Blame the Boomers, the shallowest generation

[mercerbear]

Re: Blame the Boomers, the shallowest generation

As a fiscal conservative, social liberal I have felt completely unrepresented in US politics for as long as I've taken any interest in politics.

I share your political views and frustration with being completely unrepresented politically. I am 27 and this will be the 3rd presidential election I am eligible to vote in that I will skip because neither candidate has said anything that makes me feel remotely optimistic about the direction he would take our country. It's sickening.

I wish libertarianism could gain traction as a 3rd major party. I am another huge fan of Ron Paul.

[Judas]

Re: Blame the Boomers, the shallowest generation

the next generation will be even more authoritarian than the last.

They already are. I observe those who are 18 or 20 now and they have been more indoctrinated to conformity and respecting authority and convention than we can imagine. It is almost a throwback to an earlier time.

They will be more socialistic, not less.

I've noticed this as well, and Strauss and Howe mention Gen Y (or whatever they are) as possibly being the next "great generation", with a highly conformist, collectivist mindset. I don't know how accurate their Generations stuff is though, as I haven't researched it or read critique.

[marvenger]

Re: Blame the Boomers, the shallowest generation

Liked the article and agreed with a lot of it. I agree that some of blame still has to laid at the feet of the people who borrowed to buy Mercs and supersized tacobell meals, but I think the lack of leadership is probably the central issue. Societies as a whole don't educate themselves it would seem, they need leadership to help institutionalise a condusive environment for independent responsible thinking of the general public. I don't really like institutional anything but institutionised free speech to promote individual responsibility and foresight to continualy improve the material, educational and spiritual base seems to be the institution that needs the most attention.

The decline in the manufacturing was what created the need for the frankenstein economy to grow out of control and the decline in manufacturing was due to outsourcing and the short term profit goals and remuneration incentives of our corporate elite. Greed is good became the institutionalised morals and this has clearly failed.

My only problem with the article was claiming that penicillin was invented by an american. from wikipedia 'The discovery of penicillin is attributed to Scottish scientist Alexander Fleming in 1928. The development of penicillin for use as a medicine is to the Australian Nobel Laureate Howard Walter Florey.' Yanks made the most money out of it though I'm sure.

[Verrocchio]

Re: Blame the Boomers, the shallowest generation

I think it was written by a boomer. The second paragraph starts

"Our claim to fame ...... "

Plenty of fiscally conservative boomers who must be tearing their hair out just as much as those in later generations.

As a fiscal conservative, social liberal I have felt completely unrepresented in US politics for as long as I've taken any interest in politics.

DC is full of spendthrifts and moralisers, backstabbers, and people on the take. We need a tidal wave to wash the whole lot away.

Indeed it is! And the tidal wave may be driven by the "The anger [that] is building. I don’t think the politicians running this country realize what true anger looks like. They are used to Americans being herded along like passive sheep." As a social liberal, you must be wary of what may result from this anger, as in other polities, it has often led to demagoguery and to the loss of social programs and of liberties that are assumed by most conservatives and liberals to be enduring features of our society.

[BK]

Re: Blame the Boomers, - INFLATION

Great job by GrapeJelly.....

The Author of this article totally ignores Inflation - Boomers have reacted rationally to inflation and it has made them Wealthy (at least a good number of them).

Many Boomers are just lucky to have benefited from Inflation. If I had bought a home in 1980 - my family would have a ton of extra cash every month. Most Boomers bought a home when prices were extremely low and inflation drove up the value of their homes over 20-30 years. The same inflation that drove up the value of their home drove up their Salaries.

I can't believe I wasted 2 minutes of my time reading an article that blames the problems in America's economy on Boomers. Every generation of humans looks out for themselves the best they can.

Humans react to whats going on in their Society - Fred did an excellent article on the Hippie movement - that illustrated how being a Hippie was Cool because finding a good paying job was hard. When the economy began to take off in the late seventies-early eighties many of the Hippies became Capitalists.

Do we give any of the Boomers who were Hippies and then turned Capitalists Credit for their Hippie years? Perhaps former Hippies are more deserving of their Wealth because of their Hippie Years and there fore should pay lower taxes?

I think the Author is probably a very intelligent guy who is angry that he is driving a CRV with 110K Miles and he thinks he should be driving a BMW 500 or 700 series and to wear a Rolex of his wrist.
Perhaps someone never explained to him - LIFE ISN"T FAIR!

