Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Synthetic CDOs. Make or Break Time

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Re: Synthetic CDOs. Make or Break Time

    I can relate to all your comments. The issue of CDOs etc seems very complex and not even understood by many who sold them or wrote the contracts, from what I can gather.

    I have researched the net and found many contradictory explanations. Here is an explanation on Synthetic CDOs from, of all places... In Paulson We Trust. lol. But it seems to me, to explain it a bit better than most. Good luck.

    Link to Full article - http://www.inpaulsonwetrust.com/2008...unfunded-cdos/

    I have removed some parts to try and make it shorter (not that it did much good lol). I would understand that Bank XYZ would be the SPV and is the Underwriter, the seller of Protection and, to all intents and purposes is effectively the CDO. The Issuing Bank (Counter-party) is the Buyer of protection.

    Bank XYZ (The SPV) is the underwriter on a Synthetic Unfunded ABS CDO and enters into CDS contracts. On these contracts, they are the seller of protection. The buyer of protection (the counterparty) will make the fixed monthly payments to the CDO.

    These contracts are combined to form the one billion dollar CDO that gets marketed to investors. This one billion gets sliced into tranches. Tranche A (the most senior) is 600 million. Tranche B is 200 million, Tranche C is 150 Million, and the Equity (most risky) is 50 million.

    It seems logical to assume that the Investors would then buy these tranches at par when the tranches are sold. The CDO would have 1 billion on deposit to cover the Credit Events that might emerge in the worst case scenario that every asset completely defaulted.

    The problem here is that in many of these Synthetic ABS CDO’s, the most senior tranche was unfunded. This means that Tranche A puts no money upfront when the CDO is created. In return Tranche A (rated an implied AAA) receives something in the ballpark of 31 bps (0.31% per annum). The other classes are funded so Tranche B (rated AA) pays 200 million and gets 3 Month Libor + 150 bps. Tranche C (rated A) pays 150 million and gets 3 Month Libor plus 250 bps. Equity pays 50 million and gets an expected 8 to 12% per annum. So at issuance, you have a CDO that has sold protection on one billion in subprime asset backed securities that are rated AAA through BBB. This CDO, after getting the funding, now has 400 million on deposit in a GIC account. For ease of explanation, think of a GIC account as a safe place where the 400 million is placed that gets slightly less than 3 Month Libor each quarter. These interest proceeds from the GIC flow into the deal each quarter along with the monthly premiums received for selling protection on CDS contracts.

    In theory, this financial wizardry seems to create a great opportunity for the Senior Tranche. They put up $0 and get their 31 bps each quarter. If there are few defaults, as is expected, then no big deal. You just take a portion of the 400 million from the GIC account and use it cover the credit events. What are the odds that over 40% of assets in a billion dollar portfolio made up of AAA through BBB default? The answer from the credit rating agencies was not only that it was improbable but impossible.

    Well, the impossible happened. The subprime assets that the Synthetic Unfunded ABS CDO sold protection on got downgraded left and right. The GIC accounts got smaller and smaller as they were dipped into to settle credit events. This gradually wiped out principal on the lower tranches. The counterparty (the buyer of protection) then begins to worry that the seller of protection will be able to live up to their end. They place a call to the valuation agent. The valuation agent comes back and says the remaining assets that the CDS references are valued at 20 cents on the dollar. This valuation would typically happen before the GIC balance was zero but let’s assume the GIC balance is completely wiped out when this valuation is given. B, C, and Equity lose everything. (Remember, their 400 million was used to settle the first 400 million in credit events). You now have 600 million in CDS notional with a value of 20 cents on the dollar for the reference obligations. This means that if the CDO wanted to terminate all of it CDS positions today then it would have to put up $480 million (600mm *.20 = 120mm.. so 600mm – 120mm = 480mm). Where does it get this 480 million? The Senior Tranche. Ouch. The Senior Tranche goes from getting $450k per quarter on their 31bps for their unfunded 600mm to having to put up 480mm dollar to cover the losses.


    I would suggest that because the CDOs were written whereby Defaults were against companies (rather than a default on a loan that the Bank might have had on its books), the Banks would benefit because they have lost nothing other than pay a premium for the protection. They need not have had any dealings at all with Fannie, AIG, Lehman etc. It seems to me that they just used these companies as default triggers because they knew they would fall, or at least had a good chance of failing.

