India's Terrorist Attack: What we have today is systemic failure

[Master Shake]

Re: India's Terrorist Attack: What we have today is systemic failure

And exactly how many Islamic terrorist incidents around the world have been traced back to any involvement by Indian Muslims?

The proper question is: how many times around the world have terrorist attacks been traced back to homegrown Muslims, acting alone or in concert with foreign allies.

Also, last I read, the Mumbai attacks involved the Lashkar-e-Taiba along with indiginous Indian Muslims.

[hayekvindicated]

Re: India's Terrorist Attack: What we have today is systemic failure

The proper question is: how many times around the world have terrorist attacks been traced back to homegrown Muslims, acting alone or in concert with foreign allies.

Also, last I read, the Mumbai attacks involved the Lashkar-e-Taiba along with indiginous Indian Muslims.

Islam is incompatible with a modern society.

Quotes from the holy book of the "Religion of Peace":

Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority: their abode will be the Fire: And evil is the home of the wrong-doers! (3:151)
Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them." This because they contended against Allah and His Messenger: If any contend against Allah and His Messenger, Allah is strict in punishment. (8:12-13)

Let not the unbelievers think that they can get the better (of the godly): they will never frustrate (them). Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies, of Allah and your enemies, and others besides, whom ye may not know, but whom Allah doth know. Whatever ye shall spend in the cause of Allah, shall be repaid unto you, and ye shall not be treated unjustly. (8:59-60)

And Allah turned back the Unbelievers for (all) their fury: no advantage did they gain; and enough is Allah for the believers in their fight. And Allah is full of Strength, able to enforce His Will. And those of the People of the Book who aided them - Allah did take them down from their strongholds and cast terror into their hearts. (So that) some ye slew, and some ye made prisoners. And He made you heirs of their lands, their houses, and their goods, and of a land which ye had not frequented (before). And Allah has power over all things. (33:25-27)

It is He Who got out the Unbelievers among the People of the Book from their homes at the first gathering (of the forces). Little did ye think that they would get out: And they thought that their fortresses would defend them from Allah! But the (Wrath of) Allah came to them from quarters from which they little expected (it), and cast terror into their hearts, so that they destroyed their dwellings by their own hands and the hands of the Believers, take warning, then, O ye with eyes (to see)! (59:2)

That is because they resisted Allah and His Messenger: And if any one resists Allah, verily, Allah is severe in punishment. (59:4)

Of a truth ye are stronger (than they) because of the terror in their hearts, (sent) by Allah. This is because they are men devoid of understanding. (59:13)

Were the terrorists "extremists"? Or were they simply following religious scripture?

[GRG55]

Re: India's Terrorist Attack: What we have today is systemic failure

Unfortunately, as much as I hate to admit it, this is right.

India will face many more attacks in the years to come - due to a burgeoning Islamic insurgency movement within the country and the continuing disintegration of Pakistan which is now a banana republic breeding Islamic fanatics.

These problems are traceable to the decisions that were made by Congress leaders in the 1940s. But that is a longer debate for some other time.

If you believe this then you should urge your family and friends to leave the country, for it is surely doomed [short of detaining or deporting every single Indian Muslim, how would you expect the situation to ever improve?]

I obviously disagree with Master Shakes assertion that this is caused entirely by homegrown Indian Muslim militants. I think the circumstances are much more nuanced than this superficial explanation. You, of all people, should understand that.

[Rajiv]

Re: India's Terrorist Attack: What we have today is systemic failure

I believe that one terrorist was captured -- and it appears that all of the group were Pakistani citizens - Arrested terrorist says gang hoped to get away

em in Mumbai for three days were made to believe by their Lashkar bosses that they were not being sent on a suicide mission and that they would be coming back alive.

In a sensational disclosure made by Ajmal, the jihadi nabbed alive by Mumbai cops, the group had planned to sail out on Thursday. Their recruiters had even charted out the return route for them and stored it on the GPS device which they had used to navigate their way to the Mumbai shoreline.

This suggests that the terrorists were willing to undertake a mission which they knew would be very risky, but not necessarily suicidal.

Sources said that the bait of safe return must have been used by the recruiters to convince the wavering among the group to join the audacious plot against Mumbai.

Ajmal made another important disclosure: that all terrorists were trained in marine warfare along with the special course Daura-e-Shifa conducted by the Lashkar-e-Taiba in what at once transforms the nature of the planning from a routine terror strike and into a specialized raid by commandos.

Battle-hardened ATS officials are surprised by the details of the training the terrorists were put through before being despatched for the macabre mission. This was very different from a terrorist attack, and amounted to an offensive from the seam, said a source.

Ajmal has revealed the name of his fellow jihadis all Pakistani citizens as Abu Ali, Fahad, Omar, Shoaib, Umer, Abu Akasha, Ismail, Abdul Rahman (Bara) and Abdul Rahman (Chhota).

The account of Ajmal also strengthens the doubt of the complicity of powerful elements in the Pakistani establishment. According to him, the group set off on November 21 from an isolated creek near Karachi without the deadly cargo of arms and ammunition they were to use against the innocents in Mumbai. The group received arms and ammunition on board a large Pakistani vessel which picked them up the following day. The vessel, whose ownership is now the subject of an international probe, had four Pakistanis apart from the crew.

A day later, they came across an Indian-owned trawler, Kuber, which was promptly commandeered on the seas. Four of the fishermen who were on the trawler were killed, but its skipper, or tandel in fishermen lingo, Amarjit Singh, was forced to proceed towards India. Amarjit was killed the next day, and Ismail the terrorist who was killed at Girgaum Chowpaty took the wheel.