[sunskyfan]

Re: Blame the Boomers, the shallowest generation

Another essay with a simular point of view ...

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/04/opinion/04brooks.html?hp

[vinoveri]

Re: Blame the Boomers, - INFLATION

I think the Author is probably a very intelligent guy who is angry that he is driving a CRV with 110K Miles and he thinks he should be driving a BMW 500 or 700 series and to wear a Rolex of his wrist.
Perhaps someone never explained to him - LIFE ISN"T FAIR!

No, it's not, like when and where you are born. But when injustice results from the actions of individuals or governments, this needs to be pointed out - and the author does.

So, who is the fool in this scenario? The “poor” person got to drive a Cadillac Escalade for a period of time, the foolish banks got bailed out, the bank CEOs took home $30 million, and I lived within my means and footed the bill for the reckless actions of others. It appears that the fools are the Americans who lived their lives according to the rules. The anger is building. I don’t think the politicians running this country realize what true anger looks like. They are used to Americans being herded along like passive sheep.

It's not about envy over people getting rich, its about the bailout of those who took the wrong side of a risky trade - where there should be a winner and a loser (and the author abstains from the game), at the expense of those who chose not to play and thus neither had a chance at big gains (by their own choice) but neither chanced to lose - and now they're told that they lose while both of the dice rollers win. Get It now?

[labasta]

Re: Blame the Boomers, - INFLATION

Most Boomers bought a home when prices were extremely low and inflation drove up the value of their homes over 20-30 years.

I don't agree with that entirely. Think about what the boomers were doing in the 70s and 80s with regards to their life cycle.

The life cycle of a boomer is such:

1. Young and idealistic - start hippie movement to change the world - dropping out. That's easy to do when you aren't yet looking to reproduce, with no responsibilities and your hormones are strong. Easy to rebel against the system and say no thank you. Loads of jobs available at this time as these people are consuming but not yet working career wise.

2. Less young and less idealistic (comes with age). Wants to reproduce and provide a nest for offspring - enter materialism. Men want to impress women with security so they can reproduce. Women looking for security through men (as they always have done). (feminism is a lie. Old conditioning very prevalent.) This is the mid/late 70s through the 80s. Housing goes up because of the demand for it to raise families. (They are the dominant generation remember). Also look at the type of movies in the 80s geared towards their children. Unemployment goes up as not all boomers can find jobs (there are too many of them). There is also unrest in the 70s and 80s. I agree that there is also a tendency of a spoilt child attitude which causes a "working class work is below me" attitude. In order to counter this, the government invents the fire economy and gets the Mexicans in to do those jobs.

3. Mid-life crisis occurs as kids leave the nest. They try and understand their place in the world. Enter the "New Age" movement in the 90s. "A Road Less Traveled" - "The Celestine Prophesy" etc. This is just intelligent hippyism for the aged. (I'm not making any moral judgements here). I imagine affairs and divorce rates go up in this time period too.
Real Estate takes a boost due to boomers children coming on board (they are the mini pig in the snake).

4. Boomers looking to retire - stock market shoots up in the 70s-80s-90s-00s as they put in the funds. Their children are doing the same in the late 90s and 00s. Same with real estate. Two pigs in the snake working here.

5. Baby boomers retire - they want to sell their big houses and down size a bit. They are looking to retire or are about to start taking funds out of their stock retirement fund. Nobody else can support that. Stock market crashes and then remains stagnant for years and years and years and years until another pig in the snake arrives (if it does at all).

6. Baby boomers have to work in retirement as stock market and real estate tanks and remains stagnant. Government goes insolvent as it can't pay all these state pensions for the boomers. The boomers take part-time government jobs to make ends meet. A period of relative poverty ensues with various possible outcomes.

7. As the boomers die off (morgues making a mint), the market for people's labour changes as the NWO somehow (don't ask) gives the rest of the Americans a way to sell to the billions of Asians instead of just the millions of boomers. American become even more wealthy than before. Yipee!

How's that for a boomer analysis. Maybe all our financial talk is the means for this to happen, but not the ultimate cause, if you know what I mean.

