*Schiff*

[doom&gloom]

Re: *Schiff*

you miss the idea that a good broker should not only respond to your wishes, but not just buy and hold. there should be an exit strategy as well.

[Shakespear]

Re: *Schiff*

Never heard of Schiff but in trying to find out about him I found this

http://bigpicture.typepad.com/commen...-vs-peter.html

where we have this

I'm not looking to defend Schiff -- he's a big boy, and can do that on his own. My beef is with Forbes -- its a sloppy work.
What I was singularly disappointed with involved the lauding of George Gilder's 1990's success. What Forbes failed to mention was what came after: From 2000 forward, Gilder's readers lost 44%, then 43%, then 56% in each successive year (WSJ). Apparently, it was okay for George Gilder Newsletter to lose 89.4% of his readers money, because he was permanently bullish.
Oh, and one other thing: Gilder's newsletter is a joint publishing venture with Forbes, another disclosure also somehow misplaced in the column. Shame on Forbes for omitting that disclosure; if Schiff had done that, it would be worthy of an SEC/NASD investigation.

In a nut shell, MAKE YOUR OWN DECISIONS and be responsible for them !!!

It is also very nice to read what was said years years ago on a similar topic :-)

http://www.physiciansnews.com/finance/699.html

[c1ue]

Re: *Schiff*

Shakespear,

Interesting article you posted.

I would be researching the author's funding trail - it sounds like something the NAR economists would be saying!

Of course, the CFP author completely neglects to mention how real estate nearly doubled CAGR of GDP over the same period - this is what made 70s era homes such good investments, not inflation.

[Jim Nickerson]

Re: *Schiff*

you have an ACTIONABLE event with SEC for them failing to execute your
orders! You need to write a letter fo complaint to Schiff, and tell him to
make you whole as of those closing prices on the day you wanted to sell
or you will send a copy of such letter to the SEC aas a formal complaint.

Odteknology,

That is an interesting story, and being no lawyer, I agree with d&g's advice to you.

Many years ago, I had funds in a 20th Century something or other out of Kansas City, and I put in an order, I guess via a telephone message to sell a bunch of funds, and they didn't get sold. Whether I wrote or called about this, I no longer recall, but it was a major fuckup that happened. They went back and listened to the recorded conversation and the Treasurer of the company sent me a letter of apology and in the interim the orders I had put in were reversed or carried out, whichever, to make it correct.

If you don't get satisfaction without a lawyer, get a lawyer as much as I hate to suggest that to anyone.

[metalman]

Re: *Schiff*

I have a Europac account as well. Several months ago, way before everything went south, I instructed my broker to sell a large portion of my holdings there.

These sales had to happen on the overnights. The next day, my phone rings, and I see it's my broker... Only it's not. I pick up the phone, and its *Schiff* himself, calling to ask me why I'm selling these stocks. "We're still buying these stocks at these levels."

He actually went into my account and STOPPED THE SALES. Manually. Override!

WTF? Does he monitor every account? I don't know...

I called my broker, and told him what happened. After some discussion, I ended selling some of the stocks, but holding onto many others--what is it about having a brokerage account that makes selling difficult at times--and all the more so when someone like *Schiff* is advising you directly over the phone not to do so?

Long story short... wish I had sold it all. Account has since been CRUSHED! And *Schiff* goes on with utter confidence that he is right. Maybe so long term, but short, no way. I paid the price for his confidence/arrogance. My own fault, ultimately.

really sorry to hear about all of this but you can't say you were not warned! :eek:

the apple doesn't fall too far from the tree.

[rabot10]

Re: *Schiff*

I opened a Europac account in June of 07, My broker handed the phone to Schiff to close me on getting started. I opened it for 200k - it was up and down, up and down which I don't hold against anyone. But after EJ came out with, "Time at last to short the Markets", I just could not see how these stocks would hold up any better than a US stock. I asked to sell it all and send me the money. I recieved two calls back by a broker trying to turn me. They then sold all my stocks and charged me 6k fee to sell. I thought that was a bit much. In and out in less than a year cost me 12k ouch

[phirang]

Re: *Schiff*

I opened a Europac account in June of 07, My broker handed the phone to Schiff to close me on getting started. I opened it for 200k - it was up and down, up and down which I don't hold against anyone. But after EJ came out with, "Time at last to short the Markets", I just could not see how these stocks would hold up any better than a US stock. I asked to sell it all and send me the money. I recieved two calls back by a broker trying to turn me. They then sold all my stocks and charged me 6k fee to sell. I thought that was a bit much.