    As a side note, I understand that most, if not all of these contracts are denominated in USD and so must be settled in USD. In light of the fact that there has recently been a rather large increase in Currency Swaps between the Fed and foreign CBs, could these two issues be related ??


    Cheers
    Louie.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Synthetic CDOs. Make or Break Time

      Originally posted by Louie.G View Post
      I can relate to all your comments. The issue of CDOs etc seems very complex and not even understood by many who sold them or wrote the contracts, from what I can gather.

      I have researched the net and found many contradictory explanations. Here is an explanation on Synthetic CDOs from, of all places... In Paulson We Trust. lol. But it seems to me, to explain it a bit better than most. Good luck.

      Link to Full article - http://www.inpaulsonwetrust.com/2008...unfunded-cdos/

      I have removed some parts to try and make it shorter (not that it did much good lol). I would understand that Bank XYZ would be the SPV and is the Underwriter, the seller of Protection and, to all intents and purposes is effectively the CDO. The Issuing Bank (Counter-party) is the Buyer of protection.

      Bank XYZ (The SPV) is the underwriter on a Synthetic Unfunded ABS CDO and enters into CDS contracts. On these contracts, they are the seller of protection. The buyer of protection (the counterparty) will make the fixed monthly payments to the CDO.

      These contracts are combined to form the one billion dollar CDO that gets marketed to investors. This one billion gets sliced into tranches. Tranche A (the most senior) is 600 million. Tranche B is 200 million, Tranche C is 150 Million, and the Equity (most risky) is 50 million.

      It seems logical to assume that the Investors would then buy these tranches at par when the tranches are sold. The CDO would have 1 billion on deposit to cover the Credit Events that might emerge in the worst case scenario that every asset completely defaulted.

      The problem here is that in many of these Synthetic ABS CDO’s, the most senior tranche was unfunded. This means that Tranche A puts no money upfront when the CDO is created. In return Tranche A (rated an implied AAA) receives something in the ballpark of 31 bps (0.31% per annum). The other classes are funded so Tranche B (rated AA) pays 200 million and gets 3 Month Libor + 150 bps. Tranche C (rated A) pays 150 million and gets 3 Month Libor plus 250 bps. Equity pays 50 million and gets an expected 8 to 12% per annum. So at issuance, you have a CDO that has sold protection on one billion in subprime asset backed securities that are rated AAA through BBB. This CDO, after getting the funding, now has 400 million on deposit in a GIC account. For ease of explanation, think of a GIC account as a safe place where the 400 million is placed that gets slightly less than 3 Month Libor each quarter. These interest proceeds from the GIC flow into the deal each quarter along with the monthly premiums received for selling protection on CDS contracts.

      In theory, this financial wizardry seems to create a great opportunity for the Senior Tranche. They put up $0 and get their 31 bps each quarter. If there are few defaults, as is expected, then no big deal. You just take a portion of the 400 million from the GIC account and use it cover the credit events. What are the odds that over 40% of assets in a billion dollar portfolio made up of AAA through BBB default? The answer from the credit rating agencies was not only that it was improbable but impossible.

      Well, the impossible happened. The subprime assets that the Synthetic Unfunded ABS CDO sold protection on got downgraded left and right. The GIC accounts got smaller and smaller as they were dipped into to settle credit events. This gradually wiped out principal on the lower tranches. The counterparty (the buyer of protection) then begins to worry that the seller of protection will be able to live up to their end. They place a call to the valuation agent. The valuation agent comes back and says the remaining assets that the CDS references are valued at 20 cents on the dollar. This valuation would typically happen before the GIC balance was zero but let’s assume the GIC balance is completely wiped out when this valuation is given. B, C, and Equity lose everything. (Remember, their 400 million was used to settle the first 400 million in credit events). You now have 600 million in CDS notional with a value of 20 cents on the dollar for the reference obligations. This means that if the CDO wanted to terminate all of it CDS positions today then it would have to put up $480 million (600mm *.20 = 120mm.. so 600mm – 120mm = 480mm). Where does it get this 480 million? The Senior Tranche. Ouch. The Senior Tranche goes from getting $450k per quarter on their 31bps for their unfunded 600mm to having to put up 480mm dollar to cover the losses.

