Russian analyst predicts decline and breakup of U.S.

[Starving Steve]

Re: Russian analyst predicts decline and breakup of U.S.

The Upper Midwest is blue. It is politically aligned with progressive politics and Obama. It is politically similar to Canada's politics, especially Saskatchewan and Manitoba. Minnesota's Democratic-Farmer-Labour Party (the D.F.L) is similar to the N.D.P. in Canada.

Head west from the Upper Midwest, and the Great Plains is a different story and solidly red. The Great Plains is addicted to Farm Aid and ethanol grants from the Republicans. While Republican like the South, the politics of the Great Plains is not redneck until you get south of Kansas.

Cross into Oklahoma, and put the guns in your gun-rack and the flag in your back window. You'd better put the Jesus fish on your tail-gate and maybe an NRA sticker too because you have justed crossed into the twilight zone. :rolleyes:

[World Traveler]

Re: Russian analyst predicts decline and breakup of U.S.

I've lived in Texas for 30 years, but I'm originally from Chicago (Upper Midwest!) and probably took those values with me when I moved.

There are actually quite a lot of enlightened people in Texas, especially in the urban areas like Houston, San Antonio, and Austin. Even Dallas is somewhat more progressive than it used to be. But forget the rural areas and counties - that's where hardcore Bible-quoting, true-Red seem to be concentrated. I was out of the U.S. on Nov 4, but I seem to remeber reading that Texas was a 55-45 split for McCain.

One change I have noticed since I've been here is that Texas seems to get more Hispanic every decade. For these folks, especially the immigrant-new citizens, Red-Blue, the Civil War, etc. don't matter. They vote on economic issues.

Since the U.S. Census forecasts a big increase in U.S. and Texas' Hispanic population in the future, Texas will tend toward less Red in the future. Who knows, some day it may tip Blue.

[Scot]

Re: Russian analyst predicts decline and breakup of U.S.

Saying good-bye to the South and those religious-right idiots down there could only be a big big PLUS for the entire North American continent. And let the South take their drug war and their English-only with them. Good riddance! Lincoln was absolutely wrong to keep the South.

Really? I'm a recent transplant to Alabama and I'm an also an atheist.

I see these "right-wing idiots" as a net asset to the country.

I also think the close-mindedness and bigotry of some of the posters here makes it difficult for them to see this.

How about reaching out a bit more? You no doubt think yourself so much superior to the "wingnuts" in the South that it seems to me you could at least show some charity to your inferiors and refrain from disparaging the entire ethnicity.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: Russian analyst predicts decline and breakup of U.S.

Oh COME ON .. there are tonnes of racist / republican partisan people who are just dying to lay this at the foot of Obama.

Well, yes, there are tonnes of all varieties of people in this great land. I am sure you can find any imaginable combination of viewpoints represented.

But as the recent election demonstrated, those of us who would blame Obama, for whatever reason or label you might put on it, are in a minority.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: Russian analyst predicts decline and breakup of U.S.

Really? I'm a recent transplant to Alabama and I'm an also an atheist.
I see these "right-wing idiots" as a net asset to the country.

I'm moved to Texas a year ago myself, from Kalifornia. I too am an atheist, a proud member of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy (Hillary's term), and proud to stand beside my gun toting, bible studying, neighbors.

I also think the close-mindedness and bigotry of some of the posters here makes it difficult for them to see this.

I suspect you're right Scot.

It's challenging figuring out which of the viewpoints presented here are done with a gentle sense of humor and tolerance for the differing perspectives of others, and which viewpoints are more rigidly held.

I'm no Kumbaya, can't we all just hold hands and get along kind of guy. Some folks have worked hard to earn my disrespect or lack of trust, and that they shall have.

But I sense a different kind of division in our land, seeded by those who would divide us for their own gains. I can't tell if it's getting worse or not, but it sure seems that way. We seem to be dividing along superficial cultural lines rather than favoring hard working, upstanding, straight talking people of whatever customs over the liars, cheats, scoundrels and worse.

Sometimes it takes hard times to bring people together, and to sort out what is important.

Fortunately or otherwise, hard times seem to be in the offering.

[dbarberic]

Re: Russian analyst predicts decline and breakup of U.S.

I am surprised that no one has mentioned the upper midwest. I know everybody thinks the south is great, but the upper midwest has one key commodity- better than oil, coal, natural gas or even gold. It is the one of the world's best supply of fresh water. Lake Superior could cover the entire continental United States in water-5 feet deep.
So, unless some idiot drains the lakes, I think the uppermidwest has a great future!

Since I'm living in NE Ohio, I keep on crossing my fingers hoping your right.

