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  • Flaw with the rescue plan?

    From what I gather, the plan is to buy MBS that are said to be illiquid currently but really worth something. Even assuming the govn't doesn't overpay, I'm wondering

    1. For fixed rate mortgages held in these securities: Won't inflation cause these securities to fall in value over time as other new mortgages are paying higher rates? Just like if you hold a 3% bond and the going rate becomes 5%, your bond is now worth less than before ( unless held to maturity. But then you're getting paid back in debased dollars)

    2. For variable rate mortgages held in these securities, which I assume predominate: As inflation expectations and cause rates paid by mortgagees to be reset higher and higher, won't the rate of default rise above the current one, again making the underlying securities worth less and less? Surely you'll see more defaults as rates rise. Or do we think short term rates won't rise?

    3. If mortgage rates rise won't home values continue to fall as this affects affordability? Won't this in turn cause more and more home 'owners" with both variable and fixed rate mortgages to "walk away" from loans rather than overpay for a home now worth a lot less than the mortgage? I rented a $550K place at the beach a couple years ago for $1250/mo. I would never have bought there due to this reason.

    4. Won't a continued recession (which few seem to deny) result in more unemployment, stagnant wages for the employed, and hence more defaults? So again the value of the securities bought by the govn't will be headed down, not up.

    5. Won't injecting this much liquidity into the market be inflationary in itself and therefore cause rates to rise? Then add to that unfunded obligations and the monetization that will require and it doesn't look like anything but more inflation over the life of these mortgages. So how will libor and other rates stay steady or drop, which is the only way you wouldn't see more defaults?

    6. If these MBS are so valuable why isn't someone with a lot of dollars buying them? (SWFs, foreign central banks, etc?)

    7. If they're so hard to value, how can government do it any better than the free market? Won't the government just hire private firms to look them over anyway?

    8. What will force banks to use this liquidity to make loans? As they've recently learned, lending to those who can't repay you is not a great idea. Ultimately won't they refuse to lend to marginal borrowers? (which is much of the economy).

    9. If we bail out now and still collapse down the line from other problems (CDS, credit card debt, etc), will it mean we are then $700B less able to solve our problems at that point? Will we have just accelerated and prolonged the depression? After all, if the govn't holds the securities it faces the same cash crunch as the banks. It can print to solve its problems, but for how long?

  • #2
    Re: Flaw with the rescue plan?

    I don't know about 8.

    But even unlimited Fed liquidity may not fix the money markets. The Fed’s torrent of cash pushed the fed funds rate down to 1% this week, from a high of 6% in the wake of Lehman’s failure. But few borrowers benefited: some creditworthy firms paid 5% on overnight commercial paper this week and European banks paid 11% for overnight dollar funds from the ECB on September 30th. This partly reflects a temporary quarter-end scramble for funds. Burned on Lehman debt, many money-market mutual funds have also stopped buying commercial paper. Banks have picked up some of the slack, but many are reluctant to lend because their capital bases are already suffering from loan losses, and they are uneasy about the ability of many customers to roll over the paper. More lending by the Fed cannot create capital or trust; it is counting on the $700 billion bail-out plan for that.

    http://www.economist.com/finance/dis...ry_id=12342673

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    • #3
      Re: Flaw with the rescue plan?

      Originally posted by brucec42 View Post
      8. What will force banks to use this liquidity to make loans? As they've recently learned, lending to those who can't repay you is not a great idea. Ultimately won't they refuse to lend to marginal borrowers? (which is much of the economy).
      Right, there's nothing forcing the banks to use this money the way it's intended.

      Did you listen to the call?

      http://itulip.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5557

      One of the last questions (I think it was the last question, in fact) went something like:
      Q: Will there be any oversight to ensure that the liquidity provided is actually re-lent, and makes it back into the system? A mandate, or anything?
      A: No, no mandate.

      it's at about 4:30 here:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnfyVGM-wfg

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Flaw with the rescue plan?

        Originally posted by bpr View Post
        Right, there's nothing forcing the banks to use this money the way it's intended.

        Did you listen to the call?

        http://itulip.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5557

        One of the last questions (I think it was the last question, in fact) went something like:
        Q: Will there be any oversight to ensure that the liquidity provided is actually re-lent, and makes it back into the system? A mandate, or anything?
        A: No, no mandate.

        it's at about 4:30 here:
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnfyVGM-wfg
        re: the above. I figure that if banks are anticipating further waves of defaults they'll want to keep the money on hand to replace write downs and stave off collapse instead.

        I'm more and more starting to see this whole thing of the last year as being like a caring father who first borrows $1,000 to bond out his son who gets in trouble as a teen rather than let him sit in jail till trial.