      I would suggest that because the CDOs were written whereby Defaults were against companies (rather than a default on a loan that the Bank might have had on its books), the Banks would benefit because they have lost nothing other than pay a premium for the protection. They need not have had any dealings at all with Fannie, AIG, Lehman etc. It seems to me that they just used these companies as default triggers because they knew they would fall, or at least had a good chance of failing.

      As a side note, I understand that most, if not all of these contracts are denominated in USD and so must be settled in USD. In light of the fact that there has recently been a rather large increase in Currency Swaps between the Fed and foreign CBs, could these two issues be related ??


      Cheers
      Louie.
      Thanks Louie. Your description is perfect and easy to follow.
      I'd say the seniors will no doubt default on payment of the 480mil.
      I thought that these contracts acted as insurance against default by millions of middling mortgage paying citizens. If the seniors don't pay the 480mil the banks could be really screwed if they are counting on getting the last 480mil as replacement for the millions of defaulted mortgages. Am I wrong here?

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Synthetic CDOs. Make or Break Time

        Originally posted by Louie.G View Post

        As a side note, I understand that most, if not all of these contracts are denominated in USD and so must be settled in USD. In light of the fact that there has recently been a rather large increase in Currency Swaps between the Fed and foreign CBs, could these two issues be related ??
        good point. I'm sure its got its got a lot to do with it if rogue trading from European banks like societe generale is anything to go by.

        Good article by the way. The problem with these derivatives is that there are only so many aspects to them, but there are still quite a few and it can get confusing how all the pieces are put together and which ones get left out etc.

        There was a post on iTulip that I can't find about some guy who got involved in wall st worked for a hedge fund and started getting seriously interested in shorting subprime, did so got seriously rich, and is now talking about. Good read if you can find it, hopefully someone else knows what i'm talking about and can post the link. Anyway he got talking to one of the dealers and the dealer said he loved guys who were shorting the market, this confused the guy, but then he realised that this was because the dealer needed someone to go the other side of the trade for the excess demand for subprime investments over actual subprime borrowers. So all this synthetic creation was a way to cater for this excess demand as long as there was someone to go short.

        Problem was the guys going long were often naive overseas investors such as local municipalities flush with tax revenues from inflated assets and trying to get a good return on what they were being told were safe assets, and the smart hegies could go thankyou very much! So it was these naive guys that were actually putting up the capital I would think.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Synthetic CDOs. Make or Break Time

          Originally posted by marvenger View Post
          There was a post on iTulip that I can't find about some guy who got involved in wall st worked for a hedge fund and started getting seriously interested in shorting subprime, did so got seriously rich, and is now talking about.
          Babbitd posted it here:

          http://www.itulip.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5971

          Original article - Hedge Fund Manager: Goodbye and F---- You

          http://www.portfolio.com/views/blogs...dbye-and-f-you

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Synthetic CDOs. Make or Break Time

            Originally posted by kingcopper View Post
            Thanks Louie. Your description is perfect and easy to follow.
            I'd say the seniors will no doubt default on payment of the 480mil.
            I thought that these contracts acted as insurance against default by millions of middling mortgage paying citizens. If the seniors don't pay the 480mil the banks could be really screwed if they are counting on getting the last 480mil as replacement for the millions of defaulted mortgages. Am I wrong here?
            No I think you are right, but I am not an economist so don't take my word for it. If the contracts are as they were described above, and my feeling is that they are, then yes, if the seniors don't pay the Banks are screwed.

            However, I also get the feeling that there are often Banks on both sides. The Bankers I know (in fact mine get pissy at me cause I tell them they are not Bank Mangers but merely second hand money salesmen, which seems to be a compliment to them these days lmao) are all greedy bastards. I don't believe for a minute, that they haven't bought a bunch of these CDOs etc just to build their investment portfolios. Being Bankers they would take the Senior Tranche cause, no money down yet interest paid. An ideal Bankers investment. If that is the case then a lot of the money will go round and round so the end result will not necessarily be in the tens of trillions, but may only be a few hundred billion.

