The Boston Globe: Depression 2009: What would it look like?

[dbarberic]

Depression 2009: What would it look like?
The Boston Globe

Lines at the ER, a television boom, emptying suburbs. A catastrophic economic downturn would feel nothing like the last one.

Interesting perspective. Worth a read. To long to copy and paste points here.

[metalman]

Re: The Boston Globe: Depression 2009: What would it look like?

Interesting perspective. Worth a read. To long to copy and paste points here.

saw this. waaay too sanitized. sure, everyone stays at home and watches tv, waits for the recovery to come. riiiiiight. written by a harvard idiot, quoting other harvard idiots, who never spent a day in want in their lives, misses what people actually do when desperate/pissed off...

- prostitution
- drugs/alcoholism
- gangs
- robberies
- muggings
- car jacking
- extortion
- kidnapping

leading edge... who's next?

Players taking security measures after murders

MIAMI, Nov 18 (Reuters) - Frightened NFL players are carrying guns and hiring bodyguards as they seek to avoid becoming victims of violent crime which has already claimed the lives of two players.

Seven players told the latest edition of ESPN The Magazine, to be published on Friday, that the murders last year of Washington Redskins Sean Taylor safety and Denver Broncos' defensive back Darrent Williams, had raised the alarm among some of the country's toughest sportsmen.

[tree]

Re: The Boston Globe: Depression 2009: What would it look like?

Nothing here that isn't obvious, and only a very passing mention of crime.

[metalman]

Re: The Boston Globe: Depression 2009: What would it look like?

Nothing here that isn't obvious, and only a very passing mention of crime.

long smith & wesson.

[audrey_girl]

Re: The Boston Globe: Depression 2009: What would it look like?

saw this. waaay too sanitized. sure, everyone stays at home and watches tv, waits for the recovery to come. riiiiiight. written by a harvard idiot, quoting other harvard idiots, who never spent a day in want in their lives, misses what people actually do when desperate/pissed off...

- prostitution
- drugs/alcoholism
- gangs
- robberies
- muggings
- car jacking
- extortion
- kidnapping

leading edge... who's next?

Players taking security measures after murders

MIAMI, Nov 18 (Reuters) - Frightened NFL players are carrying guns and hiring bodyguards as they seek to avoid becoming victims of violent crime which has already claimed the lives of two players.

Seven players told the latest edition of ESPN The Magazine, to be published on Friday, that the murders last year of Washington Redskins Sean Taylor safety and Denver Broncos' defensive back Darrent Williams, had raised the alarm among some of the country's toughest sportsmen.

adding ...

domestic violence
suicide
etc.
etc.

[Serge_Tomiko]

Re: The Boston Globe: Depression 2009: What would it look like?

Truly, a ridiculous underestimate of what would be the probable outcome.

Most academics are simply out of touch with human nature, and have no conception of how civilization as it has been known for most of written history is either nonexistent in most of the world or dangerously precarious even in so-called civilized places like the United States.

[Mega]

Re: The Boston Globe: Depression 2009: What would it look like?

Been carjacked & its not fun, but am thinking more & more of getting the Workshop moved 10-15 miles away from Liverpool. I like to do better but i think that's all i could do.

Some years ago i watched a bloke laying out all that was to come...........one bit of advice i recall was "Don't look like your doing well, or your got cash".

"Blend in".

Mike

[Mega]

Re: The Boston Globe: Depression 2009: What would it look like?

Hmmm.

Mass unemployment/Crime etc

Like the early 80's


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9J9rTZJBmw

Mike

[TroyPDX]

Re: The Boston Globe: Depression 2009: What would it look like?

This article was so monumentally awful it actually prompted me to write my first posting...
His vision of a modern depression era U.S. sounds almost like fun.. just all sitting around in our underwear on the couch watching t.v. and eating mac and cheese. Sounds like college! He paints a Pollyannic picture of people getting over their taboos of buying second hand clothing, of people recycling more, moving out of those evil suburbs, etc. In reality, if and when a critical mass of people in this country start to get hungry/cold for any length of time, the thin veneer of 'civilization' will crack with alarming speed. He says there 'might' be an increase in crime. That's like saying if you jump in the ocean you 'might' get wet.

This isn't the 1930's when the U.S. was largely rural and people were a great deal more self-sufficient in general. We have been insulated from severe hardships for a long time. We have grown accustomed to our creature comforts, in fact we feel entitled to them. We are soft. Combine that with the fact that there are hundreds of millions of guns in this country and you have a recipe for civil unrest which will be unprecedented.

There is a propensity towards violence interwoven with the very fabric of our national consciousness. I believe it has been kept in check by full bellies, relative prosperity, numerous distractions and of course fear of the authorities. Witness the looting after Katrina, heck witness the looting after the Phillies won the World Series. What might they do if they're angry and hungry and the level of unrest reaches a point where the authorities are stretched too thin to be of consequence?

The mainstream media is woefully incompetent when it comes to this economic crisis, but then all they've ever been good for is telling us what we want to hear. Right now most people just want to hear that everything will get 'kind of' bad for a 'little while' and then everything will be sweetness and light and fat paychecks again.
T

[sunskyfan]

Re: The Boston Globe: Depression 2009: What would it look like?

I agree that the article is too positive.

As my 83 year-old father constantly points out to me that when the depression happened in the 30s people still knew how to live off the land. Even the urbinites were recent migratories from the country.

