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Are Morgan Stanley, Farmer Mac, Wachovia Bank and Ambac next to fail?

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  • Are Morgan Stanley, Farmer Mac, Wachovia Bank and Ambac next to fail?

    According to the latest Wachovia filings, as of June 30th 2008, they had $79 billion in Mortgage-backed securities and $21.5 billion in CMOs on the books, with all of it marked as for available for sale (fair market value).

    I'm with c1ue, Mr. Mortgage and the rest on this one ~ Wachovia is D-U-N, DONE.

    September 26, 2008

    Source: FinanceMarkets.co.uk

    by Brian Turner

    Wachovia Corporation (WB)

    When Harvard economist, Professor Kenneth Rogoff - formerly head of the IMF - predicted at the end of August that at least one major US bank would collapse along with hundreds of smaller banks, trader speculation fell on three names:

    - Lehman Brothers
    - Washington Mutual
    - Wachovia Corporation

    Since his warning on August 28th, we saw Lehman Brothers file bankruptcy on September 15th, and Washington Mutual was taken over by the OTS last night and sold to JP Morgan.

    It now remains to be seen how the Wachovia bank will hold up.
    What all three had in common was extensive exposure to subprime mortgage assets, specifically ALT-A, interest only mortgages, which were a particularly toxic mix of short-term discount and self certification - and which have seen defaults in the region of up to 20% in some US metropolitan areas.

    While Washington Mutual had exposure of $56 billion in ALT-A mortgages, Wachovia has exposure to over $160 billion in the same market.

    The 20% foreclosure rate isn’t the only loss for banks holding these mortgage loans - there is another 20% potential loss through foreclosure and resale in the middle of the worst housing crisis in the US.

    With a string of high profile collapses in the US, and a lack of confidence in US companies with significant mortgage exposure, all eyes will be on Wachovia to see whether it can survive long enough to see a Federal plan legislated.

    Ambac (ABK)

    Ambac is the second-largest bond insurer in the US, and between July 2007 to 2008, lost over 95% of its share price value.

    The main reason, again, was massive exposure to subprime mortgages, as a number of bond insurers had expanded from insuring not just bonds, but also subprime mortgage assets.

    The result was that bond insurers backing mortgages faced heavy write-downs.

    We’ve not been the only ones to cheer the downtrodden bond insurers such as Ambac and MBIA, and both companies saw share prices leap to highs over August, before these slipped back.

    While Ambac shares have since recovered from $1.9 a share on July 15th of this year, to $3.0 yesterday, the company is facing serious problems.

    Moody’s has given notice that Ambac credit ratings are under review. If it does, Amabc could be next to go without a US government bail-out plan.

    According to a report on Marketwatch:
    Ambac Financial Group said late Friday that a downgrade by ratings agency Moody’s Investors Service would leave its guaranteed investment-contract business short of collateral to meet liabilities. The company also said plans to pump $850 million into a new municipal bond-insurance business called Connie Lee have been postponed. In addition, Ambac cancelled a $50 million share-buyback plan that was announced earlier this year.
    In other words, the company’s recovery plans have been shelved, and if downgraded, Ambac has no cash to pay its obligations - setting the scene for either a bankruptcy or bail out.

    Neither which is likely to instill confidence in the US financial system, which is already reeling from a strong of collapses and outright lack of investor confidence.

    Of course, if the Paulson Plan comes to fruition first, then there is hope yet for Ambac - but it’s hardly comforting that the future of the company’s survival could be entirely dependent on massive government aid.
    Bloomberg.com - 09/25/08 - Short-Sale Ban Fails to Save Ambac From 50% Plunge

    Farmer Mac, as government-sponsored enterprise Federal Agricultural Mortgage is known, plunged 65 percent to $5.25 since Sept. 18. The Washington-based company said Sept. 22 that its reserves may fall short of federal requirements. Farmer Mac hired a financial adviser to assist in selling assets and common and preferred stock.

    [..]