[BK]

Re: Blame the Boomers, - INFLATION

vinoveri,
We all are placing a bet in life with our life style or actions- whether we abstain from betting or you buy a house with an ARM that you can't afford.

I live a very modest life style and I drive older cars and I don't have 5 kids. My lifestyle is a bet that this is the better route for my family (I'm betting we'll be better off). I might be wrong or I might be right - check back with me when I'm 65. My actions or inactions are a bet.

As a recent Itulip Video Clip showed - Life = Risk.

The Author seems really annoyed that a Plumber might drive a nice car vs the businessman that put in his time. Plumbers work hard and charge a good hourly fee.

In my opinion the Author has some envy mixed in with his anger. Perhaps he would have bet differently if he could have a do-over? I often wish that I was as financially irresponsible as many of may fellow citizens (my responsible mind set is a bet).

We agree to disagree.

[vinoveri]

Re: Blame the Boomers, - INFLATION

BK,
Actions are bets and risky, OK, agreed. All is well until the rules are changed to benefit the house (or the house's friends). I personally would find it difficult to wager if the colors of the roullette wheel or rules of craps can change at the caprice of the casino.

There is no rational way of planning/betting in this circumstance, save believing in some transcendant value system e.g. frugality has always been a virtue as has saving, and while thrift remains one still today, saving is not for "a penny saved is a penny debased".

Whether one is angry and envious because they didn't get a piece of the pie, doesn't alter the injustice and inequity of it all. A vicious man can still be right (even though you may not want to invite him over for dinner).

I really could care no less what kind a car the plumber drives or house he lives in until I or my children are asked to pay for it. Merit, hard work, and luck should determine financial "success", not a rigged system of wealth transfer, - and this is what's going on - my 4 children did not run up the $10T in debt, but they've been committed to pay for it. My advice to them will be: default.

all the best

[Wild Style]

Re: Blame the Boomers, the shallowest generation

http://seekingalpha.com/article/1032..._editors_picks

The Great American Empire has begun its long slow decline. It may take a few generations to reach its nadir, but the poor decisions already made and crucial decisions postponed in the last 25 years by our Boomer dominated leadership has put our country on a path to a declining standard of living. The U.S. is like a punch drunk ex-champion boxer who still thinks he has what it takes, but is living off his old press clippings. He lived the good life, got fat and didn’t do the hard work required of a champion. A slew of young brash fighters are itching to take him down. It is just a matter of time.

great piece!

I think the person was snorting coke when he said this part though

It is time to live within your means, distinguish between needs and wants, reduce debt, save 10% of your income, make sure your kids get a good education, not try and keep up with the Joneses, show compassion for your fellow man, and possibly pay more taxes and get less benefits, for the good of the country.

Last time I checked, this is America. We are founded on the premise of individualism. That sort of mentality does not mesh well with the compassion for fellow man and paying more taxes for the betterment of the country sentiment *that sir be commie talk*. It would take something utterly catastrophic and demoralizing happening in this country for that to ever change.

[Guest]

Re: Blame the Boomers, the shallowest generation

A little compassion ain't gonna kill you Wild Style. You sound like a vampire that's just had holy water sprinkled on it.

Seriously, if this is your read on the concept of "individualism", your read is extraordinarily narrow. We can be individualists, even "rugged individualists" if you like (though the "rugged" bit gets a little too Hollywood for me), without needing to be tight-arsed towards our fellow man. I'm from New York City, just like you, and I understand the free market ethos you wish to express here, but frankly your read of the concept of individualism seems a bit too narrow for my taste. To equate occasional exercises in selflessness as being somehow anti-free-market takes what was originally a noble philosophical stance a' la' Henry David Thoreau and exasperates it to a caricature of the original sentiment.

great piece!

I think the person was snorting coke when he said this part though

Last time I checked, this is America. We are founded on the premise of individualism. That sort of mentality does not mesh well with the compassion for fellow man and paying more taxes for the betterment of the country sentiment *that sir be commie talk*. It would take something utterly catastrophic and demoralizing happening in this country for that to ever change.

[Wild Style]

Re: Blame the Boomers, the shallowest generation

A little compassion ain't gonna kill you Wild Style. You sound like a vampire that's just had holy water sprinkled on it.