We will see consumer zombies walking around not knowing what to do since they can't buy anything. Actually you can witness this now.

Instead of people living in Suburbs they will be living in Suburbans.

Nobody will be able to afford drugs.

A good dog and a good shotgun will be hard to come by.

Then again ... maybe not ...

[ASH]

Re: The Boston Globe: Depression 2009: What would it look like?

This article was so monumentally awful it actually prompted me to write my first posting...

In reality, if and when a critical mass of people in this country start to get hungry/cold for any length of time, the thin veneer of 'civilization' will crack with alarming speed.

Welcome to iTulip (or posting here, rather).

I don't think we will get a critical mass of hungry/cold people, precisely because of the danger you cite. I agree that we will get many more hungry and cold people, that crime will go up, and that there will be general hardship. However, my best guess is that we get increased statism rather than the dissolution of society. If things taking their natural course will result in too many jobless and hungry -- if a quasi-free market economy doesn't distribute the fruits of our remaining productivity widely enough to ensure societal stability -- then you can bet that the government will take over the job of distribution, with the blessings of the people. I'm thinking that at worst we see vouchers, rationing, and direct government control of some areas of the economy (WWII war effort model) in response to rising civil unrest, and that consequently the civil unrest never grows to unmanageable proportions.

That said, I do have a plan to survive the Mad Max contingency....

[rabot10]

Re: The Boston Globe: Depression 2009: What would it look like?

Been carjacked & its not fun, but am thinking more & more of getting the Workshop moved 10-15 miles away from Liverpool. I like to do better but i think that's all i could do.

Some years ago i watched a bloke laying out all that was to come...........one bit of advice i recall was "Don't look like your doing well, or your got cash".

"Blend in".

Mike

Mike I just got back from London - do U guys call those cars?

[Jay]

Re: The Boston Globe: Depression 2009: What would it look like?

Welcome to iTulip (or posting here, rather).

I don't think we will get a critical mass of hungry/cold people, precisely because of the danger you cite. I agree that we will get many more hungry and cold people, that crime will go up, and that there will be general hardship. However, my best guess is that we get increased statism rather than the dissolution of society. If things taking their natural course will result in too many jobless and hungry -- if a quasi-free market economy doesn't distribute the fruits of our remaining productivity widely enough to ensure societal stability -- then you can bet that the government will take over the job of distribution, with the blessings of the people. I'm thinking that at worst we see vouchers, rationing, and direct government control of some areas of the economy (WWII war effort model) in response to rising civil unrest, and that consequently the civil unrest never grows to unmanageable proportions.

That said, I do have a plan to survive the Mad Max contingency....

I see posts that mention mass starvation in the US or at least they see a lot of hungry folks running around. The two main reasons cited are the lack of credit to finance farming operations and the fact that we rely on petrochemicals and other oil based products to maintain high yields. I would think that when citizens are forced to change their habits of eating beef and other meats, which require very large amounts of feed, the pressure on human crops will be mitigated a great deal. I don't think very many people will be happy about the diet switch, but as we have seen many times over, humans can be convinced of almost anything if the message is hammered home enough.

[TroyPDX]

Re: The Boston Globe: Depression 2009: What would it look like?

Welcome to iTulip (or posting here, rather).

I don't think we will get a critical mass of hungry/cold people, precisely because of the danger you cite. I agree that we will get many more hungry and cold people, that crime will go up, and that there will be general hardship. However, my best guess is that we get increased statism rather than the dissolution of society. If things taking their natural course will result in too many jobless and hungry -- if a quasi-free market economy doesn't distribute the fruits of our remaining productivity widely enough to ensure societal stability -- then you can bet that the government will take over the job of distribution, with the blessings of the people. I'm thinking that at worst we see vouchers, rationing, and direct government control of some areas of the economy (WWII war effort model) in response to rising civil unrest, and that consequently the civil unrest never grows to unmanageable proportions.

That said, I do have a plan to survive the Mad Max contingency....

I think your viewpoint is very reasonable and well thought out. If things do continue down the path we're heading, I could envision such a scenario. The only question I would have would be to what degree and for what length of time could the government conceivably institute such measures? Obviously we would go even further into deficit spending, but at what point does the printing of more money make it meaningless, ala Germany in the 30's? And I don't believe we have a great deal of financial clout left with our neighbors in the world, so I doubt we could finance such a program with more international debt...once burned twice shy, not to mention they may have problems of their own to deal with.

I'm also a little skeptical about the ability of the government of the 21st century to rise to such a challenge in the same way they did in the 1940's. The federal government is so top heavy, so crushed under the weight of its own bureaucracy, that it might be simply too cumbersome to respond with the kind of expediency or efficiency necessary. I hate to bring up Katrina again, but it really did highlight their incompetence (as well, I'm afraid, as how dependent too many people are on the government to 'rescue' them)
T

[Yaowarat]

Re: The Boston Globe: Depression 2009: What would it look like?

Been carjacked & its not fun, but am thinking more & more of getting the Workshop moved 10-15 miles away from Liverpool. I like to do better but i think that's all i could do.

Some years ago i watched a bloke laying out all that was to come...........one bit of advice i recall was "Don't look like your doing well, or your got cash".

"Blend in".

Mike

Does that mean I have to mothball my Tommy Hilfigar sweater and penny loafers?

Oh god, this is gonna suck.