusterstock.alleyinsider.com...0-year-crusade

And for those that may not believe that art mimics life here's an even earlier observation of the American scene...Scott Adams cartoon strip from January 14, 1992

[phirang]

Re: Madoff's nemesis

It's my job on occasion to remind members of our golden rule: mutual respect for each other.

Think about it this way, if you worked for the government you'd get tired of hearing it said how all government employees and officials are stupid or lazy or corrupt. If you saw that expressed here frequently without management calling it you'd reasonably conclude management agreed and leave to go somewhere else. I've gotten after members for telling lawyer jokes. We have plenty of lawyers here. No doubt they have developed thick skins by now, but why hang out at the iTulip Bar & Grill where patrons can be overheard loudly telling lawyer jokes and management appears to be laughing right along with them?

The assertion "all government officials are corrupt" in addition to disrespecting iTulip members who work for the government is also a very unsophisticated view of a real problem here in the US. The US suffers from systemic not venal corruption, although the Madoff case looks venal given the family connection. The relevant concept here is "capture" and fixing it is going to be a challenge, and discussing that is constructive.

I think the right way to put it is this: the relevant, powerful people are ALL corrupt, and so it doesn't really matter if your GS-14 has conviction and does the right thing: he'll eventually either conform or be removed.

Any GS-14, btw, knows better than to cross The Man...

Also, I think that much of the corruption we see is a result of a greater effort at play on the global geo-economic front, and so those in charge (and they aren't elected) don't mind a few eggs getting broken while making Empiral Omlettes.

[santafe2]

Re: Madoff's nemesis

Personally, I am not unhappy to be nearer to the end of my road as opposed to those just beginning their journies.

I've always had a difficult time reconciling your point of view but this helps put it into perspective. In the past, we haven't agreed on much but this statement of disillusion with the human condition is staggering. For me, the most challenging times are the best times to be alive. I want to see, and help form, the next 50 years much more than I care about my history. To say you're reconciled to your own death is to say life is not worth the fight. I completely disagree.

[EJ]

Re: Madoff's nemesis

IMPUNITY, n. Wealth.

Ambrose Bierce (1842 - 1914), The Devil's Dictionary

[vinoveri]

Re: Madoff's nemesis

IMPUNITY, n. Wealth.

Ambrose Bierce (1842 - 1914), The Devil's Dictionary

Astute, satirical cynical wit
let's hope and will the day when we leave that lying devil bastard behind and burn his playbook