That's how Schiff makes his money...

IB charges $1 for trading a stock. I pay maybe 10GBP to trade in LSE.

[Guest]

Re: *Schiff*

Actually there is nothing "scammish" about Euro-Pac charging 3% to buy and sell stocks because they fully declare it up front. That's what Rick was charged here to liquidate a 200K portfolio. I sold all my stocks at Europac in the spring early summer of 2007 but at that time I do believe their premium for buys and sells on small orders was 6%?? I of course told them they'd have to be nuts to think many customers would accept such ripoff premiums for long - their response was that these high premiums were because they construct **long term** portfolios and don't expect their clients to trade or churn their accounts. Fair enough, I'm actually partial to that notion myself. So if Rick was charged 3% for selling an entire 200K portfolio that's their "preferred" rate for large transactions.

Having said all of that, 6% rates are patently absurd, and 3% rates are pricey as all get-out. They are a boutique shop, with some proprietary investment theme research which is not typical of a mere brokerage. Peter carefully cultivates a very high profile to package himself as the "product" for this boutique shop. Fair enough again. There is some modest premier qualities around and about Euro-Pac, but frankly at the end of the day I would not blow such huge premiums on trades. For a Europac client who in highly volatile markets might want to do some serious pruning of a portfolio twice or three times a year to take profits and then redeploy back in, they are skimming heavily and my own experience as a client with over 200K parked in their accounts was that I felt after a little while like a trussed up hog being driven to market any time I had to buy or sell something. Such high premiums felt like someone was taking a strip out of your hide any time you had to buy or sell a block of shares.

Plus you get Peter's curious sense of license holding sell orders in limbo while he calls you to impart some of his wisdom. WTF? Since when does this guy have that kind of license over the timing of my sell instructions? Thanks Euro-Pac, but no thanks. I like "the Peter" well enough in terms of his public speaking engagements, but I don't like ANYONE getting high handed when it comes to when, where, how or how timely I deploy my own money. If they held a large sell instruction in limbo for 48 hours while the head of the company "worked a phone call to me into his busy calendar" to dissuade me, I'd rate their whole service at an "F" for that. Not acceptable !!!

[Mega]

Re: *Schiff*

Not trying to leap to his defence, i can only say that while i am down, i am down very little owe-ing the the £ going from $2.08to $1.55!.............Factor in that i sold my BT stock (British Telecom) stock for £3.23 ish & just today they gave a SUDDEN profits waring..........which took them to £1.05 ish !!!!!!

Thus i am vastly better off @ Euro-pac, Also i followed his line of thought which if the $ was to get killed the £ would die 1ST!......I traded Euro's for £ and i think i made £8500 profit on the deal.

Gold & Silver BIG dissapointments right now but we see. What you guys MUST understand is that i want very much to be able to "Internationalize" My (Small) Wealth. I have ZERO trust for my banks/Goverment who if you put money into anything here simply ASS-RAPE you.

BT Is now below its offer price in 1984 !!!!!!!

Mike

[goadam1]

Re: *Schiff*

I find him to be very entertaining. He even makes some good points. But remember: he is selling something (himself). In order to sell himself he makes himself very entertaining by speaking in extremes he gets invited on television to sell you stuff.

[metalman]

Re: *Schiff*

I find him to be very entertaining. He even makes some good points. But remember: he is selling something (himself). In order to sell himself he makes himself very entertaining by speaking in extremes he gets invited on television to sell you stuff.

bingo. great act, shitty fund.

[nathanhulick]

Re: *Schiff*

Sure, he is trying to get people to invest money with him, because thats how he makes his money, but its not as if he has the horrible track record that some of you guys are saying here.

He was talking about buying gold the same time people were talking about it here, when it was under $300. Anyone that bought gold then like he recommended has made a lot of money. For some reason, people think thats great when talking about EJ, but not so great when talking about Sch.iff.

Lots of the stocks that he has recommended have done poorly lately, but as he has said, its not like they are cutting their dividend. So now you are still getting your dividend, and you get a chance to buy more at a lower price.

Obviously people are upset that they have lost money in the short term, but anyone who has been invested with him for the last few years has probably done pretty well. (Ive been with him a year or so and havent done so well, but I own an oil company and a commodity company that are paying 18% and 13% in dividends, and dont appear to be in much danger of cutting anytime soon.

Anyone who was interested in getting a guaranteed, steady return shouldnt have been invested in something as risky as foreign stocks, really.