    New York-based Morgan Stanley retreated 50 percent to an almost 10-year low of $21.75 in the seven days ended Sept. 17. It rebounded 14 percent, helped by the Bush administration's proposal to spend $700 billion on troubled bank assets. Goldman, which lost 36 percent to $108 over eight days ending Sept. 18, has since rallied 23 percent, helped by a $5 billion investment from Warren Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway Inc.

    Conseco Inc., a Carmel, Indiana-based insurer that's also on the no-short list, retreated 40 percent to $4.78 since Sept. 18. Western Alliance Bancorp, a Las Vegas-based lender, plunged 43 percent to $14.68, while Ames National Corp., a bank based in Ames, Iowa, sank 37 percent to $26.71.
    Financial Times 09/25/08 - Morgan Stanley suffers cash flight

    Morgan Stanley lost close to a third of assets in its prime brokerage last week, amounting to hundreds of billions of dollars, as hedge funds fled after the collapse of Lehman Brothers and moved to rival banks.

    The losses, confirmed by several people familiar with the business, will deal a big blow to Morgan Stanley as its prime brokerage is one of its most profitable and successful businesses.

    [..]

    Many of the world’s biggest hedge funds moved their assets to commercial banks regarded as safer last week, as they and their investors worried that Morgan Stanley could follow Lehman into trouble.

    “The primary thing our investors have been trying to understand is counterparty risk,” said the head of one big London fund.
    Morgan Stanley’s London prime brokerage lost closer to half its assets, as hedge funds worried about fellow funds caught up in the collapse of Lehman that found they could not access assets in Lehman’s European arm.

    In the US, the bankruptcy filing for Lehman’s brokerage subsidiary was delayed for several days after the bank failed, allowing many funds to move elsewhere, but the London business was put straight into administration, trapping an estimated $40bn of hedge fund assets.

    Banks such as JPMorgan, Credit Suisse, Citigroup, Deutsche Bank, Barclays Capital and UBS attracted many Morgan Stanley clients, in spite of efforts by the bank’s executives to persuade rivals not to approach customers.
    see also: the Daily List Of Companies Reporting Lehman Bros Exposure on CNNMoney.com.

  • #2
    Re: Are Morgan Stanley, Farmer Mac, Wachovia Bank and Ambac next to fail?

    Originally posted by babbittd View Post
    According to the latest Wachovia filings, as of June 30th 2008, they had $79 billion in Mortgage-backed securities and $21.5 billion in CMOs on the books, with all of it marked as for available for sale (fair market value).

    I'm with c1ue, Mr. Mortgage and the rest on this one ~ Wachovia is D-U-N, DONE.



    Bloomberg.com - 09/25/08 - Short-Sale Ban Fails to Save Ambac From 50% Plunge



    Financial Times 09/25/08 - Morgan Stanley suffers cash flight



    see also: the Daily List Of Companies Reporting Lehman Bros Exposure on CNNMoney.com.
    The media chatter seems to be ignoring Citi. Does anybody really think that Pandit can save that mother? Given the Citi equity held by non-Americans, particularly Middle East interests including Al Waleed bin Talal, I don't see there will be much sympathy amongst the Washington politicians to save it. Wasn't large foreign ownership the reason Lehman was sacrificed?

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Are Morgan Stanley, Farmer Mac, Wachovia Bank and Ambac next to fail?

      Originally posted by GRG55 View Post
      The media chatter seems to be ignoring Citi. Does anybody really think that Pandit can save that mother? Given the Citi equity held by non-Americans, particularly Middle East interests including Al Waleed bin Talal, I don't see there will be much sympathy amongst the Washington politicians to save it. Wasn't large foreign ownership the reason Lehman was sacrificed?
      If the GCC'ers dare not bail us out, they will awaken to Israeli F-16's with depleted uranium warheads hitting hardened-targets in Iran, and that means no more Gucci for Ahmed!

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Are Morgan Stanley, Farmer Mac, Wachovia Bank and Ambac next to fail?

