R.I.P. Auto Bailout!!!

[LargoWinch]

Dow below 8,000 by the end of tomorrow?
W.

AP
Union balks and $14B auto bailout dies in Senate
Friday December 12, 12:29 am ET
By Julie Hirschfeld Davis and Ken Thomas, Associated Press Writers
$14 billion auto bailout dies in Senate after talks collapse over union wage cuts

WASHINGTON (AP) -- A $14 billion emergency bailout for U.S. automakers collapsed in the Senate Thursday night after the United Auto Workers refused to accede to Republican demands for swift wage cuts.

Article link:
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/081212/congress_autos.html

[Jim Nickerson]

Re: R.I.P. Auto Bailout!!!

Dow below 8,000 by the end of tomorrow?
W.

AP
Union balks and $14B auto bailout dies in Senate
Friday December 12, 12:29 am ET
By Julie Hirschfeld Davis and Ken Thomas, Associated Press Writers
$14 billion auto bailout dies in Senate after talks collapse over union wage cuts

WASHINGTON (AP) -- A $14 billion emergency bailout for U.S. automakers collapsed in the Senate Thursday night after the United Auto Workers refused to accede to Republican demands for swift wage cuts.

Article link:
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/081212/congress_autos.html

The futures a while ago are indicating the DJI at 8321, that is off 276, and earlier this evening that futures was down more than 300.

I read the article on Bloomberg, and someone there opined that perhaps the President will do something that would still amount to some sort of support to the car manufacturers. Personally, I do not know what is the best answer. The best answer was that all this goddammed shit should never have been allowed to occur to begin with--in reality that is no answer for now, but some peoples' heads should literally "roll" because of this crap, though none will.

[politicalfootballfan]

Re: R.I.P. Auto Bailout!!!

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[Jim Nickerson]

Re: R.I.P. Auto Bailout!!!

This is to what I was referring above. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...SsA&refer=home from Bloomberg.

Also earlier, South Dakota Republican John Thune suggested that if talks collapsed, the Bush administration might aid automakers with funds from the financial-rescue plan approved by Congress in October.

“I think that is where they go next,” Thune said. “I wouldn’t be surprised if they explore all options.” The Bush administration thus far has opposed that option, which was favored by Democrats.

[c1ue]

Re: R.I.P. Auto Bailout!!!

I agree that it is much too early to say that the auto maker bailout is dead.

After all, the bankster bailout was also rejected initially by the Senate.

Only after adding some $130B in 'extras' did it pass - so expect the same (or worse) with the Big 3 bailout...

[tsetsefly]

Re: R.I.P. Auto Bailout!!!

Damn those pesky auto workers for wanting a livable wage! How dare they drop the stock market below 8,000!

Livable wage, they where getting a livable wage... the economy is contracting, unemployment is higher, salaries are being cut, the automakers are selling even less cars and they want the same salary?

[sunskyfan]

Re: R.I.P. Auto Bailout!!!

Moral Hazard is a real thing. The problem with government bail-out is that you hurt those who made the right decision and reward those who don't. If you want to declair the auto industry part of the National Security protocol fine then realize this with careful thought. We subsidize Boeing, Lockheed Martin and others through the DOD so now maybe it is time to buy a couple million cougers (to make up for the short fall of sales this year for the big 3) for our troops and help out the auto industry at the same time. Woops, that's right, we only have 250,000 troops. So, we give each guy four cougers. What a mess.

[jayers4647]

Re: R.I.P. Auto Bailout!!!

I agree that it is much too early to say that the auto maker bailout is dead.

After all, the bankster bailout was also rejected initially by the Senate.

Only after adding some $130B in 'extras' did it pass - so expect the same (or worse) with the Big 3 bailout...

Agree with C1.
Head fake time.
Washington wants to give the money.
Automakers right or wrong get the money.

[politicalfootballfan]

Re: R.I.P. Auto Bailout!!!

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[we_are_toast]

Re: R.I.P. Auto Bailout!!!

If this happens, it will be the equivalent of Lehman going under. How many CDS bets were placed on the Auto makers? My guess, a ton! This is going to ripple back to banks, pension funds, and municipal govs. The Wall Street reaction won't be because a big rust belt industry went bust, it'll be worried over all the bets that have to be payed and who placed them.

