Gold at $730, Kitco Out Of Everything

[ASH]

Re: Gold at $730, Kitco Out Of Everything

Don't bet on it. I bought metal at BD in Jan and Jun and asked for delivery at the end of Sept. Still don't have it. I did get an e-mail stating that they would send it when it came in. WTF! Beware.

I have had an account there since 2004 with over 80 trades. Past experience has been great. Not so happy now.

Hmmm... Thanks for the warning. Past performance does not guarantee future returns?

[Starving Steve]

Re: Gold at $730, Kitco Out Of Everything

De-flation means the reverse of inflation. That is why it is so darn important to think about hyphens and use hypens when you spell.

Therefore, if you buy gold in inflation, you sell gold in de-flation.

And don't tell me that the Ben is going to de-value the U.S. dollar. This will not happen because Saudi-Arabia would then just cease pumping.... Game-over. Check-mate.

Finally, selling gold does NOT mean that you sell your core position in gold, but it does mean that you use sucker-rallies in the gold market to sell-out of your speculative gold holdings.

I hold 38 oz of core physical gold which I never sell. But I am many months out of my speculative gold position which was 100 oz in paper gold sold at $907.

And yes, I am hurting plenty too--- but in oil and gas trusts. This is all part of the de-flation story. "House of pain."

But in two years, the situation in oil and gas should swing-around back in Alberta's favour, especially with the energy policy of the Obama camp being set by the eco-nuts in the Sierra Club.

[Jay]

Re: Gold at $730, Kitco Out Of Everything

De-flation means the reverse of inflation. That is why it is so darn important to think about hyphens and use hypens when you spell.

Therefore, if you buy gold in inflation, you sell gold in de-flation.

And don't tell me that the Ben is going to de-value the U.S. dollar. This will not happen because Saudi Arabia would then just cease pumping.... Game-over. Check-mate.

Finally, selling gold does NOT mean that you sell your core position in gold, but it does mean that you use sucker-rallies in the gold market to sell-out of your speculative gold holdings.

I hold 38 oz of core physical gold which I never sell. But I am many months out of my speculative gold position which was 100 oz in paper gold sold at $907.

And yes, I am hurting plenty too--- but in oil and gas trusts. This is all part of the de-flation story. "House of pain."

But in two years, the situation in oil and gas should swing-around back in Alberta's favour, especially with the energy policy of the Obama camp being set by the eco-nuts in the Sierra Club.

I thought gold was more a hedge for volatility and lack of faith in the system, whether it is deflation or inflation that rears its head.

[phirang]

Re: Gold at $730, Kitco Out Of Everything

De-flation means the reverse of inflation. That is why it is so darn important to think about hyphens and use hypens when you spell.

Therefore, if you buy gold in inflation, you sell gold in de-flation.

And don't tell me that the Ben is going to de-value the U.S. dollar. This will not happen because Saudi Arabia would then just cease pumping.... Game-over. Check-mate.

Finally, selling gold does NOT mean that you sell your core position in gold, but it does mean that you use sucker-rallies in the gold market to sell-out of your speculative gold holdings.

I hold 38 oz of core physical gold which I never sell. But I am many months out of my speculative gold position which was 100 oz in paper gold sold at $907.

And yes, I am hurting plenty too--- but in oil and gas trusts. This is all part of the de-flation story. "House of pain."

But in two years, the situation in oil and gas should swing-around back in Alberta's favour, especially with the energy policy of the Obama camp being set by the eco-nuts in the Sierra Club.

Well, Barrick didn't raise over $1B in debt for nothing... they've ridden these out before.

Ironically, well-cashed juniors may turn out to be the best spec now, aside from some trades that track policy of the gov incentives/financing.

The dollar won't get debauched: some people are just going to buy stuff they really don't like... someone's getting coal for Xmas... HAHA!

[blazespinnaker]

Re: Gold at $730, Kitco Out Of Everything

Read my post:

http://www.itulip.com/forums/showthr...5998#post55998

Bullion / Physical value is going down with paper gold.

Numismatic Gold (eagles / maples / etc) however, have a greater premium than bullion gold.

Also, typical numismatic premium is 5%. 7-8% isn't exactly that crazy.

The Gold Basis is going down every day for the last 7 days. The paper price is going down, while the physical price is not.

Watch if tomorrow's LBMA forward rates will turn negative after today's liquidation. The backwardation will imply a shift to the start of physical metal hoarding.