If and when the US makes a transition back from FIRE to manufacutring and savings, I think the upper midwest is poised for a comeback. Lots of idol manufacturing capacity and over abundance of labor skilled in making things.

Throw some wind turbines on the Great Lakes for kicks and we'd be all set.

[Shakespear]

Re: Russian analyst predicts decline and breakup of U.S.

Splendid Idea !!!! :-)

Throw some wind turbines on the Great Lakes

[Tim T]

Re: Russian analyst predicts decline and breakup of U.S.

This guy didn't really give reasons for the breaking into 6 parts. He only pointed out some differences in the six parts that I think either are not true or nobody cares.

"Growing Chinese population" - what the hell does that mean? That doesn't explain why the West Coast breaks off from USA. So what is the west coast gonna be 6-10% Chinese? Why would that matter? What about the Mexicans on the West Coast, seems more relevant but I still don't conclude it means anything.

"The South with its Hispanics" - Hispanics are everywhere and I believe New Mexico and Arizona have the most.

"Five of the poorer central states with there large Native American populations"? Large, he's got to be kidding. Does this guy live in Russia or something? Did he get his United States facts from a 1850 Almanac?

And the best of all "the north with its strong Canadian influence". HA HA HA HA HA HA HA. I have lived in the North and I love Canada, hockey, and maple syrup too but so what.

[algerwetmore]

Re: Russian analyst predicts decline and breakup of U.S.

There is way too much importance given to ethnic influences in the U.S.
This is not like Russia, where there are hundreds of years of bad blood.
I do agree that increasing numbers of all minorities will be voting their pocketbooks in future elections, provided there is still plenty of food.
My point is that waterways (cheap commerce transport ) will become increasingly more important as energy cost rise.

[metalman]

Re: Russian analyst predicts decline and breakup of U.S.

There is way too much importance given to ethnic influences in the U.S.
This is not like Russia, where there are hundreds of years of bad blood.
I do agree that increasing numbers of all minorities will be voting their pocketbooks in future elections, provided there is still plenty of food.
My point is that waterways (cheap commerce transport ) will become increasingly more important as energy cost rise.

russians can't understand the usa. we are law abiding but demand professionalism from our police. there they are not law abiding and the police are corrupt. if anyone is breaking up in the global crisis its russia and it's satellites, along with china and its ethnic provinces. it's in crisis that the usa shines brightest.

[Tim T]

Re: Russian analyst predicts decline and breakup of U.S.

russians can't understand the usa. we are law abiding but demand professionalism from our police. there they are not law abiding and the police are corrupt. if anyone is breaking up in the global crisis its russia and it's satellites, along with china and its ethnic provinces. it's in crisis that the usa shines brightest.

Great perspective metalman. Glad you wrote that, not sure what to think of that but had not thought it or heard that elsewhere. To play devils advocate here what would you say if I said the USA is only law abiding and demanding of professionalism from law enforcement because we have had relative prosperity compared to some other nations. We can afford to be nice, follow rules, and pay police well.

Thanks,

[D-Mack]

Re: Russian analyst predicts decline and breakup of U.S.

Oh boy, looks like this expert doesn't speak English


Here he is on Russia Today

[goadam1]

Re: Russian analyst predicts decline and breakup of U.S.

I predict that I would rather live in US than Russia.

[rj1]

Re: Russian analyst predicts decline and breakup of U.S.

The Pacific coast is all Chinese people, the South is all Hispanic, and the central plains are all Native Americans? Rather simplistic and tenuous assumption upon which to base the idea of dividing up the country. There is less regional cohesiveness than he imagines.

On an entirely demographic level, I remember a book stating there were nine distinct nations in North America (including us, Canada, Mexico, Central America, and the Caribbean), written in 1981 that was kinda updated by a different author in 1991, but only focusing on the U.S. Needs an update with the migrations that have taken place.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Nin..._North_America

