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U.S.:A European-style tax?

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  • U.S.:A European-style tax?

    http://cnnmoney.printthis.clickabili...2Findex.htm&pa

    Like it or not, there's only one way we're going to be able to pay for our ballooning deficit: a value-added tax.
    By Shawn Tully, editor at large
    Last Updated: December 2, 2008: 9:27 AM ET

    NEW YORK (Fortune) -- It's highly possible, if not inevitable, that Americans will soon live under a radically different tax system - one that the pundits and politicians aren't talking about.

    It's called a value-added tax, or VAT, and it's been used for decades to pay the bills and sustain the immense growth of governments around the world, from France to Mexico to Australia. Created in 1954 by a French economist, the VAT is the most potent, efficient machine for revenue generation yet invented.

    And if there's one thing the U.S. government needs as the federal budget balloons, it's a ton of new revenue. "The bottom line is that the income tax cannot support the level of spending that's projected, something other countries faced years ago," said Roberton Williams of the Tax Policy Center, a non-partisan research institute. Today the VAT raises almost half of the total government revenue in France, and a similar share in most of the developed world.

    The VAT is essentially a sales tax, except that it's charged at each stage in the development of a product instead of at the moment when the product is sold.

    Take, for instance, a car with a sticker price of $30,000 and a value-added rate of 10%. Ford might buy its steel and other materials for $8,000 plus $800 in a VAT tax. A dealer then pays $25,000 plus a $2,500 tax for the finished vehicle. Ford takes an $800 credit for the tax it already paid and sends $1,700 to the government. A buyer then pays $30,000 for the SUV and $3,000 in taxes. The dealer collects the $3,000, takes a credit for the $2,500 worth of taxes already paid, and sends $500 to tax authorities. Ultimately, the government pockets $3,000, or 10% of the retail price of the car, in taxes.

    The genius of the VAT is that, while the consumer pays it, the actual cash is mostly collected from producers before it reaches the retailer. Since the VAT is essentially a hidden charge embedded in the price of goods and services, raising the VAT doesn't arouse nearly the uproar caused by increasing income taxes.

    The ease with which a VAT can be increased points to one of its big drawbacks: Governments see it as an easy way to pay for increased spending, which is a potential drag on economic growth.

    Even so, the VAT would be better than the other likely alternative: A higher retail sales tax. If the national sales tax were raised to, say, 20%, consumers would cheat by paying cash to avoid it, and retailers would submit because they'd sell more goods by cutting the price 20%. With the VAT, every step of the manufacturing (and tax collection) process is documented.

    Make no mistake: A VAT may be unavoidable in the United States. The reason is that spending is rising far faster than the revenue that can conceivably be generated by the current tax regime.

    ...

  • #2
    Re: U.S.:A European-style tax?

    Ahhh...VAT. Another nail in the coffin of consumption.

    Would seem to require an entire rethink of the consumption based FIRE economy before this sort of "funny foreign idea" will gain any traction in the USA. And long before a VAT comes in, the deductability of interest expense on consumer loans & mortgages will have to be tackled.

    Not holding my breath...

    BTW, up here in Canuckland we cannot deduct consumer/mortgage interest from our taxes, and we have a form of VAT called the Goods and Services Tax [popularly known as the Gouge and Screw Tax].

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    • #3
      Re: U.S.:A European-style tax?

      There are many bad things about VAT:
      - essentially this is a tax on turnover, so it limits the growth
      - it advocates monopolization where you can create sophisticated chains to reduce the tax burden
      - and more

      I think VAT is the opposite to US tax philosophy :rolleyes:

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      • #4
        Re: U.S.:A European-style tax?

        Putting on another hat for a moment, people say how Americans spend too much and don't save enough, and implementing this sounds like it would make Americans spend less and save more.

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        • #5
          Re: U.S.:A European-style tax?

          Originally posted by rj1 View Post
          Putting on another hat for a moment, people say how Americans spend too much and don't save enough, and implementing this sounds like it would make Americans spend less and save more.
          Actually it means that Americans would pay more for goods and have even less to save.

          I don't see where a VAT is any different than them just inflating away the debt... either way the government gets to keep on spending and the little people get screwed by paying more for stuff.