Gold Forward Rates:
Date------1m------2m------3m------6m-----12m
14-Oct-08 2.17857 2.17143 2.11429 1.87857 1.79286
15-Oct-08 2.10000 2.10833 2.07500 1.91667 1.85000
16-Oct-08 2.10000 2.09286 2.03571 1.87857 1.77857
17-Oct-08 2.00833 2.00000 1.92500 1.86667 1.82500
20-Oct-08 1.70714 1.70000 1.67857 1.73571 1.72571
21-Oct-08 1.65000 1.65000 1.63333 1.62500 1.64000
22-Oct-08 0.81000 0.81000 0.79000 0.98000 1.02000

Igor

[Guest]

Re: Gold at $730, Kitco Out Of Everything

You are right Blazespinnaker, the premiums are unremarkable from Scotia Mocatta (a primary dealer) - but there is a limit as to how much mileage can be squeezed out of this old car tire. Retail / Wholesale spreads for precious metals can never be much more than anecdotal, minor corrolaries to what's happening with ** money ** worldwide. The macro issues, and the "plausibilities", tell the real story. The US dollar is like ICARUS. By a deafening roar of popular acclaim, it has now been "launched at the heavens". And the sunshine up there is hot, hot, hot. Now we get the liquefying "waxy stuff" and the loosened feathers beginning to slough off the "wings". Icarus is looking forward at some point to having to do a heck of a lot of "flappin" to stay aloft ... You want to hitch your wagon to the bonds and treasuries, those gilt-edged devices denominated in Icarus' flight-worthiness, that is your own call to make. Best to think for the intermediate term however, rather than the short term. Unless you want to be hastily scurrying from one asset class to another as events develop.

Read my post:

http://www.itulip.com/forums/showthr...5998#post55998

Bullion / Physical value is going down with paper gold.

Numismatic Gold (eagles / maples / etc) however, have a greater premium than bullion gold.

Also, typical numismatic premium is 5%. 7-8% isn't exactly that crazy.

[jtabeb]

Re: Gold at $730, Kitco Out Of Everything

If you can get those delivered within a reasonable time, then yes, gold is truely fked until poom.

I'm not buying it.

Why did the lease rate shoot up +.5% (between .44 and .58%, depending on time frame) in ONE day as the price DROPS $60.

Strange shit is happening.

[phirang]

Re: Gold at $730, Kitco Out Of Everything

I'm not buying it.

Why did the lease rate shoot up +.5% (between .44 and .58%, depending on time frame) in ONE day as the price DROPS $60.

Strange shit is happening.

lease rate is function of libor

[Guest]

Re: Gold at $730, Kitco Out Of Everything

The hell it won't get debauched! It has now transitioned to the task of becoming wallpaper for cracks all over the world, and you are saying "it won't get debauched". Phirang, what planet are you on? This has got to be the most dreamlike, disembodied, fantasized thing I've ever heard you pronounce on these pages. You make ZERO sense guy.

The dollar won't get debauched: some people are just going to buy stuff they really don't like... someone's getting coal for Xmas... HAHA!

[chris49]

Re: Gold at $730, Kitco Out Of Everything

I have read alot of the gold threads and protecting yourself in the "SHTF" scenario. I have some basic questions on how you execute the plan.

If I understand correctly, paper gold is out (GTU being the best of paper gold). You must buy real gold from a dealer for cash...thus not traceable. If that is the only real way to protect yourself, here are some questions:

What gold do you buy (coins/bars/maples/eagles/etc...?)?

Why buy one vs. the other?

Is there a maximum amount you can buy for cash (Patriot Act like reporting issues)?

Does anyone know a good dealer in NJ/PA/NY...how do you know if you are dealing with a good dealer?

Are there any scams to look out for?

Sorry if this is basic, but I have never done this before...any feedback appreciated.

[Starving Steve]

Re: Gold at $730, Kitco Out Of Everything

I would be a buyer of gold stoxx IF gold stoxx would pay handsome dividends, but they do not. They are just paper backed by hype.

One would think that profitable gold mines would be glad to pay handsome dividends to their stock-holders, but gold mines seem to want the profit all for themselves. They play their stock-holders for suckers.

The welcome result of this greed is that the investing community is finally waking-up and now boycotting gold mines--- all of them, no matter what they earn, no matter where they dig, no matter what they promise, and no matter how much gold they hold.

The lesson for everyone: Gold stoxx are NOT gold, and they do NOT hedge like gold. They provide almost no security against inflation and economic chaos.

