Madoff's nemesis

[oddlots]

Interesting story about a guy who figured out Madoff's scheme as early as 1999... and laid it all out for the SEC... and they still couldn't find the fraud!!!

http://clusterstock.alleyinsider.com...0-year-crusade

[don]

Re: Madoff's nemesis

First, you have to want to find it

Or it was all incompetence, as you seem to be implying :rolleyes:

As we all know, it's a level playing field out there, except for the unions.

Authorities Ease Madoff’s Bail Terms


Bernard L. Madoff, the New York financier who authorities say has confessed to a $50 billion Ponzi scheme, will not be going to jail even though he failed to meet the original terms of his $10 million bail agreement.


Federal prosecutors said on Wednesday that they had modified the terms of Mr. Madoff’s agreement so that he would not need to find four people to co-sign his bond. Mr. Madoff was unable to meet that condition, prosecutors said.

(I love this part :cool

Even his sons, Andrew and Mark, were apparently unwilling to help.

During the day, Mr. Madoff will still be allowed to travel throughout Connecticut, southern New York and Long Island. Previously, he had faced no restrictions on his travel in those areas, allowing him to sleep at his oceanfront estate in Montauk if he chose.



Even as Mr. Madoff’s sphere of liberty shrank slightly, new details about his wealth emerged Wednesday. Besides having a 55-foot boat in Florida, Mr. Madoff owned a yacht in the south of France and was a regular at the Hotel du Cap-Eden-Roc in Antibes, near Nice, where suites rent for as much as 5,000 euros — more than $7,000 — a night, according to one person who had invested with him and had seen him at the hotel; the person asked to remain anonymous because he had lost money


BLM Air Charter, a company registered to the same address as Mr. Madoff’s firm, owned a share of a Cessna jet, according to Federal Aviation Administration records. The jet, a Citation X, is a high-performance business jet, capable of flying across the Atlantic at 700 miles an hour. BLM is also listed as the co-owner of a second, smaller jet, which regularly traveled to Florida, the Bahamas and the Caribbean.


http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/18/bu...l?ref=business


So let's knock off the conspiracy talk. This guy's going to get the same American justice as any of us. Just like the guys that were taped looped to us endlessly wading through waist deep flood waters in New Orleans, carrying basic necessities they had taken...yes, taken...from flooded stores.



It's a beautiful thing. No wonder they hate us for our freedoms

[Supercilious]

Re: Madoff's nemesis

Here is actually what the SEC knew in 2005:

http://www.slideshare.net/hblodget/m...?type=document

After reading the Markopolos complaint, the only logical conclusion is that the SEC knew about it and let it happen. This is not falling asleep at the desk and it is not looking the other way. This is covering a scam.

[Shakespear]

Re: Madoff's nemesis

So what do you think, was Governor Spitzer brought down because he knew about this sort of stuff and was going to do something about it?

His case never went to court. :-)

[don]

Re: Madoff's nemesis

A preview of what's in store for the rest of us:

A new report by the U.S. Army War College talks about the possibility of Pentagon resources and troops being used should the economic crisis lead to civil unrest, such as protests against businesses and government or runs on beleaguered banks.

(Can't you picture it. Hordes of bewildered Americanos running down their Main Streets, chasing their banks :rolleyes: )

“Widespread civil violence inside the United States would force the defense establishment to reorient priorities in extremis to defend basic domestic order and human security,” said the War College report.


The study says economic collapse, terrorism and loss of legal order are among possible domestic shocks that might require military action within the U.S.


(There's that word again. A magic word that can mean so many different things ;))



http://phoenix.bizjournals.com/phoen...5/daily34.html


As they say, it's all Greek to Me :eek::cool:

[Supercilious]

Re: Madoff's nemesis

Shakespear, all government officials are more or less corrupt. This is how the system works. When one of them finds a trace of conscience and spine and decides he can't take it anymore and he has to stand up (like Spitzer and Blago did) he is immediately yanked.
Spitzer payed a prostitute from his own money and they used DHS/Patriot act powers to track the expenses (last time when I checked paying a hooker was not an act of terrorism) and bring them down. And voila ... all the fraud inquiries against Wall Street stopped.

Blago, is an Illinois politician .... enough said ... he did what governors and Illinois politicians do. The moment he decided to take a small stand of Wall Street ... surprise ... FBI wiretapping was used to bring him down. My bet is if the FBI would show the same diligence in investigating every governor we may have maybe one or two left standing in the office (that in an optimistic scenario)

This his how the system works. The most profitable scam (Wall Street) has to be defended at all costs, and for that, no clean official/politician can be allowed to get into office.

After reading the Markopulos, even a severely retarded person (I apologize to mentally challenged persons for being unfair and compare them to the SEC) would feel compelled to, at least, start an audit. But those people in the SEC knew very well that if they tried to do that, they'd be spitzered in an instant.

Is there any other explanation?

