First cracks in the "classless" US society?

[Tulpen]

Bail out banks and allow employees to keep their extravagant pay and bonusses. Bail out the "big" three on condition the workers take a pay cut.

[santafe2]

Re: First cracks in the "classless" US society?

Bail out banks and allow employees to keep their extravagant pay and bonusses. Bail out the "big" three on condition the workers take a pay cut.

This seems in line with the banks. Workers are being laid off everywhere.

This week brought a slew of layoffs, including Dow component Bank of America,which said its planned job cuts may grow to 35,000 over three years after it completes its purchase of Merrill Lynch.

Credit Suisse said it was cutting another 5,300 jobs

JPMorgan Chase said on December 1 it will eliminate about 9,200 jobs at the former Washington Mutual

http://www.cnbc.com/id/28193752

[ASH]

Re: First cracks in the "classless" US society?

Bail out banks and allow employees to keep their extravagant pay and bonusses. Bail out the "big" three on condition the workers take a pay cut.

Doesn't sound like class competition to me. Sounds like political influence of FIRE economy versus PC economy.

Also, it should be noted that American auto manufacturers actually have to compete on price to sell their products, and American politicians are more likely to understand a "real" business like car manufacturing as opposed to financial engineering. Hence, the impact of legacy worker benefits and current worker pay on the competitiveness of the American auto industry is not lost on the politicians. Insisting on worker pay cuts and reduced benefits in the auto industry is constructive.

[Tulpen]

Re: First cracks in the "classless" US society?

Doesn't sound like class competition to me.

Then out of curiosity: what would you consider class competition?

[Jeff]

Re: First cracks in the "classless" US society?

This is what class competition looks like on my blog:

We need a better social safety not to mention a social contract, and some of the big winners of the last quarter century are going to have to cough it up to pay for it. The rich bastards talk a good game, but they’ll fold like a house of cards the first time pictures like this surface. Visualize the scene of a public barbecue. Children playing, people drinking beer and sharing potluck. Men are taking turns with the handle on the spit. There are a few cops and the ambulance guys are there and it’s all pretty festive. That’s when you notice the body on the spit over the coals with the apple in it’s mouth is the field dressed body of the abusive rich bastard who closed the local factory and sent the work to China to save a few pennies on labor. No jury anywhere in the new America would convict anyone involved. The arrogant few who have been raping America these last decades talk tough, but the tough talk stops when they stop to realize what real class warfare looks like.

[don]

Re: First cracks in the "classless" US society?

This is what class competition looks like on my blog:

We need a better social safety not to mention a social contract, and some of the big winners of the last quarter century are going to have to cough it up to pay for it. The rich bastards talk a good game, but they’ll fold like a house of cards the first time pictures like this surface. Visualize the scene of a public barbecue. Children playing, people drinking beer and sharing potluck. Men are taking turns with the handle on the spit. There are a few cops and the ambulance guys are there and it’s all pretty festive. That’s when you notice the body on the spit over the coals with the apple in it’s mouth is the field dressed body of the abusive rich bastard who closed the local factory and sent the work to China to save a few pennies on labor. No jury anywhere in the new America would convict anyone involved. The arrogant few who have been raping America these last decades talk tough, but the tough talk stops when they stop to realize what real class warfare looks like.

You must not have heard the corporate media shills are outing the FIRE economy, ending their reign of terror :rolleyes:

Meanwhile, I wait with bated breath for the Kondratieff Wave connection to be revealed....

[goadam1]

Re: First cracks in the "classless" US society?

no banker left behind

[ASH]

Re: First cracks in the "classless" US society?

Then out of curiosity: what would you consider class competition?

Inflationary policies versus deflationary policies, for one. Those that got would prefer to avoid inflation, and might benefit from deflation; those that ain't got would prefer to avoid deflation and might benefit from inflation. As remarked elsewhere, inflation tends to redistribute wealth from savers to borrowers.

Tax policy is another obvious area. Those who are wealthy do better in a flat tax system than in a progressive tax system -- and they particularly favor things like sales taxes, since they are not obliged to spend all of their income. The wealthy also don't like capital gains taxes and inheritance taxes. Those who live hand-to-mouth tend to favor progressive taxation, low sales taxes, and care less about capital gains taxes and inheritance taxes.

Then there is the matter of entitlement spending. If you make enough money to fund your own retirement, then the scale of the entitlement programs seem like a bad idea, because they are inexorably drawing the country into national insolvency. On the other hand, if you never made enough money to provide for your own retirement -- then the entitlement programs seems like a good thing, since the eventual bankruptcy of the state won't matter to you if you died decades previously from hunger and exposure.

Stuff like that.