As for suing because he called you and convinced you not to sell, if you agreed with him that you were going to hold, then you dont have a case. If every investor who had to argue with his broker to get him to sell something could sue if he took losses, brokers would be out of business in a week.

[metalman]

Re: *Schiff*

Sure, he is trying to get people to invest money with him, because thats how he makes his money, but its not as if he has the horrible track record that some of you guys are saying here.

He was talking about buying gold the same time people were talking about it here, when it was under $300. Anyone that bought gold then like he recommended has made a lot of money. For some reason, people think thats great when talking about EJ, but not so great when talking about Sch.iff.

don't know anyone here who doesn't give schiff credit for that.

Lots of the stocks that he has recommended have done poorly lately, but as he has said, its not like they are cutting their dividend. So now you are still getting your dividend, and you get a chance to buy more at a lower price.

problem is he can't go to cash and still make money for himself and his 'investors'

Obviously people are upset that they have lost money in the short term, but anyone who has been invested with him for the last few years has probably done pretty well. (Ive been with him a year or so and havent done so well, but I own an oil company and a commodity company that are paying 18% and 13% in dividends, and dont appear to be in much danger of cutting anytime soon.

people are upset here that ej didn't tell them to sell schiff outright. some did, like rick and others based on the data here. good for them. i don't buy funds except i'm dying to buy an index fund and, believe it or not, some mining stocks are starting to pique my interest :eek:

Anyone who was interested in getting a guaranteed, steady return shouldnt have been invested in something as risky as foreign stocks, really.

no doubt.

As for suing because he called you and convinced you not to sell, if you agreed with him that you were going to hold, then you dont have a case. If every investor who had to argue with his broker to get him to sell something could sue if he took losses, brokers would be out of business in a week.

100% correct. if they agreed to sell but didn't that's another matter.

[c1ue]

Re: *Schiff*

Schiff can be a good macro economist, AND a investment shyster.

One doesn't preclude the other.

I just don't trust ANY investment advisors/shysters because none of them have the same interests as I do:

1) They're using my money, thus any losses are only loss of potential profit for them. Not actual losses

2) Even if they don't do squat, the 2 and 20 and various other NAUM means they get paid even if I don't

3) For every 'focus', 'professional', 'experience', or what not benefit so called investment advisors profess to have, equally there are issues with 'too big to be nimble', 'can't stray from the herd', 'no common sense'. Net zero benefit.

[pianodoctor]

Re: *Schiff*

Since *Schiff* is not here to present his side of things, I'm going to copy over a couple of his FAQs that may provide his side of the issue as per 'rip off prices', etc. Also, note the statement that theirs is a buy-and-hold strategy.

"1. How do I save money by trading foreign stocks through Euro Pacific?
Just about every other U.S. brokerage firm that can even offer access to foreign securities trades those non-U.S. listed securities through domestic market makers on the U.S. over-the-counter market. For example, if the ordinary shares of stock X closed Jan 1 in Hong Kong at the U.S. dollar equivalent on $1.00 per share, the market for those ordinary shares Jan 2 in the U.S. might be 90 cents bid, 1.10 offer. Anyone buying shares of stock X in the U.S. would be forced to pay $1.10 per share. Even if the investor used a discount broker, he would still be paying a 10% premium to buy the stock. Buying 10,000 shares with a 6 dollar commission would cost $11,006. However, the real cost of the trade is not $6, but $1,006; $1,000 to the market maker and & $6 to the broker. When you invest through Euro Pacific, we would execute your buy order directly on the Hong Kong exchange, saving you the $1,000 dollar mark up charged by the market maker. We would charge a commission, but the net effect would be a substantial savings for the investor.

2. What are your fees for buying non-U.S. listed foreign stocks?
We charge a percentage markup on all foreign trades that varies based on the size of each individual transaction and the total size of the portfolio. These fees can vary from as much as 5% ($50 to buy $1,000 of a single foreign stock), to less then 1% for a single stock transaction in excess of 1 million dollars. Most clients will end up paying between 2% and 3 % to build a portfolio of foreign stocks. The difference will depend of the total size of the portfolio and the number of individual stocks that comprise it. The more diversified the portfolio, the more it costs us to create it and the more we charge for our services. Since commissions will vary it is important to discuss the fees involved with the broker prior to placing any orders so that you understand the exact percentage that you will be charged.

Since we do not charge an annual management fee and given our buy-and hold strategy, in the long-run this fee structure should prove advantageous to paying the 1% to 2% annual management fee typically charged by money managers.'