[Shakespear]

Re: Madoff's nemesis

I like this

spitzered

I have seen this "Spitzer" effect even here in Europe. In Poland when the old Commies dressed in Democratic suits were in power, people would simply be killed if they got in the way. Same applies in Russia. Politovskaya is the best example.

In the US it appears that a prostitute can do equal damage and remove someone off the "stage" :-)

[FRED]

Re: Madoff's nemesis

Shakespear, all government officials are more or less corrupt. This is how the system works.

It may surprise you to learn that among our 10,000 iTulip community members are dozens of government officials and employees from around the world representing many organizations. We cannot tell you who they are, of course, as that violates our confidentiality policy, but here's a sample list of domains to give you an idea:

wapa.gov
treas.gov
llnl.gov
defence.gov.au
fcc.gov
fpc.wa.gov.au
dol.gov
hud.gov
cftc.gov
dmv.ca.gov
state.gov
nasa.gov
cdc.gov
environment-agency.gov.uk
med.govt.nz
education.nsw.gov.au

And so on.

We have folks here who work at the FBI, the Department of Homeland Security, FEMA -- yes, the whole black helicopter set

We have folks here from every branch of the military, high ranking and not so high ranking. They are here with similar concerns and interests about the markets and the economy as everyone else.

Perhaps you'd like to amend your blanket statement about government official corruption with a "present company excluded"? ;)

[GRG55]

Re: Madoff's nemesis

Shakespear, all government officials are more or less corrupt. This is how the system works. When one of them finds a trace of conscience and spine and decides he can't take it anymore and he has to stand up (like Spitzer and Blago did) he is immediately yanked.
Spitzer payed a prostitute from his own money and they used DHS/Patriot act powers to track the expenses (last time when I checked paying a hooker was not an act of terrorism) and bring them down. And voila ... all the fraud inquiries against Wall Street stopped.

Blago, is an Illinois politician .... enough said ... he did what governors and Illinois politicians do. The moment he decided to take a small stand of Wall Street ... surprise ... FBI wiretapping was used to bring him down. My bet is if the FBI would show the same diligence in investigating every governor we may have maybe one or two left standing in the office (that in an optimistic scenario)

This his how the system works. The most profitable scam (Wall Street) has to be defended at all costs, and for that, no clean official/politician can be allowed to get into office.

After reading the Markopulos, even a severely retarded person (I apologize to mentally challenged persons for being unfair and compare them to the SEC) would feel compelled to, at least, start an audit. But those people in the SEC knew very well that if they tried to do that, they'd be spitzered in an instant.

Is there any other explanation?

Omission gives rise to liability when there is a responsibility to act; as there would appear to be, in this instance, with the SEC.

But I think you are making a rather significant leap from omission & liability to deliberate collusion.

[Shakespear]

Re: Madoff's nemesis

We have folks here who work at the FBI, the Department of Homeland Security, FEMA -- yes, the whole black helicopter set

This is a rather intimidating language in my book in light of what was said. Are you suggesting that we should watch what we say here? Can you blame anyone for having such an opinion in light of what we are watching today?

I think a better response would have been to simply say that "All" is a bit of a strong generalization, which it was.

If someones says that he/she thinks all priest are pedophiles that is their OPINION. Much of what is said in many places such iTulip are simply opinions.

Madoff said that it was impossible to break SEC rules. A sweeping generalization and as it turns out just an OPINION worth nothing.

Well perhaps this is why

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/12/sec-chairman/

[FRED]

Re: Madoff's nemesis

This is a rather intimidating language in my book in light of what was said. Are you suggesting that we should watch what we say here? Can you blame anyone for having such an opinion in light of what we are watching today?

I think a better response would have been to simply say that "All" is a bit of a strong generalization, which it was.

If someones says that he/she thinks all priest are pedophiles that is their OPINION. Much of what is said in many places such iTulip are simply opinions.

Madoff said that it was impossible to break SEC rules. A sweeping generalization and as it turns out just an OPINION worth nothing.

Well perhaps this is why

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2008/12/sec-chairman/

It's my job on occasion to remind members of our golden rule: mutual respect for each other.

Think about it this way, if you worked for the government you'd get tired of hearing it said how all government employees and officials are stupid or lazy or corrupt. If you saw that expressed here frequently without management calling it you'd reasonably conclude management agreed and leave to go somewhere else. I've gotten after members for telling lawyer jokes. We have plenty of lawyers here. No doubt they have developed thick skins by now, but why hang out at the iTulip Bar & Grill where patrons can be overheard loudly telling lawyer jokes and management appears to be laughing right along with them?

The assertion "all government officials are corrupt" in addition to disrespecting iTulip members who work for the government is also a very unsophisticated view of a real problem here in the US. The US suffers from systemic not venal corruption, although the Madoff case looks venal given the family connection. The relevant concept here is "capture" and fixing it is going to be a challenge, and discussing that is constructive.