[Starving Steve]

Re: Gold at $730, Kitco Out Of Everything

When you buy gold, buy GOLD CONTENT, not rare coins, not blessed coins, not slabbed coins, not tele-marketed coins, not stamps, not religious artifacts, not historic coins, not hype, etc.

Although one ounce pure gold coins are convenient, they are basically worth no more than their gold content.

Although U.S. $20 gold pieces can be beautiful and quite interesting, they are worth not much more than their gold content, especially on high gold markets. However, on depressed gold markets, certain coins such as the old pre-1933 U.S. gold coins do trade above their gold content price. The old five-sovereign British gold coins also trade above gold content on low gold markets.

When you buy gold coins, bring cash. When you sell gold coins, expect cash on the spot payment.

There are strict limits on cash transactions in Canada and the U.S: $10,000 per year in the currency of the country. Otherwise, paperwork has to be filed with tax authorities immediately.

If you can find small dealers, cash leaves no trail. But again, if you are transacting in cash amounts that total over $10,000 per year, you will run-a-foul of currency laws.

When crossing borders, DECLARE ALL GOLD COINS AND ALL CASH IMMEDIATELY. U.S. Customs and Canada Customs will be quite helpful to you if declare everything.

Finally, one pain in the butt: In Canada, there is GST tax and possible provincial sales tax due to the crown on all coins totalling over the personal exemption of $750 per trip. Check with Canada Customs and Revenue to be sure of what your exemption is.

All maple leaves and 0.9999 gold is TAX-EXEMPT in Canada. The same is true of silver maple leaves and 0.999 silver. But check with the C.R.Agency to be sure of provincial tax regulations.

Oh, one more point: when you buy gold or silver, buy the low---LOW---markets, when the blood is running in the streets and no-one wants to look at the stuff. And when you buy the stuff, try to KEEEEEEEEEEEEEP IT forever..... So be sure to have plenty of cash left for your other cost of living needs thru the years. Never over-buy.

Good luck to you, and welcome to coin collecting.

[Jay]

Re: Gold at $730, Kitco Out Of Everything

I would be a buyer of gold stoxx IF gold stoxx would pay handsome dividends, but they do not. They are just paper backed by hype.

One would think that profitable gold mines would be glad to pay handsome dividends to their stock-holders, but gold mines seem to want the profit all for themselves. They play their stock-holders for suckers.

The welcome result of this greed is that the investing community is finally waking-up and now boycotting gold mines--- all of them, no matter what they earn, no matter where they dig, no matter what they promise, and no matter how much gold they hold.

The lesson for everyone: Gold stoxx are NOT gold, and they do NOT hedge like gold. They provide almost no security against inflation and economic chaos.

Man, you are crushing my dreams of vast wealth. ;)

[bpr]

Re: Gold at $730, Kitco Out Of Everything

When you buy gold, buy GOLD CONTENT, not rare coins, not blessed coins, not slabbed coins, not tele-marketed coins, not stamps, not religious artifacts, not historic coins, not hype, etc.

Hi Steve, thanks for the tips. I have a quick quick question: if you can get "slabbed" or "commemorative" pieces that are .9999 (from a major mint, say US or Canada) cheaper than spot, does it really matter? Is bullion just that much better, that you wouldn't touch the slabbed stuff even at a great price?

Oh, one more point: when you buy gold or silver, buy the low---LOW---markets, when the blood is running in the streets and no-one wants to look at the stuff. And when you buy the stuff, try to KEEEEEEEEEEEEEP IT forever..... So be sure to have plenty of cash left for your other cost of living needs thru the years. Never over-buy.

Great advice. Patiently waiting.

[kx5fast]

Re: Gold at $730, Kitco Out Of Everything

As an aside, I spent 25 minutes on hold with Kitco this AM (10/23) and they are in fact out of everything except 400 oz bars.

My interest was in the 100 oz bar, but am considering the 400 oz bar as well.

Some beginner notes I learned from Kitco.

The bars (100 oz and above if I recall) are serial numbered and have "chain of custody" documentation when vaulted. Once they are removed fromt the vault, to say a safety deposit box, the chain of custody is broken and to resell the bullion it must be assayed. Kitco says 2-3% of value assessed for assay cost. Yikes!

Bars can only be moved with armored truck, thus from Kitco to my location NW US estimated freight is US 500. Another Yikes.

That coupled with the 28% collectables tax, can anyone here tell me that is faster on a calculator than me at what price/oz given above fee increments and taxes that a bullion bar would make sense? Assuming annulized inflation of 10%, would gold not have to clear approx. 1,100 oz to even work as insurance?

Appreciate any input and please excuse my ingorance.

RP