            Seems the big loosers will be the pensions funds, local Governments etc. Time will tell I guess, but it will take at least 3 - 4 years to get it sorted, based on an average 5 year contract. However the race to 9 defaults could speed things up.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Synthetic CDOs. Make or Break Time

              Originally posted by sadsack View Post

              Original article - Hedge Fund Manager: Goodbye and F---- You

              http://www.portfolio.com/views/blogs...dbye-and-f-you
              Wrong article. I think he was actually talking about this one:

              http://www.portfolio.com/news-market...ts-Boom?page=0

              “Then he said something that blew my mind,” Eisman tells me. “He says, ‘I love guys like you who short my market. Without you, I don’t have anything to buy.’ ”

              That’s when Eisman finally got it. Here he’d been making these side bets with Goldman Sachs and Deutsche Bank on the fate of the BBB tranche without fully understanding why those firms were so eager to make the bets. Now he saw. There weren’t enough Americans with shitty credit taking out loans to satisfy investors’ appetite for the end product. The firms used Eisman’s bet to synthesize more of them.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Synthetic CDOs. Make or Break Time

                yep that's the one. sadsack's article is great too

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Synthetic CDOs. Make or Break Time

                  without overseas pension funds etc buying up the BBB tranches you couldn't have the senior tranches with nothing down.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Synthetic CDOs. Make or Break Time

                    Here is an update. It seems Bear Sterns, Countrywide and Merrill Lynch did not default, because they were bought, so we only have four defaults so far. Seems like we will make the nine with plenty to spare. Enjoy....

                    Link to the full article - http://www.businessspectator.com.au/...cument&src=kgb

                    Here is a form guide on 31 companies that have either defaulted already and are most likely to do. I am indebted to IMF Australia, the litigation funder that has been studying synthetic CDOs, which provided the basis of list below, which I have updated and expanded.

                    American International Group
                    The US government lent $US123 billion to AIG in September and October, and by all accounts this has blown out to $US150 billion. In return for that the government got 80 per cent of the company’s equity. The company is now selling assets in an attempt to repay the loan, and while it is unlikely to raise enough cash to do that, it won’t default unless the government decides to let it.

                    AMBAC (a monoline insurer)
                    Last week Ambac was downgraded again by both Standard and Poor’s and Moody’s and the stock price fell 30 per cent to 83 US cents (it was $US24.74 last November). Then on Thursday the price soared 80 per cent after the company paid $US1 billion to get out of four CDO guarantees worth $US3.5 billion. Reuters reported that research firm Friedman, Billings, Ramsey said Ambac's contract cancellations were "positive," but did not "answer ongoing business model concerns." Still a likely default.

                    Bear Stearns
                    Taken over by JPMorgan Chase in March. If JPMorgan defaults (see below) this would therefore result in two defaults.

                    Beazer Homes (home builder)
                    Its share price has crashed from $US9 in September to just above $US1 now as house building in the US has virtually stopped. It’s due to post its annual results on December 2. In the meantime the Securities and Exchange Commission is investigating the company over accounting procedures. The SEC alleges that it fraudulently altered its earnings and improperly recorded $US100 million in earnings in 2006. Likely to default.

                    Centex (home builder)
                    The company lost $US171.9 million in the September quarter and the shares have fallen from $US30 to $US5.50. Centex is now selling land to survive.

                    Citigroup
                    Who would have thought we would be raising questions about the survival of Citigroup, but we are. Two weeks ago the CEO Vikram Pandit made 52,000 job cuts and last week the shares responded by falling 60 per cent. As the New York Times reported last week, only two months ago Citigroup emerged from the wreckage of the financial crisis as one of the few titans left standing; now it is on its knees. The NYT attributes much of its problems to the failure of its takeover of Wachovia, after Wells Fargo swooped in with a higher offer. May be too big to be allowed to fail, though the government will probably have to do an AIG with it.

                    Countrywide (mortgage broker)
                    Swallowed by Bank of America, and apparently guilty of fraud and dishonesty. It is now the subject of many lawsuits, including from the State of California. As with Bear Stearns, if Bank of America defaults, it will cause two defaults; that seems unlikely, but anything’s possible these days.

                    Fannie Mae (mortgage wholesaler)
                    This company was placed into conservatorship by the Federal Housing Finance Agency in early September 2008. The board of directors and senior management were expelled. Shares representing 80 per cent of the company were issued to the government. Dividends were suspended. This company has defaulted on its debt.

