Six found dead in Porter Ranch home

[FRED]

Six found dead in Porter Ranch home
October 6, 2008 (Richard Winton and Ari B. Bloomekatz, Los Angeles Times)

Police say an unemployed financial advisor apparently shot and killed his wife, mother-in-law, and three sons before turning the gun on himself.

An unemployed financial advisor apparently despondent over his situation shot and killed his wife, his mother-in-law and three children before taking his own life in a gated community in Porter Ranch in the northwest San Fernando Valley, Los Angeles police said today. more...

AntiSpin: Sad stuff. Take it easy out there, folks. Compassion is the order of the day. Promises were made and promises will not be kept about the economy, about housing prices, about the stock market. If you were one of the folks who believed the lies, don't beat yourself up. Give yourself a break. You are not alone. You are among millions. But we're Americans. We'll figure it out.

[a warren]

Re: Six found dead in Porter Ranch home

Give yourself a break. You are not alone. You are among millions. But we're Americans. We'll figure it out.[/quote]

That is terribly sad. But it is also sad that you come up with the 'we're Americans' nationalism. Whats that got to do with it? You think everyone in Europe, Australasia, Russia, Asia etc is having a swell old time?

Nationalism is half the problem, not the solution. I guess I can't understand what it is like to come from a country that has always believed in its own superiority.....

[sishya]

Re: Six found dead in Porter Ranch home

No one is exhibiting Nationalism. We just think this is a time to show Compassion to your family and fellow countrymen. No vendetta required. Money cannot replace Morals.

[ASH]

Re: Six found dead in Porter Ranch home

Nationalism is half the problem, not the solution. I guess I can't understand what it is like to come from a country that has always believed in its own superiority.....

First of all, while this is an appeal to national identity, it isn't necessarily an appeal to nationalism... at least "nationalism" with the semantic baggage you imply.

What is the difference? I'd say that nationalism has to do with group identity specifically in relation to other nations -- our policy toward them, and a sense of competition with them -- whereas a simple appeal to national identity can be solely about national self-image. If an American has been taught to think that an optimistic, can-do attitude and communal concern for his neighbors is his birthright, then reminding him that he's an American may provide some emotional support without requiring him to measure himself against citizens of other nations. At one level, the message is "buck up, and stop feeling sorry for yourself." Reminding yourself of your higher ideals in times of stress can improve the poise with which you meet your fate.

In any case, nationalism -- or patriotism -- can play a major role in emerging from an economic crisis -- for good or ill. National Socialism is one negative example, but there's also the example of the South Koreans responding to the Asian Currency Crisis.

I would further point out that things will be better for most everyone in a crisis if the bonds of community remain intact -- indeed, if they strengthen. Reminding people that they are not alone, but members of a community -- with neighbors on whom they can rely, and to whom they owe aid and consideration -- is not a bad thing.

Of course, as iTulip's readership is international, an appeal to American national identity and self-image is narrowly focussed. It is a sentiment that some Americans may appreciate (although, I think, fewer proportionately of the iTulip crowd, as many are on the cynical side), but I can understand why it would not play well more generally. I suggest you take it this way: It is not "USA! USA! Number 1! Woot woot!" but rather "Remember that you are a member of a large community, you are not alone, and you have a cultural ideal to live up to. Pull yourself together, man!"

[jtabeb]

Re: Six found dead in Porter Ranch home

No one is exhibiting Nationalism. We just think this is a time to show Compassion to your family and fellow countrymen. No vendetta required. Money cannot replace Morals.

Here, Here.

[don]

Re: Six found dead in Porter Ranch home

First of all, while this is an appeal to national identity, it isn't necessarily an appeal to nationalism... at least "nationalism" with the semantic baggage you imply.

What is the difference? I'd say that nationalism has to do with group identity specifically in relation to other nations -- our policy toward them, and a sense of competition with them -- whereas a simple appeal to national identity can be solely about national self-image. If an American has been taught to think that an optimistic, can-do attitude and communal concern for his neighbors is his birthright, then reminding him that he's an American may provide some emotional support without requiring him to measure himself against citizens of other nations. At one level, the message is "buck up, and stop feeling sorry for yourself." Reminding yourself of your higher ideals in times of stress can improve the poise with which you meet your fate.

In any case, nationalism -- or patriotism -- can play a major role in emerging from an economic crisis -- for good or ill. National Socialism is one negative example, but there's also the example of the South Koreans responding to the Asian Currency Crisis.

I would further point out that things will be better for most everyone in a crisis if the bonds of community remain intact -- indeed, if they strengthen. Reminding people that they are not alone, but members of a community -- with neighbors on whom they can rely, and to whom they owe aid and consideration -- is not a bad thing.

Of course, as iTulip's readership is international, an appeal to American national identity and self-image is narrowly focussed. It is a sentiment that some Americans may appreciate (although, I think, fewer proportionately of the iTulip crowd, as many are on the cynical side), but I can understand why it would not play well more generally. I suggest you take it this way: It is not "USA! USA! Number 1! Woot woot!" but rather "Remember that you are a member of a large community, you are not alone, and you have a cultural ideal to live up to. Pull yourself together, man!"

There may actually be an All-American component to this tragedy. For some time now we've seen frequent stories of suicides insisting on taking others along for the one-way trip to oblivion. I don't know if this phenomenon is found elsewhere but it sure comes up at home often. And it's almost always* the exclusive preserve of white guys. (Serial killers, too, but that's another matter) "Going Postal" "Road Rage" These have been around for awhile and appear to have more than a little life left in them. Any thoughts why?

*I know the largest campus massacre killer wasn't white. I know that.

[phirang]

Re: Six found dead in Porter Ranch home

It just means more resources left for the survivors... it's cruel nature at work.

Visit a country where children beg for plastic bottles... give some perspective eh.

[ASH]

Re: Six found dead in Porter Ranch home

There may actually be an All-American component to this tragedy. For some time now we've seen frequent stories of suicides insisting on taking others along for the one-way trip to oblivion. I don't know if this phenomenon is found elsewhere but it sure comes up at home often. And it's almost always* the exclusive preserve of white guys. (Serial killers, too, but that's another matter) "Going Postal" "Road Rage" These have been around for awhile and appear to have more than a little life left in them. Any thoughts why?

*I know the largest campus massacre killer wasn't white. I know that.

As a gun-owner, I hate to say this, but one potential reason for wider "involvement" in these murder-suicides is probably the availability of the technical means to kill more people with minimal effort. I suppose that culture may play a role, but the Asian perpetrator of the recent campus massacre had this in common with white nutjobs -- he lived in American society and hence had freer access to firearms than most foreign nutjobs.

(I'm not looking to get sucked into a big debate over gun ownership here... just making the observation.)

I'm speculating from too little data (as I often do), but my guess is that one cultural factor affecting collateral involvement is whether one commits suicide out of personal shame (you just kill yourself), despair at the inability to meet one's duties (you kill the wife and kids too, because you can't support them), or rage over an intolerable situation you believe is hopeless (you kill yourself and the girl who dumped you or the boss who fired you, etc.). There are likely cultural differences in aggregate attitudes toward each of these scenarios. Some might be more inclined to blame others for their misfortunes, and others might be more likely to find fault within themselves.

Personally, I could do with fewer nutjobs.

[phirang]

Re: Six found dead in Porter Ranch home

Plenty of South Indian farmers have been killing themselves and their families for years without handguns.

This will only become more common in the US.

[don]

Re: Six found dead in Porter Ranch home

As a gun-owner, I hate to say this, but one potential reason for wider "involvement" in these murder-suicides is probably the availability of the technical means to kill more people with minimal effort. I suppose that culture may play a role, but the Asian perpetrator of the recent campus massacre had this in common with white nutjobs -- he lived in American society and hence had freer access to firearms than most foreign nutjobs.

(I'm not looking to get sucked into a big debate over gun ownership here... just making the observation.)

I'm speculating from too little data (as I often do), but my guess is that one cultural factor affecting collateral involvement is whether one commits suicide out of personal shame (you just kill yourself), despair at the inability to meet one's duties (you kill the wife and kids too, because you can't support them), or rage over an intolerable situation you believe is hopeless (you kill yourself and the girl who dumped you or the boss who fired you, etc.). There are likely cultural differences in aggregate attitudes toward each of these scenarios. Some might be more inclined to blame others for their misfortunes, and others might be more likely to find fault within themselves.

Personally, I could do with fewer nutjobs.

Me too, on fewer nut jobs. In addition to what you listed, I'd include White Privilege. I wouldn't be surprised if there's an element of betrayal in some of those rages.

don (a white guy)

[metalman]

Re: Six found dead in Porter Ranch home

As a gun-owner, I hate to say this, but one potential reason for wider "involvement" in these murder-suicides is probably the availability of the technical means to kill more people with minimal effort. I suppose that culture may play a role, but the Asian perpetrator of the recent campus massacre had this in common with white nutjobs -- he lived in American society and hence had freer access to firearms than most foreign nutjobs.

(I'm not looking to get sucked into a big debate over gun ownership here... just making the observation.)

I'm speculating from too little data (as I often do), but my guess is that one cultural factor affecting collateral involvement is whether one commits suicide out of personal shame (you just kill yourself), despair at the inability to meet one's duties (you kill the wife and kids too, because you can't support them), or rage over an intolerable situation you believe is hopeless (you kill yourself and the girl who dumped you or the boss who fired you, etc.). There are likely cultural differences in aggregate attitudes toward each of these scenarios. Some might be more inclined to blame others for their misfortunes, and others might be more likely to find fault within themselves.

Personally, I could do with fewer nutjobs.

as a gun owner (surprise!) i have to agree.

a gun makes it way too easy for a distraught and probably drunk and very likely middle aged and nearly 100% likely male (race optional) to kill his wife who is yelling at him about what a loser he is for losing the family's money and how are they going to pay the mortgage and what about the baby's diabetes's medicine and... blam! blam! blam!

whew. that shut her up. oh, crap. i killed her. and the kids! oh my god!

blam!

the end.

[c1ue]

Re: Six found dead in Porter Ranch home

Whitman had way more style.



Talk about nowhere to hide: people were shot in their apartments. Beside their trucks. Walking around on the grass.

And much of this was with a bunch of people shooting back at him, including someone in a plane.

Va. Tech was the usual geek overachievement at the expense of style.

[metalman]

Re: Six found dead in Porter Ranch home

i don't like Mondays. :eek:

[phirang]

Re: Six found dead in Porter Ranch home

We need a big war so we can kill someone besides ourselves...

[tombat1913]

Re: Six found dead in Porter Ranch home

We need a big war so we can kill someone besides ourselves...

............WTF?