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Buffett's 37 billion dollar derivatives bet going south

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  • Buffett's 37 billion dollar derivatives bet going south

    Warren "derivatives are financial WMD" Buffett may be going down with the rest of the FIRE economy elites. BRK down 50% from the highs..this may be why.

    Buffett’s huge derivatives bet proves costly
    Shares of Warren Buffett’s insurance holding company are on the ropes this month, plunging 30% in part because the famed investor dabbled in an area of the market he has long publicly derided: derivatives. And due to a tangled web of financial relationships, they may be taking Goldman Sachs shares down with them.
    Investors are concerned about a $37-billion bet that Buffett made last year that U.S. and world equity values would be higher in 15 to 20 years than they were then, when the Dow Jones Industrials were trading around 13,000. Through his firm, Berkshire Hathaway, Buffett sold option contracts, known as “naked puts” to an undisclosed group of investors for around $4.85 billion, reportedly using Goldman as broker.
    The buyers saw the puts as a type of insurance that would pay off royally if stocks fell over the next decade. They were seen by Buffett as an easy way to pocket a quick $4 billion-plus, which was booked much like an insurance premium, even though he is famous for scoffing at derivatives as “weapons of mass financial destruction.”
    But easy money is the worst kind. The problem is that stocks worldwide have gone downhill in a hurry, and with a lot of the sort of volatility that makes put contracts swell in value. And due to accounting rules, this has made Buffett already need to mark down a $6.7 billion loss on the trade even though the trade has another 14 years to work out.
    Because of its solid-gold credit rating, Berkshire Hathaway was not required to put up collateral to make this trade. But now rumors are flying on Wall Street that the owners of the contracts have demanded that broker Goldman Sachs put up collateral for the rest of the amount due. Since the value of the trade could be enormous, the collateral demands are said to be very large, and fears that Goldman will struggle to make good on its obligation has panicked shareholders.
    Indeed one theory making the rounds this week is that Buffett put $5 billion into Goldman at around $125 per share in September not as an investment but to help provide funds for the collateral.

  • #2
    Re: Buffett's 37 billion dollar derivatives bet going south

    I wonder if GE was one of the unamed purchasers of the PUTs.

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    • #3
      Re: Buffett's 37 billion dollar derivatives bet going south

      Originally posted by Charles Mackay View Post

      Investors are concerned about a $37-billion bet that Buffett made last year that U.S. and world equity values would be higher in 15 to 20 years than they were then, when the Dow Jones Industrials were trading around 13,000.
      Is his bet that they will be higher in nominal terms, or inflation-adjusted terms? If it's the former rather than the latter, he may have simply been making an indirect bet on high inflation.

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      • #4
        Re: Buffett's 37 billion dollar derivatives bet going south

        Dave,

        Sir Warren's bet was actually 4 fold - we only know about the US one.

        Unless Sir Warren is an idiot, I very much doubt it was for inflated adjusted values. If it were, it is a special purpose derivatives as opposed to a very long dated option.

        You'll note, however, that the article was completely wrong in one sense: By Sir Warren BUYING the option(s), he was giving cash now in return for expected greater returns later.

        In a real sense this is a way for some investment bank to raise money fast.

        However, the real risk Sir Warren took on was the counterparty risk. If the selling entity disappears, then both his purchase money (spent) and his reward will likely also disappear. 20 years is a long time these days!

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        • #5
          Re: Buffett's 37 billion dollar derivatives bet going south

          Berkshire May Need Reserves for Stock Options: N.Y. Post Link


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          • #6
            Re: Buffett's 37 billion dollar derivatives bet going south

            Originally posted by c1ue View Post
            Dave,

            Sir Warren's bet was actually 4 fold - we only know about the US one.

            Unless Sir Warren is an idiot, I very much doubt it was for inflated adjusted values. If it were, it is a special purpose derivatives as opposed to a very long dated option.

            You'll note, however, that the article was completely wrong in one sense: By Sir Warren BUYING the option(s), he was giving cash now in return for expected greater returns later.

            In a real sense this is a way for some investment bank to raise money fast.

            However, the real risk Sir Warren took on was the counterparty risk. If the selling entity disappears, then both his purchase money (spent) and his reward will likely also disappear. 20 years is a long time these days!
            Sir Warren is the selling entity here. He was the one who sold the options.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Buffett's 37 billion dollar derivatives bet going south

              Right now selling naked puts by financial institutions "too big to fail" is obviously the "right" strategy. If the sh*t hits the fan they will be bailed out and if not they make a lot of money due to the extreme volatilty premiums.

              Perhaps the ultimate strategy for the Fed or the US government: just sell as many naked puts as possible.

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              • #8
                Re: Buffett's 37 billion dollar derivatives bet going south

                Also, these were European-style options. Can NOT be executed until the expiration date -- starting around 2017 or 2019 I think with some out to 2027.

                So the current volatility is irrelevant.

                This gives Berkshire nearly 5 billion to buy some (hopefully) undervalued stocks now and in the future.

                Personally, I thought a pretty good deal, thus long BRK.

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                • #9
                  Re: Buffett's 37 billion dollar derivatives bet going south

                  Blaze,

                  Yes, you are right.

                  Berkshire sold puts, gets cash up front and is left with a the downside should the bet not pan out.

                  That, and major mark to market losses all this year.

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