R.I.P. Auto Bailout!!!

[Shakespear]

Re: R.I.P. Auto Bailout!!!

Asking blue collar workers to take some pain with the medicine is fine. But how to interpret this,

Dec. 12 (Bloomberg) -- The Federal Reserve refused a request by Bloomberg News to disclose the recipients of more than $2 trillion of emergency loans from U.S. taxpayers and the assets the central bank is accepting as collateral.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...Zlc&refer=home

Sounds to me like money is going out of that Treasury hose like manna from heaven.

[BrianL]

Re: R.I.P. Auto Bailout!!!

Every salary for every worker in a company that gets a bail-out should be tied to the national median income.

I'm not going to put too much time into finding the national individual median income (most is by household), but it looks to be in the neighborhood of 46-50k. That is only income, not benefits, etc as I understand it.

I've seen references suggesting the average income for UAW members is 54k-64k. Absolutely higher, but not to an extreme.

If the pensions are really the killer, what should be done? As I understand it, they tried setting up a separate trust to get the pensions off the books - I don't know what came of that. I can't imagine they just stop paying them. I doubt simply not paying is an option.

Again, I'm relatively uninformed but have a hard time separating out the 'thieving unions rip them off with people making 70$ an hour' articles from more fact based pieces.

[Kcim67]

Re: R.I.P. Auto Bailout!!!

What will it be first ED209's or RoboCops?

[Chomsky]

Re: R.I.P. Auto Bailout!!!

I'm not going to put too much time into finding the national individual median income (most is by household), but it looks to be in the neighborhood of 46-50k. That is only income, not benefits, etc as I understand it.

Not quite. From wikipedia:

In 2007, the median annual household income rose 1.3% to $50,233.00 according to the Census Bureau.^[3]The real median earnings of men who worked full time, year-round climbed between 2006 and 2007, from $43,460 to $45,113. For women, the corresponding increase was from $33,437 to $35,102.

[Shakespear]

Re: R.I.P. Auto Bailout!!!

Would be lovely to get similar data for management and upper management salary comparison over the years.

[c1ue]

Re: R.I.P. Auto Bailout!!!

I couldn't help but notice that none of the "extras' in the TARP bill involved the bankers giving up their private jets, the setting up of a Bank Czar, or the requirement that bank tellers agree to wage cuts...

Double standard? In Washington? Nah...:rolleyes:

Obviously the biggest strategic mistake the US Auto companies made was not giving enough money to enough politicians for their re-election campaigns.

GRG,

Yes, and then again, no. Because the automakers have the 'Bama behind them. Obama has said repeatedly and publicly that the automakers need to be helped.

The extras in the bankster bailout were:

http://www.taxpayer.net/resources.ph...nes%20By%20TCS

Note this is mostly the highlights, NOT a compendium.

1. Sec. 503. Exemption from excise tax for certain wooden arrows designed for use by children
   

Current law places an excise tax of 39 cents on the first sale by the manufacturer, producer, or importer of any shaft of a type used to produce certain types of arrows. This proposal would exempt from the excise tax any shaft consisting of all natural wood with no laminations or artificial means to enhance the spine of the shaft used in the manufacture of an arrow that measures 5/16 of an inch or less and is unsuited for use with a bow with a peak draw weight of 30 pounds or more. The proposal is effective for shafts first sold after the date of enactment. The estimated cost of the proposal is $2 million over ten years, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation.
The Oregon senators were the initial sponsors of the provisions. According to Bloomberg News, the provision would be worth $200,000 to Rose City Archery in Myrtle Point, Oregon.

1. Sec. 317. Seven-year cost recovery period for motorsports racing track facility
   

Track owners want to be able write-off the cost of their facilities on their taxes over seven years - a depreciation timetable many of them have used for decades. But the IRS has wanted to stretch it to at least 15 years and has raised questions whether the increasingly popular tracks really belong in the same tax category as amusement parks.
Auto track owners are simply trying to get out of paying more taxes - which they'd have to do if they deducted less every year. These owners have gotten plenty of tax breaks over the years from states and localities eager to get speedways. The provision would be extended 2 years till the end of 2009 and would cost $100 million. The provision encompasses all facilities including grandstands, parking lots and concession stands.

1. Sec. 308. Increase in limit on cover over of rum excise tax to Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands
   

Extends until December 31, 2009 a rebate against excise taxes charged on rum imported from Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands. A $13.50 per proof gallon excise tax is applied to distilled spirits imported to the U.S. Under this provision a $13.25 rebate is returned to PR and the VI, and is retroactive back to January 1, 2008. Permanent law sets the rebate at $10.50 per proof gallon, but the PR and VI provisions have generally been in place since the first Clinton Administration. The most recent extension of the $13.50 rebate expired January 1, 2008. Cost is $192 million.