        Then later he has to borrow more money to pay to fix someone's car the teenager wrecks into because he took the money for the insurance payment and spent it. He also has to borrow to buy the kid a replacement car since the kid complains "but I can't get a job w/o a car!"

        A few years later he's asked to "lend" him a substantial amount of money so he can pay his rent and keep his car, which allows him to continue going to work, and therefore he won't become homeless and a burden on the father. He borrows more money and lends it to the son and is of course never paid back.

        Then later, after fathering a few children the son comes to dad asking for even more so that he won't lose his home/car/job with " do it for my children" as the reason. "what do you want, your grandkids to be homeless?". So the father forks over more cash after mortgaging his own house even further.

        Later the son is broke again and as a final solution the father is coherced into buying the son's home so that he won't lose it and put his children out in the street and forcing them to leave their schools and comfortable lives.

        But you see, the father is not solvent himself. He always spent a little more than he earned and now buying yet another home with borrowed money puts him over the edge as the rent his son pays isn't what he hoped for. Now HE's in deep financial trouble. And worse, his son is now in even worse trouble since he also hasn't been paying his car payment or showing up to work regularly. And he's asking the father for even more money now. And now the father is getting older and can't earn like he could in the past. The father would likely go bankrupt even without the son's debts but he's now being asked to go even further into debt. So what does he do? He STEALS it from his neighbors who lived below their means and spent less than they earned.


        If carried on long enough the father, son, and neighbors will all be destitute.

        Meanwhile, the constant bailouts have taught the son that no matter how irresponsible, he will be bailed out, so why bother with those quaint old concepts like prudence, saving, and taking one's lumps for one's mistakes in life.

        So, looking back. Was not letting the kid sit in jail as a life lesson a good idea or a bad one? Or at least refusing to buy him a car and pay off his debts? Which is worse? A young healthy man who is temporarily homeless and learns a lesson and has a father who is struggling but comfortable. Or 20 years later a son with a homeless elderly father and elderly neighbors who are all living in cardboard boxes with no "lender of last resort" available?

        I don't doubt the bailout will stave off disaster. But for how long? Are we better prepared for a depression now or in 5-10 years?

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        • #5
          Re: Flaw with the rescue plan?

          Disaster for whom?

          The bailout will give the banks and the economy time... time to find a new consumer.

          Who is the new consumer?

          The government: time for EJ's P3 intrastructure/alt e bubble to dawn!

          Btw, the decline of the consumer will help that nasty trade deficit.
          Last edited by phirang; October 03, 2008, 05:00 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Flaw with the rescue plan?

            Originally posted by phirang View Post
            Disaster for whom?

            The bailout will give the banks and the economy time... time to find a new consumer.

            Who is the new consumer?

            The government: time for EJ's P3 intrastructure/alt e bubble to dawn!

            Btw, the decline of the consumer will help that nasty trade deficit.
            If the Government wanted to fund infrastructure it didn't need a bailout of the Wall Street banksters to accomplish it. Direct govt. loans to states would do it.

            Alt energy could also be supported by the government by shifting subsidies and tax incentives from Wall Street's malinvestment schemes to this new energy arena, and this too doesn't need a Bailout to get it done!

            As a consumer, the govt. doesn't (or shouldn't) need Wall Street to get anything done it wants to get done. It is too bad the govt. gave up control over how money gets spent to the Wall Street banksters, the Fed, and the FIRE economy long ago. Toss in the corrupt military-industrial complex and there is a lot of money that could of been used by govt. as it should have, for the benefit of the people instead of the vampires sucking us dry.

            This bailout is the grandest larceny ever committed upon us.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Flaw with the rescue plan?

              Originally posted by godraz View Post
              If the Government wanted to fund infrastructure it didn't need a bailout of the Wall Street banksters to accomplish it. Direct govt. loans to states would do it.

              Alt energy could also be supported by the government by shifting subsidies and tax incentives from Wall Street's malinvestment schemes to this new energy arena, and this too doesn't need a Bailout to get it done!

              As a consumer, the govt. doesn't (or shouldn't) need Wall Street to get anything done it wants to get done. It is too bad the govt. gave up control over how money gets spent to the Wall Street banksters, the Fed, and the FIRE economy long ago. Toss in the corrupt military-industrial complex and there is a lot of money that could of been used by govt. as it should have, for the benefit of the people instead of the vampires sucking us dry.

              This bailout is the grandest larceny ever committed upon us.
              Well, the bankers need their ton of flesh.

              There's no more collateral left. It's time to build it.

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