A trained sailor, Ismail used the GPS to reach Mumbai coast on November 26. The group, however, slowed down its advance as they had reached during the day time while the landing was planned after dusk. The group shifted to inflatable boats, before disembarking at Badhwar Park in Cuffe Parade.

The implication of this is that there were at least two groups of terrorists that came -- since a total of 20-25 terrorists took part in the operation. So it is likely that more than one ship was involved.

[louzbek]

Re: India's Terrorist Attack: What we have today is systemic failure

some interesting readings on this issue...

• Telegraph: Mumbai attack: 'British men among terrorists' "Vilasrao Deshmukh, the chief minister of Mumbai, was reported to have said that two British-born Pakistanis were among eight gunmen seized by Indian commandos who stormed buildings to free hostages." (info being denied)
• Indiatimes: US defence companies will get level playing field: US defense corporations seeking major contracts in India, including "the single largest one-time military contract in history," India’s buying 126 multi-role combat aircraft (MRCA). The deal is said to be worth $10 billion, "which would not be concluded in the term of this government but by the next government." Two major US companies vying for this contract are defense giants Boeing and Lockheed Martin. India’s Defense Minister A.K. Antony said that his recent meetings with US Defense Secretary Robert Gates and other Washington figures were primarily focused on "Pakistan’s rapid descent into chaos and the stepped up terrorist activity by renegade elements in the country, including provocations on the border and in Kashmir."
• The Attack in Mumbai II : The investigation of this years blast in Malegaon was carried out by the Anti Terrorism Squad from the state capitol Mumbai under its chief Hemant Karkare. Two days ago Karkare received death threats:
  Yesterday Hemant Karkare was killed when he responded to the attack on the Taj hotel
  All together four top anti-terror policemen were killed.
  All four were in the first response wave against the attacks.
  In total 14 police were killed and 26 wounded. These are high numbers. How many of them were ambushed?
  The right-wing, Hindu-nationalist BJP party is competing with the ruling Congress party for upcoming elections. A big election theme is Islamic terrorism.
  The investigation of this years blast in Malegaon was carried out by the Anti Terrorism Squad from the state capitol Mumbai under its chief Hemant Karkare. It figured that a right-wing nationalist Hindu groups, which included some former higher ranking military and had some ties to the BJP, was the culprit.
  The attack, designed to created fight-outs with police, killed the man who was the biggest danger for the BJP ( right-wing, Hindu-nationalist party)as he was revealing Hindu terrorism and made the BJP campaign against Muslim terrorism seem bigot. The current attack, which will reliably be charged on some Muslim entity, will help the BJP win against the Congress party.
• Terrorists did recee, set up control rooms in luxury hotels "The terrorists have identified the targets earlier. Somebody had told them earlier. Enormous planning went into the incident. The terrorists were dropped by a mother ship and travelled in rubber boats which they docked (at Mumbai)," Sibal said.
  Terrorists were not attacking people at random. It was a well though out plan, Sibal said.
  They had targeted certain key police officers even when they were wearing vests and protective head gears, he said, adding the terrorists shot them dead within minutes of their arrival.
• Who could be behind the Mumbai attacks?
  "Witnesses say the attackers were young South Asian men speaking Hindi or Urdu, suggesting they are probably members of an Indian militant group rather than foreigners."
  this much seems clear, they are far more likely to be indian nationalist extremists than outsiders or muslim extremists,
• Many more questions about the terror attacks
• Terror attacks in Mumbai; six foreigners among 101 dead.

• Independent: British plan to build training camp for Taliban fighters in Afghanistan
• Telegraph: US funds terror groups to sow chaos in Iran(and why not funding them to sow chaos in Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, India, Chechnya, Algeria...and so on. Mass Madness.
  

[politicalfootballfan]

Re: India's Terrorist Attack: What we have today is systemic failure

----nm----

[hayekvindicated]

Re: India's Terrorist Attack: What we have today is systemic failure

If you believe this then you should urge your family and friends to leave the country, for it is surely doomed [short of detaining or deporting every single Indian Muslim, how would you expect the situation to ever improve?]

I obviously disagree with Master Shakes assertion that this is caused entirely by homegrown Indian Muslim militants. I think the circumstances are much more nuanced than this superficial explanation. You, of all people, should understand that.

Thank you for your advice. Quoting Churchill, "an appeaser is a man who feeds a crocodile in the belief that it will eat him last".

My family will live where its ancestors have lived for 6,000 years. They aren't going anywhere - although they will, with millions of other Indians, vote for the parties that will deal with this problem appropriately.

[hayekvindicated]

Re: India's Terrorist Attack: What we have today is systemic failure

"Mumbai locals helped us, terrorist tells cops"

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/M...ow/3774106.cms

[GRG55]

Re: India's Terrorist Attack: What we have today is systemic failure

Thank you for your advice. Quoting Churchill, "an appeaser is a man who feeds a crocodile in the belief that it will eat him last".

My family will live where its ancestors have lived for 6,000 years. They aren't going anywhere - although they will, with millions of other Indians, vote for the parties that will deal with this problem appropriately.

1. It wasn't advice; merely a logical observation [followed by an as yet unanswered question].
2. Who said anything about appeasement?
3. When you go crocodile hunting there's no certain way to tell which are the maneaters, which leads to the possibility of having to shoot them all...

...and that brings us back full circle to the original observation...and question.