1. Sec. 301. Extension and modification of research credit
   

The legislation reestablishes and extends the lucrative tax credit for companies doing research and experimentation in the United States. Companies that have benefited from this provision include Microsoft Corp., Boeing Co., United Technologies Corp., Electronic Data Systems Corp. and Harley-Davidson. The two-year extension is estimated to cost $19 billion.

1. Sec. 504. Income averaging for amounts received in connection with the Exxon Valdez litigation

The bailout bill would give a tax break to Exxon Valdez plaintiffs, allowing them to average out their punitive damages awards over three years rather than suffer a one-time tax hit from the Internal Revenue Service, as well as other provisions. Rep. Don Young (R-AK) is a big supporter of this provision. Cost is estimated at $49 million.

1. Sec. 601. Secure rural schools and community self-determination program.

Secure Rural Schools lead sponsors Reps. DeFazio (D-OR), Bill Sali (R-ID); Sens. Wyden (D-OR), Larry Craig (R-ID), are major boosters of this program that expired in 2006. In 1908 the federal government agreed to share logging revenue from Forest Service land with neighboring communities that could not tax the land because it was federal. As logging declined in the 1990s, the "county payments" program was initiated in 2000 to directly provide federal funding, more than half going to Oregon, to deal with the loss of revenue. The original version of this provision was introduced as a bill in early 2007 and was estimated to cost $2.2 billion when the OR and ID delegations came to agreement. To give the package more heft, Payment In Lieu of Taxes (PILT) was added to the package, bringing the total cost to $3.3 billion. PILT provides more general funding to counties for federal lands located within their borders. Sen. Reid (D-NV) talked about the PILT program being one of the important elements of the package when the Senate passed the bailout bill.

1. Sec. 201. Deduction for state and local sales taxes
   

Allows residents of states that don’t pay income tax to deduct, from their federal taxes, sales tax paid over the course of the year. States that benefit include Texas, Nevada, Florida, Washington and Wyoming. The bailout bill extends this provision for 2 years at a cost of $3.3 billion.

1. Sec 502. Provisions related to film and television productions
   

In an effort to keep film and television productions in the U.S, they would be eligible for a tax incentive program. Under this program, the cost of production of qualifying films would be permitted to be immediately expensed -- that is, fully deducted from income for tax purposes -- in the year the expenditures occur. This provision also makes permanent other favorable tax treatments for production. Historically Rep. Diane Watson (D-CA) has been a supporter (dating from its creation in the 2004 corporate tax bill). The cost is estimated at $478 million over 10 years.

1. Sec. 325. Extension and modification of duty suspension on wool products; wool research fund; wool duty refunds

The tariff relief (duty savings) is intended to benefit U.S. worsted wool fabric producers that use imported fibers and yarns as inputs, as well as U.S. tailored clothing manufacturers that use imported fabrics as inputs. This provision was originally introduced as a bill in December 2007 by Reps. Louise Slaughter (D-NY) and Melissa Bean (D-IL). It extends current law provisions until 12/31/14, and in some cases to12/31/15. The 2010 to 2015 cost is estimated to be $148 million.

1. Sec. 309. Extension of economic development credit for American Samoa
   

This extends by two years a previously approved tax credit, the American Samoa economic development credit. In general, this credit allows certain corporations operating in American Samoa a tax credit. The possessions tax credit allows these corporations to offset a portion of their U.S. tax liability on income earned in American Samoa from active business operations, sales of assets used in a business, or certain investments in American Samoa. The cost is $33 million, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation.

Other Examples:
Here are some other interesting provisions

Sec. 201. Inclusion of cellulosic biofuel in bonus depreciation for biomass ethanol plant property

Current law allows taxpayers to write-off 50% of the cost of any facility placed in service before January 1, 2013 that produces cellulosic ethanol. This provision expands the types of facilities that may be written-off to include production of other cellulosic biofuels in addition to cellulosic ethanol.


Sec. 211. Transportation fringe benefit to bicycle commuters
Allows employers to provide a benefit to employees for costs associated with bicycle commuting, including purchase and repair of a bicycle, bicycle improvements, and bicycle storage. This provision was proposed in 2007 in the Senate by Sen. Ron Wyden (D-OR) and in the House by Rep. Earl Blumenauer (D-OR). This provision is estimated to cost $10 million.

Sec. 323. Enhanced charitable deductions for contributions of food inventory

Extends by two years, until December 31, 2009, a provision allowing for deductions related to the charitable donation of “apparently wholesome food”—defined as food intended for human consumption that meets all quality and labeling standards imposed by law and regulations even though the food may not be readily marketable. This provision also changes the application of the law as it relates to donations by farmers and ranchers. The cost is $149 million, according to Joint Committee on Taxation.