[BK]

Re: First cracks in the "classless" US society?

Did the Rich Bastard have a choice to not move the jobs oversees?

Imagine the Rich Bastard is running a Publicly Traded Manufacturing Company and the stock is tanking because the Cost Of Goods for their USA manufactured product is much higher than the imported alternatives.

Pension Funds and Mutual Fund Manager lose interest in the stock because the Company isn't competitive.

The Flithy Rich Bastard could run the Company and the Stock into the ground or move jobs off-shore.

I think it sucks - perhaps you are right the most folks will blame the Flithy Rich Owner when Alan Greenspan would be a better Barbecue treat.

Or how about the every President since 1993 that focused on driving up the number of People with Mortgages to the highest in the history of mankind.

There are a lot of Government Officials that should be on the spit before the Flithy Rich Bastard Factory Owner - but, Perception is Reality (and most people still don't get whats happening).

[Tulpen]

Re: First cracks in the "classless" US society?

Perception is Reality

Philosophies and reason fail when there is no food in stomaches of families.

[CanuckinTX]

Re: First cracks in the "classless" US society?

Did the Rich Bastard have a choice to not move the jobs oversees?

Imagine the Rich Bastard is running a Publicly Traded Manufacturing Company and the stock is tanking because the Cost Of Goods for their USA manufactured product is much higher than the imported alternatives.

Pension Funds and Mutual Fund Manager lose interest in the stock because the Company isn't competitive.

The Flithy Rich Bastard could run the Company and the Stock into the ground or move jobs off-shore.

I think it sucks - perhaps you are right the most folks will blame the Flithy Rich Owner when Alan Greenspan would be a better Barbecue treat.

Or how about the every President since 1993 that focused on driving up the number of People with Mortgages to the highest in the history of mankind.

There are a lot of Government Officials that should be on the spit before the Flithy Rich Bastard Factory Owner - but, Perception is Reality (and most people still don't get whats happening).

Totally agree here. I know the rich CEO's that run the companies are being held accountable, and in some cases for good reason when they are deliberately doing illegal things. Don't forget though they also report to a Board of Directors, who report to the shareholders, and in many cases those are the same blue collar people who are getting the pink slips because the company has to remain competitive. Too bad the workers kept demanding higher and higher standards of living and now realize they've priced themselves out of their jobs.

Last I checked this is still a capitalist society and companies are supposed to do what's best for the shareholders, not act so that barely educated employees can afford to lease a Mercedes and buy flat screen TV's. It's been a long time coming but there are very few people in the US that aren't responsible for the mess we're in.

The rich bastards just have a little more than most because they put in the time earlier in their careers to go get more schooling, or network, or work long hours, etc. Like everyone else though they seek to take care of numero uno - themselves. That's just human nature.

[Jeff]

Re: First cracks in the "classless" US society?

As a Filthy Rich Bastard myself, I think it's fair to say that a free market must be tempered with a social contract. Everybody gets to vote, and if income inequality becomes radical enough, there will be plenty of BBQ for everyone. I'm not promoting cannibalism here, just noting what can happen when the proletariat get restless.

I actually own a T shirt that reads, "Eat the other rich first".

[Tulpen]

Re: First cracks in the "classless" US society?

As a Filthy Rich Bastard myself, I think it's fair to say that a free market must be tempered with a social contract. Everybody gets to vote, and if income inequality becomes radical enough, there will be plenty of BBQ for everyone. I'm not promoting cannibalism here, just noting what can happen when the proletariat get restless.

I actually own a T shirt that reads, "Eat the other rich first".

Income inequality has run very high in the USA. In particular in comparison with other western economies.

[don]

Re: First cracks in the "classless" US society?

From reading the above, neo-liberal globalization is a phenomenon brought on by the arrival on the world scene of "rich bastards".

Apparently it didn't happen prior to the early 70s due to a dearth of rich bastards and the absence of cheap labor outside the first world.

[flintlock]

Re: First cracks in the "classless" US society?

I just wanted to say, some good posts here. Ash, you usually have some of the best written, well thought out ideas on this forum. Canuckin, good point about companies doing what is best for the shareholders. Who would want to invest in a company that didn't?

America's biggest problem is one of ethics. We don't think it matters anymore. Anything you can get away with is now fair game. This goes for business, politics, and for the workers. Once that breaks down, and the rule of law no longer means much, then it all falls apart.

The people running the country at all levels lack ethics, and the only conclusion I can come to as to why these people are in charge, is that the people voting for them must not think ethics matter too much. So they get what they deserve. The biggest break America could ever get would be if the US capital was swallowed up in a freak earthquake. Baring something like that, we are screwed.