The Nine Nations

Approximate map of the Nine Nations of North America

• New England (also called New Britain or Atlantica) — an expanded version including not only Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Rhode Island, Massachusetts and Connecticut (although omitting the Connecticut suburbs of New York City), but also the Canadian Atlantic provinces of New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, Prince Edward Island, and Newfoundland and Labrador, as well as the Gaspé Peninsula of Quebec. Capital: Boston.
• The Foundry — the by-then-declining industrial areas of the northeastern United States and Great Lakes region stretching from New York City to Milwaukee, and including Chicago and Philadelphia as well as industrial Southern Ontario centering on Toronto. Capital: Detroit.
• Dixie — the former Confederate States of America (today the southeastern United States) centered on Atlanta, and including most of eastern Texas to Austin. Garreau's "Dixie" also includes Kentucky (which had both Federal and Confederate governments); southern portions of Missouri, Illinois, and Indiana; and the "Little Dixie" region of southeastern Oklahoma. Finally, the region also includes most of Florida, as far south as the cities of Fort Myers and Naples. Capital: Atlanta.
• The Breadbasket — most of the Great Plains states and part of the Prairie provinces: Iowa, Kansas, Minnesota, Nebraska, the Dakotas, Oklahoma, most of western Missouri, western Wisconsin, eastern Colorado, parts of Illinois and Indiana, and North Texas. Also included are some of Northern Ontario and southern Saskatchewan and Manitoba. Capital: Kansas City.
• The Islands — The South Florida metropolitan area, the Florida Keys, the Caribbean, and parts of Venezuela. Capital: Miami.
• Mexamerica — the southern and Central Valley portions of California as well as southern Arizona, the portion of Texas bordering on the Rio Grande, most of New Mexico and all of Mexico, centered on either Los Angeles or Mexico City (depending on whom you ask), which are significantly Spanish-speaking. Garreau's original book did not place all of Mexico within Mexamerica, but only Northern Mexico and the Baja California peninsula. Capital: Los Angeles.
• Ecotopia — the Pacific Northwest coast west of the Cascade Range, stretching from Alaska down through coastal British Columbia, Washington state, Oregon and into California just north of Santa Barbara. Capital: San Francisco.
• The Empty Quarter — most of Alaska, Nevada, Utah, Wyoming, Idaho, Montana and Colorado from Denver west, as well as the eastern portions of Oregon, California, Washington, all of Alberta and Northern Canada (including Nunavut, although not yet created at that time), northern Arizona, parts of New Mexico, and British Columbia east of the Coast Ranges. Capital: Denver.
• Quebec — the primarily French-speaking province of Canada, whose legislature is called the National Assembly of Quebec, and which has held referenda on secession in 1980 and 1995, the latter of which the "separatists" lost narrowly. Capital: Quebec City.

Garreau also discussed several areas that he termed "aberrations":

• Washington, D.C. and its surrounding area, specifically referring to the area "inside the Beltway".
• Manhattan south of Harlem (he placed Harlem, and by extension the Manhattan neighborhoods to its north, clearly within The Foundry).
• Hawaii, which he considered an Asian aberration as much as a North American aberration.
• Northern Alaska, despite its categorization on the front cover as part of the Empty Quarter, was listed in the aberrations section of book.
• Although not included in the "Aberrations" chapter of his book, Southern West Virginia was named by Garreau as a region which had significant aspects of both Dixie (Appalachian geography and historical ties to Virginia) and The Foundry (coal-based and unionized economy closely tied to the fortunes of the Rust Belt), and could be placed in either nation. Garreau's conclusion about the region was "In good times, southeastern West Virginia can be considered an isolated part of the Foundry. In bad times, it is an isolated part of Dixie." Garreau placed the northern half of the state in The Foundry.

[rj1]

Re: Russian analyst predicts decline and breakup of U.S.

As far as the notion of the country breaking up, the chances of it happening is maybe 0.1% at best, but it is far more likely to occur in a crisis than when things are going well. I glance at the news today and I see the bad shape California is in where there is nowhere near enough tax receipts to fund government responsibilities, California can't print its own money, the Republicans won't raise taxes, the Democrats won't lower spending, and Schwarzeneggar wants to do both, so they're at the door of the feds asking for a bailout because their politicians are incapable of coming up with a solution not dependent on federal aid and other states' governors are saying they should not be helped. You have sections of the country that are openly cheering for the failure of the American auto industry, which will condemn a half dozen states and its residents to recession for a generation. And it's not like the majority of Americans are entirely in love with Washington to begin with. It's not a threat right now, but it's definitely not a good idea to test it either for people in favor of unity.

One thing to keep in mind is that some states could leave and others could not just due to fiscal reality. A place like Nebraska could not survive on its own even if it wanted to. California? Of course. Alaska? Oil money = yup. Texas? Ditto. Rhode Island? Not too much.

Not to mention I think that in spite of the election of Obama, our politics in this country are still very cynical. I remember after Kerry lost in 2004, there were some half-joking suggestions from New Englanders of that part of the country seceding from the rest, leading to some happy Republicans to state to the New York Times: "Do they think anyone will miss them? Don't let the door hit you on the way out." The right-wing would be more than happy to help any left-wing state to leave and the left-wing would be more than happy to do the same and kick out a right-wing state.