[audrey_girl]

Re: Madoff's nemesis

It may surprise you to learn that among our 10,000 iTulip community members are dozens of government officials and employees from around the world representing many organizations. We cannot tell you who they are, of course, as that violates our confidentiality policy, but here's a sample list of domains to give you an idea:

wapa.gov
treas.gov
llnl.gov
defence.gov.au
fcc.gov
fpc.wa.gov.au
dol.gov
hud.gov
cftc.gov
dmv.ca.gov
state.gov
nasa.gov
cdc.gov
environment-agency.gov.uk
med.govt.nz
education.nsw.gov.au

And so on.

We have folks here who work at the FBI, the Department of Homeland Security, FEMA -- yes, the whole black helicopter set

We have folks here from every branch of the military, high ranking and not so high ranking. They are here with similar concerns and interests about the markets and the economy as everyone else.

Perhaps you'd like to amend your blanket statement about government official corruption with a "present company excluded"? ;)

hmm interesting side proposition here -

Question: when you work for the mob and do the mob's bidding, get a paycheck from the mob - pray tell: what does that make you? who are you? what are you?

are you also are a mobster or maybe married to one or in someway enable the mobsters by you participation (active or tacit)?

at what point do you say enough and pull away?

in my lifetime and in what I have seen, there is very little evil that the US government will not do when it suits their perceived self interest from Chile (73), to Greece (66), to Iran (54), Guatamala (54), South Vietnam (63), etc. etc. etc.

I could go on and on and on.

and now all those wonderful surveillance and terror techniques used overseas for all these years are starting to come home to roost in the form of the patriot act, illegal wiretapping, revoking of habeous corpus, militarization of our police, etc. etc. etc.

people better start waking up

[we_are_toast]

Re: Madoff's nemesis

This is a rather intimidating language in my book in light of what was said. Are you suggesting that we should watch what we say here? Can you blame anyone for having such an opinion in light of what we are watching today?

and now all those wonderful surveillance and terror techniques used overseas for all these years are starting to come home to roost in the form of the patriot act, illegal wiretapping, revoking of habeous corpus, militarization of our police, etc. etc. etc.

people better start waking up

"Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep
It starts when you're always afraid
You step out of line, the man come and take you away"

[Supercilious]

Re: Madoff's nemesis

We have folks here who work at the FBI, the Department of Homeland Security, FEMA -- yes, the whole black helicopter set

We have folks here from every branch of the military, high ranking and not so high ranking. They are here with similar concerns and interests about the markets and the economy as everyone else.

Perhaps you'd like to amend your blanket statement about government official corruption with a "present company excluded"? ;)

C'monn Fred. This is way too picky. Are you upset that the oil non bubble brought today the crude price below $40/bbl?

You now very well what I was trying to say. Of course not all government employees are corrupt, and may of them are trying hard and against all odds to carry their duties as they should. (Unfortunately for them if they try to do the right thing most probably they don't have too many chances to raise in the hierarchy and even in some cases they are forced out of the system)

I was talking about government officials, about people who cannot get into office without political/financial connections and without making a pact with the devil. And if by accident a person with integrity raises to the top, as a rule of thumb that person will not last very long, usually being replaced with a more "malleable" moron.

Those readers from the "green helecopter" sector who are doing their job honestly and in good faith know I was not talking about them and since I have no proof corrupt government officials are not reading ITulip I cannot offer a "present company excluded". Sorry about that.

Fred if you can vouch there are no corrupt governemtn officials reading ITulip I may offer that disclaimer, but on the other hand you stated some time ago that we couldn't have an oil buble because among other reasons:
http://www.itulip.com/forums/showpos...34&postcount=7

6. No government deregulation (No change in government regulatory environment fueled the oil bubble; policy has been a constant)
[...]
8. Lack of enforcement of securities law or other market regulations (No instances of market regulators looking the other way while laws are broken)

and since I haven't heard from you a change in the official position (at least acknowledging that the Enron Loophole and Swaps Loopholes are not merely illusions and the CFTC was not assleep or looking the other way while cases like Vitol did happen according to CFTC reports) .... I may not give you a lot of credibility for your voucher.

IMHO opinion a "politically correct" stance should never be adopted at the expense of distorting the truth, because in that case it becomes just a "wide stance" which may be very pollitical, but it wouldn't be "correct" anymore.

[Shakespear]

Re: Madoff's nemesis

Fred, I lived in the US for a while and know that corruption in everyday settings such as dealing with the police, IRS, library, school, university is (I'm sticking my neck out here) rarely seen by the "regular" citizen. I will qualify this by saying "Based on what I observed Where I Lived".

Going higher, city hall, police HQ, governors, senate, congress , hummmm, well it gets dicey in that stratosphere of politics, but I think it happens. How much? No idea but probable more than most of us think based on what we hear on CNN or Fox.