Every salary for every worker in a company that gets a bail-out should be tied to the national median income.

[Adeptus]

Re: R.I.P. Auto Bailout!!!

• 14 Billion loan for big 3 auto's didn't pass Senate vote.
• Fed rejects Bloomberg's Freedom of Information about how it recently spent 2 TRILLION.
• Meanwhile in Canada, Nortel is back down to 40 cents, about to get kicked off the NY Stock exchange and likely to file for bankrupcy.
• Also in Canada, 52 Billion BCE Telco giant take-over deal by an Ontario teacher's Union fell through, and 1.2 billion in lawsuites about to be unleashed.
• And my personal favorite... Some guy named Madoff, a previous Nasdaq board of director, just admitted that the 17-50 billion of funds that his company managed on behalf of wealthy investors only has 200 Million of real money left and that the operations he ran "was all a big lie/ponzi scheme", where existing investors were paid 'profits' from money coming in from new investors.

Woo-wee... Fun times in the stock market later today, that's for sure.

[GRG55]

Re: R.I.P. Auto Bailout!!!

I agree that it is much too early to say that the auto maker bailout is dead.

After all, the bankster bailout was also rejected initially by the Senate.

Only after adding some $130B in 'extras' did it pass - so expect the same (or worse) with the Big 3 bailout...

I couldn't help but notice that none of the "extras' in the TARP bill involved the bankers giving up their private jets, the setting up of a Bank Czar, or the requirement that bank tellers agree to wage cuts...

Double standard? In Washington? Nah...:rolleyes:

Obviously the biggest strategic mistake the US Auto companies made was not giving enough money to enough politicians for their re-election campaigns.

[flintlock]

Re: R.I.P. Auto Bailout!!!

This little delay is merely designed to pit non-auto labor against the auto workers... just look at the setup:





Damn those pesky auto workers for wanting a livable wage! How dare they drop the stock market below 8,000!

$28+ hour plus great benefits for doing semi skilled repetitive labor isn't enough? My best friend's father in law was a GM assembly line worker. Retired in his early 50s to a lake front home and his wife never had to work a day in her life. He was making a lot more than just " a living wage".

I agree that GMs problems can't all be laid at the feet of the Unions, but they need to either do their part to cut costs or they'll end up with nothing. Then let them enjoy finding a job in the real world where they'd be lucky to make half that wage with almost no benefits.

American car makers long ago sold out their future for immediate profits. Same scam we are seeing today with the home mortgages. The people responsible for the auto mess are sitting on the beach in some exotic location, trying to decide which Bentley to buy. They took the money and ran long ago. Part of their scam was selling out to the Union demands as long as the costs could be deferred.

[Slimprofits]

Re: R.I.P. Auto Bailout!!!

• 14 Billion loan for big 3 auto's didn't pass Senate vote.
• Fed rejects Bloomberg's Freedom of Information about how it recently spent 2 TRILLION.
• Meanwhile in Canada, Nortel is back down to 40 cents, about to get kicked off the NY Stock exchange and likely to file for bankrupcy.
• Also in Canada, 52 Billion BCE Telco giant take-over deal by an Ontario teacher's Union fell through, and 1.2 billion in lawsuites about to be unleashed.
• And my personal favorite... Some guy named Madoff, a previous Nasdaq board of director, just admitted that the 17-50 billion of funds that his company managed on behalf of wealthy investors only has 200 Million of real money left and that the operations he ran "was all a big lie/ponzi scheme", where existing investors were paid 'profits' from money coming in from new investors.

Woo-wee... Fun times in the stock market later today, that's for sure.

BoA is cutting 30-35,000 jobs.

[don]

Re: R.I.P. Auto Bailout!!!

"semi skilled repetitive labor" How about throwing in poor cultural habits and bad diet. Slice and dice, baby. Play them all against each other. Seems to work, doesn't it You know the old song. First they came for the commie professors and the labor leaders. Then the gays and the gypsies. Next they took the Jews. The American version runs more along the lines of, "I got mine, fuck you." Remember when 36,000 engineers got the ax in the early 90s.:cool: