Gold at $730, Kitco Out Of Everything

[skurla2000]

https://online.kitco.com/bullion/completelist.html

Gold dropping like a rock (or at least a very heavy metal) in a selling frenzy, but Kitco's got not one shiny product under 50lbs for sale.

What gives?

[jimmygu3]

Re: Gold at $730, Kitco Out Of Everything

APMEX has Eagles ($90 over spot) and Maples ($70 over spot).

[RebbePete]

Re: Gold at $730, Kitco Out Of Everything

It's almost like two different products - "paper gold" which determines the futures price that's reported for "gold," versus "physical gold." Typically, "paper gold" is held by hedge funds, pension funds, etc. who now are strapped for cash and need to sell a lot of their holdings, driving the price of "paper gold" down.

"Physical gold," on the other hand, is held by people "in the know," not purely as an investment, but also as FIRE :rolleyes: insurance against the storm that's building on the horizon. They're are searching for as much as they can get their hands on, driving the price up.

The broader issue here is that it looks like the commodity exchange/futures contract "system" is now "broken" for precious metals. :eek: Just one more sign of the wheels coming off the FIRE engine.

- Pete

[ASH]

Re: Gold at $730, Kitco Out Of Everything

Bullion Direct is offering 1-oz gold maples for about $57 over spot (7.8%) when I checked just now.

If Bullion Direct offers it for sale, then they have it, and they can deliver quickly. I ordered some maples in mid-September from them, and delivery was very prompt.

[blazespinnaker]

Re: Gold at $730, Kitco Out Of Everything

Ok, so I just called scotia mcleod (scotia bank, huge bank in Canada) gold department.

They were 3.16% above the spot price for 1z bars. (750 per oz versus 727 spot price) For 32oz bars, they are 2.6% above spot prices 746 versus 727 spot price.

Commission is 1/8% and some very minor shipping fee I didn't catch.

Ok, then I called the quote line. These prices are recorded in the morning and are not up to the minute like I got from the Gold Department.

They said their bid/ask spread is 750/763, their delivery prices are 789.5 for bullion and for gold maple 817.47

Note that 789 is 3.4% above 763 .. probably includes the commission which is why it isn't 3.16%. They said the delivery prices include all fees and so the price on top of the bid/ask is their bar charge + commission + shipping. From what I gather, this bar charge doesn't change much, though the spread does. A 1.8% bid ask spread is high, but not abnormally so for the physical gold market. Even fxtrade has pretty high spreads for USD/AUX

From what I can see, there is no distortion in the bullion / spot price markets (which is the spot price for bullion). The only distortion you are seeing might be in the maples / bullion spot price markets, because everyone is buying up maples (they want end-of-the-world currency) and ignoring fundamental metal values.

I think if you were seeing any significant distortions, the blogs would be rampant with the news. And yes, I agree, things would indeed be going to hell in a hand basket if that were the case .. which is why I did the due diligence on this one.

[phirang]

Re: Gold at $730, Kitco Out Of Everything

Ok, so I just called scotia mcleod (scotia bank, huge bank in Canada) gold department.

They were 3.16% above the spot price for 1z bars. (750 per oz versus 727 spot price) For 32oz bars, they are 2.6% above spot prices 746 versus 727 spot price.

Commission is 1/8% and some very minor shipping fee I didn't catch.

Ok, then I called the quote line. These prices are recorded in the morning and are not up to the minute like I got from the Gold Department.

They said their bid/ask spread is 750/763, their delivery prices are 789.5 for bullion and for gold maple 817.47

Note that 789 is 3.4% above 763 .. probably includes the commission which is why it isn't 3.16%. The price on top of the bid/ask is their commission or bar charge. From what I gather, this bar charge doesn't change much, though the spread does. A 1.8% bid ask spread is high, but not abnormally so for physical the gold market. Even fxtrade has pretty high spreads for USD/AUX

From what I can see, there is no distortion in the physical / spot price markets. The only distortion you are seeing might be in the maples / spot price markets, because everyone is buying up maples (they want end-of-the-world currency) and ignoring fundamental values.

If you can get those delivered within a reasonable time, then yes, gold is truely fked until poom.

[blazespinnaker]

Re: Gold at $730, Kitco Out Of Everything

If you can get those delivered within a reasonable time, then yes, gold is truely fked until poom.

1 business day delivery. Scotiabank is a 41B sized bank. They've only lost 25% from peak to trough in the latest meltdown, basically, S&P type losses.

They're pretty steady.

[vinoveri]

Re: Gold at $730, Kitco Out Of Everything

Bullion Direct is offering 1-oz gold maples for about $57 over spot (7.8%) when I checked just now.

If Bullion Direct offers it for sale, then they have it, and they can deliver quickly. I ordered some maples in mid-September from them, and delivery was very prompt.

not any more (at 3:50pm anyway).

[phirang]

Re: Gold at $730, Kitco Out Of Everything

Guys, people are buying gold because they CANT GET DOLLARS INSTEAD.

THAT'S WHY THERE'S A GLOBAL GOLD SHORTAGE... BECAUSE THERE'S A DOLLAR SHORTAGE!

IT HAS 0 TO DO WITH "INFLATION", which, btw, IS GONE.

[idianov]

Re: Gold at $730, Kitco Out Of Everything

The Gold Basis is going down every day for the last 7 days. The paper price is going down, while the physical price is not.

Watch if tomorrow's LBMA forward rates will turn negative after today's liquidation. The backwardation will imply a shift to the start of physical metal hoarding.

Gold Forward Rates:
Date------1m------2m------3m------6m-----12m
14-Oct-08 2.17857 2.17143 2.11429 1.87857 1.79286
15-Oct-08 2.10000 2.10833 2.07500 1.91667 1.85000
16-Oct-08 2.10000 2.09286 2.03571 1.87857 1.77857
17-Oct-08 2.00833 2.00000 1.92500 1.86667 1.82500
20-Oct-08 1.70714 1.70000 1.67857 1.73571 1.72571
21-Oct-08 1.65000 1.65000 1.63333 1.62500 1.64000
22-Oct-08 0.81000 0.81000 0.79000 0.98000 1.02000

Igor

[icm63]

Re: Gold at $730, Kitco Out Of Everything

BE WARNED - THE MONEY MEN ARE USING THE DEFLATION SCARE TO FORCE DOWN PRICES SO THEY CAN BY GOLD CHEAPER.

They are using COMEX paper gold to manipulate physical gold.

They will BUY BIG when it gets down low.

$USD is a short covering profit taking rally from years of holding shorts.

It may take months.

[Guest]

Re: Gold at $730, Kitco Out Of Everything

Those are some ground breaking ideas you've got there Phirang.

Some thoughts for you on the "USD trashes GOLD" epiphany, right over here:

http://www.itulip.com/forums/showthr...56028#poststop

Guys, people are buying gold because they CANT GET DOLLARS INSTEAD. THAT'S WHY THERE'S A GLOBAL GOLD SHORTAGE... BECAUSE THERE'S A DOLLAR SHORTAGE! IT HAS 0 TO DO WITH "INFLATION", which, btw, IS GONE.

What an astonishing concept you've got here Phirang. So these gold buyers, have cash, to buy GOLD, and indeed they proceed to buy that GOLD, because they can't get their hands on any CASH. :confused: :confused: :confused: :p World of wonders!

[Jim Nickerson]

Re: Gold at $730, Kitco Out Of Everything

BE WARNED - THE MONEY MEN ARE USING THE DEFLATION SCARE TO FORCE DOWN PRICES SO THEY CAN BY GOLD CHEAPER.

They are using COMEX paper gold to manipulate physical gold.

They will BUY BIG when it gets down low.

$USD is a short covering profit taking rally from years of holding shorts.

It may take months.

You make a lot of assertions here, and I suppose the all-caps in the first and third sentences are meant to strengthen the assertions.

Are these you opinions or are they "facts" based on your being privvy to some insider information?

[Guest]

Re: Gold at $730, Kitco Out Of Everything

Oh for goodness sake. Use your noggin. If there is a catastrophic global deflation ( Yeah right, everything deflates against fiat money! :rolleyes any remaining scraps of purchasing power underpinning the Federal Reserve Note will get evaporated faster than water in a hot frying pan because it is FIAT. They will triple the supply in two years papering over the world's financial cracks. Then when the panic subsides, what will you be holding? It's called "looking forward" and "positioning yourself in the more fundamentally correct asset before the barking crowd does".

Do you have any idea how small the pool of available gold is to satisfy even 1% of global savers bidding on it concertedly? What? They've issued you with a cue ticket, so when the USD emperor is suddenly percieved by all to really have no clothes, let alone even a crown, everyone will get into an orderly line to buy the remaining scraps of gold on the market?? Like hell they will cue up. The devil take the hindmost, is what it will be for putting your precious retirement savings into what everyone else will suddenly be piling into. ONE PERCENT of global savings going into gold will exhaust all inventories.

Instead, look at this. All of a sudden we have a gaggle of squawking, eager grasping US dollar fans here, and supposedly everyone is "climbing all over each other" to get their hands on more Federal Reserve Notes. Gold is trash! FEH! Yecch! Got to get rid of this vile filthy yellow metal and rush out to buy some more beautiful and crisp Federal Reserve Notes!! :eek: :eek: :eek:

Unbelievable myopia.

You make a lot of assertions here, and I suppose the all-caps in the first and third sentences are meant to strengthen the assertions. Are these you opinions or are they "facts" based on your being privvy to some insider information?

Here is the face of your global deflation:

Merv, the Guv of the Bank of England spoke on TV tonight...............he said the "R" word (He was thinking the "D" word). The Pound which was $1.77 a few days ago hit $1.66 in mins. The World is in shock, but once it gets a grip it will see that After Iceland Britian is heading into a black hole! (Nasty Limey Bastards Ho Ho Ho) Mike

[TopherMi]

Re: Gold at $730, Kitco Out Of Everything

Bullion Direct is offering 1-oz gold maples for about $57 over spot (7.8%) when I checked just now.

If Bullion Direct offers it for sale, then they have it, and they can deliver quickly. I ordered some maples in mid-September from them, and delivery was very prompt.

Don't bet on it. I bought metal at BD in Jan and Jun and asked for delivery at the end of Sept. Still don't have it. I did get an e-mail stating that they would send it when it came in. WTF! Beware.

I have had an account there since 2004 with over 80 trades. Past experience has been great. Not so happy now.