Sec. 324. Extension of enhanced charitable deduction for contributions of bookinventory

Extends by two years, until December 31, 2009, a tax benefit for the contribution of books to public schools. The provision is worth $49 million.

Sec. 602. Transfer to abandoned mine reclamation fund

Transfers interest earned on money in the abandoned mine reclamation fund to the United Mine Workers of America Combined Benefit Fund, which helps pay health benefits for retired miners and their dependents who worked under collective bargaining agreements that promised lifetime health-care benefits. States with the most miners receiving benefits have historically been Pennsylvania, West Virginia, Kentucky, Virginia, and Ohio. This provision extends existing law to include a $9 million transfer for 2010.

I can't wait to see what the automaker bailout brings in. All those that failed the 'litmus test' in the bankster bailout...

[santafe2]

Re: R.I.P. Auto Bailout!!!

Dow below 8,000 by the end of tomorrow?
W.

AP
Union balks and $14B auto bailout dies in Senate
Friday December 12, 12:29 am ET
By Julie Hirschfeld Davis and Ken Thomas, Associated Press Writers
$14 billion auto bailout dies in Senate after talks collapse over union wage cuts

WASHINGTON (AP) -- A $14 billion emergency bailout for U.S. automakers collapsed in the Senate Thursday night after the United Auto Workers refused to accede to Republican demands for swift wage cuts.

Article link:
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/081212/congress_autos.html

The administration may not want to go to the mat for the auto companies and workers but it looks like they'll go to the TARP.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/12/12/news...ion=2008121209

[politicalfootballfan]

Re: R.I.P. Auto Bailout!!!

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[grizam303]

Re: R.I.P. Auto Bailout!!!

I remember seeing a clip of a line-level worker talk about how there were certain levels of management, and how the level 8's and above got free cars, gas, etc., and that if the company really wanted to save some money, that they could start with taking away that sort of thing. "They wanna save some money? Let's save some money."

Poor management from the top down. I bet the line-worker wage is a red herring in all this. I'd love to see the wages and benefits of management.

[don]

Re: R.I.P. Auto Bailout!!!

Can make a union man go all dewey eyed remembering the 'good old days' of the air traffic controllers sea change, when the Feds made it clear where they were going to stand in America's classless society. Congress now micro manages the wage and benefit landscape

[santafe2]

Re: R.I.P. Auto Bailout!!!

GRG,

Yes, and then again, no. Because the automakers have the 'Bama behind them. Obama has said repeatedly and publicly that the automakers need to be helped.

The extras in the bankster bailout were:

http://www.taxpayer.net/resources.ph...nes%20By%20TCS

Note this is mostly the highlights, NOT a compendium.

It's interesting to see that the extension and enhancement of the renewable energy tax credits have been left out of this list. I hope I didn't forget to say thank you to the American taxpayer for that little addition. Also, Obama is talking about extending this further by making the credit available as a refund if a person wants to buy solar but doesn't pay taxes and "increasing government procurement with a massive investment in solar energy technologies to power the federal government".

Maybe they can put Carter's solar panels back on the White House.

[skidder]

Re: R.I.P. Auto Bailout!!!

I would have thought that forum posters at iTulip would see this. Umm, doesn't it make sense to join in solidarity with these auto workers?



I just posted Sir James Goldsmith - U.S. Senate Speech on GATT in the video section, may I suggest you listen to this 1994 testimony and rethink what you are saying.

Absolutely spot on, IMO.
NAFTA & CAFTA were well camoflaged treasonous acts perpetrated by the same folks that populate CFR, Et, al.

Did anyone really interpret NAFTA as anything other than a lowering of our living standards? If one averages 2 billion people with a living standard of 2 and 300 million people with a living standard of 9, the answer isn't just a slight adjustment for the 300 million. The coup de grace is coming in 09, can't wait to see what it is.

[we_are_toast]

Re: R.I.P. Auto Bailout!!!

Not quite. From wikipedia:

In 2007, the median annual household income rose 1.3% to $50,233.00 according to the Census Bureau.^[3]The real median earnings of men who worked full time, year-round climbed between 2006 and 2007, from $43,460 to $45,113. For women, the corresponding increase was from $33,437 to $35,102.

Nice find.

Ok, all line worker salaries get cut to 45k, all executive salaries get set at 3 times median, all other salaries and pensions and benefits, get cut the same % as the workers salaries, and the gov gets a large equity stake in the company.

There! Now lets get on with it.

[politicalfootballfan]

Re: R.I.P. Auto Bailout!!!

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[we_are_toast]

Re: R.I.P. Auto Bailout!!!

Is the Communist system seriously being pitched in this forum!?

Those who pray at the alter of the unregulated, unethical, Darwinian "free marketplace" have had their chance and failed. Now it's time for the taxpayers, who have to pay to clean up their mess, to insert some fairness in the businesses where their money is being dumped.