                    FGIC (insurance company)
                    Sold most of its business to MBIA (see below) in August. Although this was a positive move, it left the company with a lot of residential mortgage backed securities and CDOs that were sinking in value. This company seems likely to default eventually.

                    Freddie Mac
                    Like Fannie Mae it was placed in conservatorship in September, which was an act of default.

                    FSA (insurance company)
                    This used to be owned by the Belgian-French bank Dexia, and was sold this month to Assured Guaranty Ltd. However, its future is neither assured nor guaranteed, and parent and new subsidiary are under financial stress. Fitch Ratings has commented that FSA is still a separate entity for the purposes on default calculations.

                    Genworth Financial (insurance company)
                    The company announced a third quarter loss and was downgraded by Moody’s. Last sighted trying to buy a bank so it could get its hands on some of the $US700 billion TARP money from the government. Unlikely to make it.

                    Goldman Sachs (investment bank, now bank)
                    Having applied and been granted bank status, Goldman Sachs is very unlikely to fail, although it is reporting losses and its share price has slumped. That latest plan is to issue debt guaranteed by the government body, FDIC.

                    Hovnanian (home builder)
                    As with most US home builders in the list of 32 companies under pressure, Hovnanian is moving inexorably downwards. As at 10 November 2008, it was trading at $US3.36, down from above $US12 in May 2008. It is now being sued by Californian homeowners for fraud and breach of contract. Without government assistance, it is likely to fail.

                    JP Morgan
                    Shares fell 50 per cent last month in sympathy with Citigroup, but probably too big to fail.

                    KB Homes (home builder)
                    A few months ago this company was trading at $US17.72. Since then, it has fallen as low as $US7, and is now $US8.02. In early November it cut its quarterly dividend by 75 per cent. As with all of the homebuilders this company will struggle through the housing downturn.

                    Lehman Brothers
                    Filed for bankruptcy on 15 September 2008, immediately causing a massive upheaval in financial markets. The company has $US613 billion in debt and is the third of these 30 companies to default. Investors are currently pushing for an independent investigation of fraudulent practices at the company.

                    Lennar (home builder)
                    This company is the second biggest homebuilder in the US and may be better positioned than most to survive a downturn.

                    Masco (home products)
                    Fitch has downgraded the company’s rating from BBB to BBB- and left the ratings on negative outlook. As the homebuilders struggle, those who supply them (such as Masco) will equally struggle.

                    MBIA (bond insurer)
                    On 5 November 2008, the company announced a third quarter loss of $US806 million. On 8 November 2008, Moody’s lowered the ratings on MBIA thus triggering payments by the company to third parties. Moody’s lowered the debt rating to junk level, citing a growing exposure to US mortgages. Without government intervention, it seems almost certain that this company will fail.

                    Merrill Lynch (investment bank)
                    On 14 September 2008, Bank of America announced that it had acquired Merrill Lynch subject to approval by regulators and shareholders. The company was sold for $US29 per share and the company is currently trading at $US8.34. It is down from over $US50 in May 2008. The acquisition of this company by Bank of America means that if Bank of America fails, then this will be a default by Bank of America, Countrywide and Merrill Lynch. Had Bank of America not made these two acquisitions, both Countrywide and Merrill Lynch would have failed by now.

                    MGIC (bond insurer)
                    On 17 October 2008, the company announced a third quarter loss of $US113 million after losses on Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, Lehman Brothers and AIG. The company is currently trading at $US1.93, down from above $US10 two months ago. This company has a limited future unless the US government steps in to save it.

                    Morgan Stanley (investment bank)
                    The company’s shares have fallen from $US45 in September to $US10.05 today. It is clearly struggling but will not be permitted to fall, although it may be taken over by a stronger operator.

                    PMI (bond insurer)
                    On 3 November 2008, PMI announced a third quarter loss of $US229 million. The shares are down to $US1.37 from a high of $US17 and appear to be heading to oblivion unless the government intervenes. Local insurer QBE completed the acquisition of PMI Australia in late October.

                    Pulte Homes
                    Again, the shares have collapsed from above $US20 to $US7.12 in a couple of months. Analysts have recently started to downgrade this stock. In its quarterly report dated 6 November 2008, the company reported a net loss of $US280 million for the three months ended September 30, 2008. It will struggle to survive.