Seriously, if this is your read on the concept of "individualism", your read is extraordinarily narrow. We can be individualists, even "rugged individualists" if you like (though the "rugged" bit gets a little too Hollywood for me), without needing to be tight-arsed towards our fellow man. I'm from New York City, just like you, and I understand the free market ethos you wish to express here, but frankly your read of the concept of individualism seems a bit too narrow for my taste. To equate occasional exercises in selflessness as being somehow anti-free-market takes what was originally a noble philosophical stance a' la' Henry David Thoreau and exasperates it to a caricature of the original sentiment.

Hello my friend. Let me lay out what I mean.

From my understanding as gathered from research. The individual pursuit of happiness as it deals with socio-economic principles was introduced by Adam Smith. He hypothesized that in the individual’s pursuit of his own self interested, that person would actually be doing what is good for the society. His thinking is, the individual wants are what the society actually needs. I find that notion utterly stupid/absurd. It is this hypothesis of his which helped to shape the early days and socio economic culture which would come to dominate our society/culture.
While I like coming here to this site and love reading information and gaining knowledge let me make it clear. I don't believe in capitalism *as practiced today* and I damn sure don't believe in laissez faire. While we are at it, I don't believe in democracy either, nor do I believe in any political system as practiced in present day. I said all that, not because I am someone who should be listened to, nor should anyone care about what I believe, I am nobody. My purpose is to make clear my stance so that assumptions about my beliefs do not affect any discourse we may have ;)

Anyway, you are from the city eh? Well then depending on how old you are "I am in my 30s and from Bklyn". You remember how it was back in the day’s right? You knew your neighbor, people actually helped and cared about each other. You could walk up the block and not fear from much in your own neighborhood. This was because you belonged to a community. Well, since leaving NY I have lived in three states and five cities. In all of these travels I have come to realize, the since of community, belonging and caring about each other has long gone. I understand what the person in the article was saying but I think he doesn't realize it isn’t just the boomers who are self indulgent and apathetic tards. It is the generations after that one too. No one gives a rat’s arse about the next one. Listen to that dufus “Joe the Plumber” who is crying about being taxed on money he doesn't even have. It is almost comical. Lady was raped some years back in a train station in NYC and people walked by and did nothing. This typifies the “it doesn't affect me so let’s just keep it moving” mentality that American’s have come to hold so dear. To deny that this mentality exist in America (and in a pervasive way at that) is to deny reality itself. I don't want people to think I am not proud to be an American, I am. Love being a NYer and when I can, I plan to move back to my home town and hopefully be buried there. But, I do recognize this place isn't the best country in the world as some would have you believe. I think the article was wonderful, I think what he said really resonates with some. But I will believe till the day I die that American's are far too damn selfish and self absorbed to ever be willing to relinquish some of their wealth in order to help their fellow Americans. Not talking about donating because we do that in a major way. I mean giving up taxes so we can say have universal healthcare or to fund mass transit (just random examples). Any such talk is met with cries of "socialism" "marxism" and all the other "isms" that make "red blooded Americans" foam at the mouth. We MIGHT get to a point where we can be a more caring nation and actually have a society that provides for its citizens in a more meaningful way. As I said though, it’s going to take something major to happen (Depression 4.0 maybe?) to happen before people would be willing to submit to having such a system in place here in the states. While I recognize that you and others on this forum may not fit the bill of what I am talking about, I don’t think the people on this forum are good examples of the average joe.

[labasta]

Re: Blame the Boomers, the shallowest generation

Hello my friend. Let me lay out what I mean.

From my understanding as gathered from research. The individual pursuit of happiness as it deals with socio-economic principles was introduced by Adam Smith. He hypothesized that in the individual’s pursuit of his own self interested, that person would actually be doing what is good for the society. His thinking is, the individual wants are what the society actually needs. I find that notion utterly stupid/absurd. It is this hypothesis of his which helped to shape the early days and socio economic culture which would come to dominate our society/culture.
While I like coming here to this site and love reading information and gaining knowledge let me make it clear. I don't believe in capitalism *as practiced today* and I damn sure don't believe in laissez faire. While we are at it, I don't believe in democracy either, nor do I believe in any political system as practiced in present day. I said all that, not because I am someone who should be listened to, nor should anyone care about what I believe, I am nobody. My purpose is to make clear my stance so that assumptions about my beliefs do not affect any discourse we may have ;)