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          • #6
            Re: U.S.:A European-style tax?

            Originally posted by Judas View Post
            Actually it means that Americans would pay more for goods and have even less to save.

            I don't see where a VAT is any different than them just inflating away the debt... either way the government gets to keep on spending and the little people get screwed by paying more for stuff.
            When you say "government gets to keep on spending," My question for you is where does the money go? What would happen if that money was not spent? Cui Bono (Who Benefits?) Who makes the decisions on where the money is spent? Does the society at large benefit from consumer spending or Government spending? Which spending concentrates wealth more?

            The answers to these questions are neither straightforward nor obvious.

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            • #7
              Re: U.S.:A European-style tax?

              Originally posted by Rajiv View Post
              When you say "government gets to keep on spending," My question for you is where does the money go? What would happen if that money was not spent? Cui Bono (Who Benefits?) Who makes the decisions on where the money is spent? Does the society at large benefit from consumer spending or Government spending? Which spending concentrates wealth more?

              The answers to these questions are neither straightforward nor obvious.
              Exactly right!

              Somehow there's an idea that when money goes to the government, that it is taken to a secret safe in the basement of a dark building and is withdrawn from the economy. In reality, the opposite is true. The government can't wait to spend it and get it into circulation.

              That's why I believe a tax increase on high incomes and corporate profits are beneficial in a recession. These are the people who will REALLY take money out of circulation and put it in a safe somewhere as they cry "cash is king". That's the stick. The carrot part of the equation is to give tax deductions for investing in key industries, ie Alt-E. Once the economy turns and the key industries start taking off, then start cutting the taxes.

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              • #8
                Re: U.S.:A European-style tax?

                When all is said and done the Economy is going to need validity and transparency because no-one will trust no-one.

                A VAT is much more tranparent than income or capital gains taxes. The most tranparent tax is the Transaction Tax. Everytime something is bought or sold in the economy there is a transaction tax much like the charge incurred when using a credit card. It taxes the only time the value of something is realized. Since it happens every transaction it must be kept low in an obvious way.

                The beauty of the American Constitution is not really what it tries to impliment (thought I love Freedom and Independence) it is how it impliments it: checks and balances. Transparency is the ultimate check-and-balance in an Economy.

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                • #9
                  Re: U.S.:A European-style tax?

                  Originally posted by sunskyfan View Post
                  When all is said and done the Economy is going to need validity and transparency because no-one will trust no-one.

                  A VAT is much more tranparent than income or capital gains taxes. The most tranparent tax is the Transaction Tax. Everytime something is bought or sold in the economy there is a transaction tax much like the charge incurred when using a credit card. It taxes the only time the value of something is realized. Since it happens every transaction it must be kept low in an obvious way.

                  The beauty of the American Constitution is not really what it tries to impliment (thought I love Freedom and Independence) it is how it impliments it: checks and balances. Transparency is the ultimate check-and-balance in an Economy.
                  Here's a subset of the Transaction Tax [specific to crossborder currency transactions] that I would expect we'll see resurrected for discussion at an international shrimpfest soon...
                  "Tobin Taxes are excise taxes on cross-border currency transactions. They can be enacted by national legislatures, followed by multilateral cooperation for effective enforcement. The revenue should go to global priorities: basic environmental and human needs. Such taxes will help tame currency market volatility and restore national economic sovereignty. (The name Tobin Tax and the original concept derives from James Tobin, a Ph.D. Nobel-laureate economist at Yale University.)..."

                  http://www.ceedweb.org/iirp/

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                  • #10
                    Re: U.S.:A European-style tax?

                    Originally posted by Rajiv View Post
                    When you say "government gets to keep on spending," My question for you is where does the money go? What would happen if that money was not spent? Cui Bono (Who Benefits?) Who makes the decisions on where the money is spent? Does the society at large benefit from consumer spending or Government spending? Which spending concentrates wealth more?

                    The answers to these questions are neither straightforward nor obvious.
                    No they aren't, or that predictable or definitive either. Theoretically moving monies from consumption into something infrastructure related is beneficial, but both opportunity costs and politics/cronyism (an example is the bailout bill trying to funnel tens of millions of dollars to ACORN) are so rampant now that I have serious doubts about the efficacy of sending money to the government.

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