                    Radian Group (insurer)
                    The debt of this company has been reduced to junk status. Its shares are trading at $US1.50, down from as high as $US5.20 but are now back to $US3.32. Again, short of government intervention, this company seems doomed to failure.

                    Rescap (mortgage broker)
                    Rescap is owned by GMAC, which is itself in trouble. In turn, GMAC is owned by Cerebus and General Motors. Both of these firms are in trouble. In early September, Rescap announced it was shedding 60 per cent of its staff, having narrowly escaped bankruptcy. S&P has now downgraded both GMAC and Rescap to CC. On 5 November 2008, the Washington Post suggested that Rescap would fail. The newspaper quoted GMAC as the source of that information. It now appears that GMAC will not be required to support Rescap. In these circumstances, it seems almost certain that Rescap will fail. Rescap posted a third quarter loss of $US1.9 billion. This made a total loss for eight quarters of $US9 billion.

                    Standard Pacific (home builder)
                    On 30 October 2008, the company announced a third quarter loss of $US369 million.

                    UBS (investment bank)
                    This is one of the companies one would expect to survive the financial turmoil. In October, the company received a $US59.2 billion aid package from the Swiss government. This is the main reason why it is not likely to default. In European terms, it is too big to fail. The company has transferred the risk on $US60 billion of debt assets to the Swiss government. In the meantime, indictments could be issued against senior bank officers in the near future.

                    Washington Mutual (savings and loan company)
                    On 26 September 2008, this company became the largest US bank failure in history. After customers withdrew large sums, it was seized by the Office of Thrift Supervision and its branch network sold to JP Morgan. This is the fourth company to default in the list.

                    XL Capital (Monoline Insurer)
                    The debt of this company had been downgraded to junk status and the stock is trading at $US4.64, down from above $US20 in a couple of months. The chairman has been forced to sell to meet margin calls. The stock has been down 50 per cent one day and up 75 per cent the next. The company announced a loss of $US1.6 billion to 30 September 2008. This is another company whose future is cloudy without government intervention. (Its parent is now known as Syncora Holdings.)

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Synthetic CDOs. Make or Break Time

                      armageddon.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Synthetic CDOs. Make or Break Time

                        Originally posted by marvenger View Post
                        armageddon.
                        It sounds like nine was a number that was used for illustration purposes, but am I correct in saying that with each default of a major company such as those on the list, the economy will suffer exponentially more so?

                        I think Bank of America needs to acquire one more failing company; I wanna see some CDO tetris action!

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Synthetic CDOs. Make or Break Time

                          Originally posted by grizam303 View Post
                          It sounds like nine was a number that was used for illustration purposes, but am I correct in saying that with each default of a major company such as those on the list, the economy will suffer exponentially more so?

                          I think Bank of America needs to acquire one more failing company; I wanna see some CDO tetris action!
                          To quote from the original post

                          " if seven of the 100 reference entities default, the SPV has to pay the bank a third of the money; if eight default, it’s two-thirds; and if nine default, the whole amount is repayable"

                          So 7, 8 and 9 defaults are the crunch break points when the investors in the SPV have to start paying.

                          It may be more sensible for someone like BOA (or Government) to buy a defaulting company thus save having to pay out, but that depends on whether it was a seller or a buyer of the SPV. (Plus they might have to buy a lot of companies to protect themselves). If they were predominantly a Buyer/investor then they might purchase the defaulting company, if they were a Seller of the SPV, then they would let it fall because they would get to collect the insurance.

                          Chances are that many Corps are probably in both camps via different contracts, (i.e buyers and sellers) then they would have to run the numbers. Governments are in the same position. If a local Authority or a pension fund bought the investment, (which also sold the insurance) then the Government has a choice. Save the defaulting companies and save the pension funds having to pay out, or let the defaulter fail and watch the pension fund, local Gov etc have to pay out.

                          That could be why we are seeing so much strange sh*t happening. The Govs could be in a position whereby it is the lesser of 2 evils that they have to run with. I have seen numbers in the vicinity of 55 Trillion USD of these contracts floating around. But that number could be reduced significantly depending on how it all plays out. However I would presume that under Mark to market, they don't get adjusted on the books until such time as 7 or more defaults have occurred. Some Companies may even have bought and then sold an SPV, then just clicked the ticket on the way through. Who the hell knows.