Anyway, you are from the city eh? Well then depending on how old you are "I am in my 30s and from Bklyn". You remember how it was back in the day’s right? You knew your neighbor, people actually helped and cared about each other. You could walk up the block and not fear from much in your own neighborhood. This was because you belonged to a community. Well, since leaving NY I have lived in three states and five cities. In all of these travels I have come to realize, the since of community, belonging and caring about each other has long gone. I understand what the person in the article was saying but I think he doesn't realize it isn’t just the boomers who are self indulgent and apathetic tards. It is the generations after that one too. No one gives a rat’s arse about the next one. Listen to that dufus “Joe the Plumber” who is crying about being taxed on money he doesn't even have. It is almost comical. Lady was raped some years back in a train station in NYC and people walked by and did nothing. This typifies the “it doesn't affect me so let’s just keep it moving” mentality that American’s have come to hold so dear. To deny that this mentality exist in America (and in a pervasive way at that) is to deny reality itself. I don't want people to think I am not proud to be an American, I am. Love being a NYer and when I can, I plan to move back to my home town and hopefully be buried there. But, I do recognize this place isn't the best country in the world as some would have you believe. I think the article was wonderful, I think what he said really resonates with some. But I will believe till the day I die that American's are far too damn selfish and self absorbed to ever be willing to relinquish some of their wealth in order to help their fellow Americans. Not talking about donating because we do that in a major way. I mean giving up taxes so we can say have universal healthcare or to fund mass transit (just random examples). Any such talk is met with cries of "socialism" "marxism" and all the other "isms" that make "red blooded Americans" foam at the mouth. We MIGHT get to a point where we can be a more caring nation and actually have a society that provides for its citizens in a more meaningful way. As I said though, it’s going to take something major to happen (Depression 4.0 maybe?) to happen before people would be willing to submit to having such a system in place here in the states. While I recognize that you and others on this forum may not fit the bill of what I am talking about, I don’t think the people on this forum are good examples of the average joe.

That's a good point I wanted to add too. It doesn't just apply to the boomer generation. They started it, but all other successive generations followed with an even greater vengence. I am 35, a child of the boomers, and my gen is even more about me, me, me than the boomers. I see it as a teacher in schools too. The next gen in schools are even more me, me, me than I was when I was at school. The further we go, the more spoiled we get. Children are getting more stupid and less well-behaved as well (over a 10 year period my fiancee has been teaching). They expect eveything to be given to them at school. But, the coming depression will wipe that attitude clean off their faces.

On that note, a chemistry teacher showed me a Junior Cert paper (for 15/16 year olds) from 1955 and asked his Leaving Cert students of 2005 to do it (for 17/18 year olds). They struggled. They thought it was a hard Leaving Cert exam. That's how times have changed. Idiocracy is for real.

I'm not advocating that we go back to Edwardian disciplineship, but the 60s threw away the baby with the bath water, without a doubt. With regards to schools, you either have very strict discipline, or very small communal class sizes (7 kids as opposed to 30) where the teacher acts like a surrogate parent from primary all the way to 18. You can't have it halfway, like we have now. It doesn't work.

When everyone is poor, everyone is together. As soon as wealth comes into the equation, it seems to bring out the worst in the majority of people (when it could bring out the best). The keeping up with the Joneses, the rat-race, the snobbishness, the lack of time for each other as peole with careers are scattered around the globe away from relatives and old friends. Sometimes, I think people chasing money is like chasing your own tail. It can come at a great expense. I have a feeling that true happiness lies with communal living - an extreme example is a Kibbutz, a less exreme example is the neighboorhood in New York where you grew up. Chasing baubles does not bring happiness in my opinion. I think it fundamentally lies with a person's insecurity, but there you go.

I watched an old episode of different strokes on tv (1983 I think), and you can see it even there. You can feel it. Am I making sense to anyone?

[labasta]

Re: Blame the Boomers, the shallowest generation

Other traits which I see common in schools which I never use to see is: a lack of respect, ingratitude, lack of order, impoliteness, extreme laziness. These are qualities of the fire economy generations. In Ireland in the 80s when everyone was poor, you saw none of this.

The different strokes episode saw issues which would seem not as much of an issue to us today. The children had a sense of repect, maturity and politeness about them. It was a bit wierd to watch. It's quite difficult for me to describe.