                          I get the feeling you are seeing tetris action at the moment, it is just not in the form you expected. I would suggest that the Citi debacle has been influenced, to some extent, by these contracts. Whichever way it goes, there will be a transfer of funds between Gov, Corps, Countries etc and it will end up with some winners, some losers and some who come out neutral.

                          If someone else understands these things more fully or I have this wrong, please let us know.

                          Cheers

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Synthetic CDOs. Make or Break Time

                            What I was referencing was immediately preceding your quote from the article, namely:

                            They have a variety of twists and turns, but it usually goes something like this:
                            This suggests that nine may not be a steadfast number, and that it could just be used for illustration purposes. Or maybe nine is part of the "usually goes something like this" bit.

                            I'm primarily interested to know if most contracts are structured around the 7-8-9 schema, or if there are all sorts of flavors. In so many words, I want to know if the S is going to H the F all at once, or if we'll get it in waves. However, I appreciate the added insight you've offered.

                            My tetris reference was that right now, if BoA fails, it will count as three defaults (BoA, Countrywide, Merill Lynch). If they acquire another failing company (third one's a charm?), then when they fail, it will be four defaults on the big list. Clearing four lines in Tetris is called a tetris. If the media outlets can compare economics to medicine, then I'm permitted to compare finance to video games!

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Synthetic CDOs. Make or Break Time

                              This article refutes part of Kohler's thesis:

                              http://ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2008...ving-anything/

                              One article which has been doing the rounds is a piece in Australia’s Business Spectator by Alan Kohler. He writes:

                              As the world slips into recession, it is also on the brink of a synthetic CDO cataclysm that could actually save the global banking system.


                              It is a truly great irony that the world’s banks could end up being saved not by governments, but by the synthetic CDO time bomb that they set ticking with their own questionable practices during the credit boom.

                              Kohler’s assumption is that most synthetic CDOs were written as naked positions: banks simply bought CDS protection from the vehicles they created in a one-sided bet. The banks, in other words, would only win in the event of a default, when the vehicles they created would pay them out.


                              Unfortunately that’s not the case. The very invention of the synthetic CDO was born out of the desire for banks to hedge existing loan positions on their books. JPM started it all with a deal called BISTRO. In fact, there are already examples of synthetic deals coming a cropper and forcing banks to unload corporate loan exposures in order to try and avert onerous capital charges. Barclays and the unwind of the appropriately named Black Diamond being a case in point.


                              And where banks didn’t own the underlying assets the portfolio CDS referenced, they would almost always write protection and sell it into the market to offset their “naked” position with the synthetic CDO they sponsored.


                              The actual CDS underlying synthetic CDOs are probably then best thought of as being part of a zero-sum game played by the financial sector.
                              The risk is with the noteholders of the synthetic CDOs. And just as with ABS CDOs, those noteholders are likely to see some very severe losses. Synthetic CDOs are only now about to experience the same kind of dramatic collapse that plagued ABS CDOs way back in late 2007 and early 2008.


                              The trigger will be the growing number of corporate defaults, which just like assumptions on subprime mortgage defaults, was, in many synthetic structures, underestimated. Barclays analysts see a “rising tide” of synthetic CDO downgrades on the horizon. Downgrades which could well have huge regulatory capital requirements on the super-senior positions banks have on their books.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Synthetic CDOs. Make or Break Time

                                Great thread and thank you Louie for a concise explanation. The article sighted above may be what someone (Marvenger?) was looking for but I suspect it may be this Michael Lewis piece:

                                http://www.portfolio.com/news-market...oom?print=true

                                There's a classic Chinatown moment - as in "Forget it Jake it's Chinatown" - when the putative hero of the piece Eisman realises who it is who's been taking the other side of his short bet on subprime: the guy sitting next to him at a securitisation conference who he instintively loathes. The guy's been creating synthetic CDO's because they've run out of bad risks in the ghettos of Cleveland etc.... And Eisman thought he was "preserving" (making a killing for himself) capital for the recovery and return to sanity...

                                It's a labyrinth. Or should that be was?

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X