        Originally posted by GRG55 View Post
        The media chatter seems to be ignoring Citi. Does anybody really think that Pandit can save that mother? Given the Citi equity held by non-Americans, particularly Middle East interests including Al Waleed bin Talal, I don't see there will be much sympathy amongst the Washington politicians to save it. Wasn't large foreign ownership the reason Lehman was sacrificed?
        What you said about Lehman and foreign ownership makes sense. It fits in with balking in New York and Washington against including foreign banks in the current give-away discussions.

        Here is some news about Citi in Forbes.com yesterday:

        'Citi has been characterized as having a more substantial exposure to the impaired securities that are under question,' said Keith Wirtz, president and chief investment officer of Fifth Third Asset Management.

        The bank has posted $57.5 billion of write-downs and losses since the credit crunch hit a year ago, and was forced to cut its dividend and raise some $30 billion from investors to strengthen its capital base.
        Perusing the latest SEC filing and in the 2nd quarter of '08, Citi paid off a handful of individuals and companies that were litigating for exposure to Enron.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Are Morgan Stanley, Farmer Mac, Wachovia Bank and Ambac next to fail?

          Originally posted by GRG55
          The media chatter seems to be ignoring Citi. Does anybody really think that Pandit can save that mother? Given the Citi equity held by non-Americans, particularly Middle East interests including Al Waleed bin Talal, I don't see there will be much sympathy amongst the Washington politicians to save it. Wasn't large foreign ownership the reason Lehman was sacrificed?
          I'm still considerin Citi.

          The likelihood that they will disappear is receding; my leaning at this point is a breakup into a bank vs. investment house, with the latter being left out to die.

          The problems are several:

          1) Screwing Al Waleed isn't going to persuade Saudi Arabia to continue to pour money into their partner - the US
          2) Citi is too ubiquitous; any other bank taking over Citi's deposits would have to fire ten of thousands of employees and close hundreds of branches. That would likely itself significantly add to the ongoing recession.
          3) Citi does still have a lot of assets - selling parts of the foreign operations could still raise quite a bit of cash

          Also from what I can tell - though Citi does have lots of bad mortgage related crap, it doesn't have the counterparty bets Lehman did.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Are Morgan Stanley, Farmer Mac, Wachovia Bank and Ambac next to fail?

            Originally posted by c1ue View Post
            I'm still considerin Citi.

            The likelihood that they will disappear is receding; my leaning at this point is a breakup into a bank vs. investment house, with the latter being left out to die.

            The problems are several:

            1) Screwing Al Waleed isn't going to persuade Saudi Arabia to continue to pour money into their partner - the US
            2) Citi is too ubiquitous; any other bank taking over Citi's deposits would have to fire ten of thousands of employees and close hundreds of branches. That would likely itself significantly add to the ongoing recession.
            3) Citi does still have a lot of assets - selling parts of the foreign operations could still raise quite a bit of cash

            Also from what I can tell - though Citi does have lots of bad mortgage related crap, it doesn't have the counterparty bets Lehman did.

            Citi has a lot of exposure outside america, particularly in the Asia Pac region, and real estate will blow up as in Florida and california, more writeoff for citi next 2 years to come. citi has been extremely aggressive in lending here in singapore.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Are Morgan Stanley, Farmer Mac, Wachovia Bank and Ambac next to fail?

              Originally posted by c1ue View Post
              I'm still considerin Citi.

              The likelihood that they will disappear is receding; my leaning at this point is a breakup into a bank vs. investment house, with the latter being left out to die.

              The problems are several:

              1) Screwing Al Waleed isn't going to persuade Saudi Arabia to continue to pour money into their partner - the US
              2) Citi is too ubiquitous; any other bank taking over Citi's deposits would have to fire ten of thousands of employees and close hundreds of branches. That would likely itself significantly add to the ongoing recession.
              3) Citi does still have a lot of assets - selling parts of the foreign operations could still raise quite a bit of cash

              Also from what I can tell - though Citi does have lots of bad mortgage related crap, it doesn't have the counterparty bets Lehman did.

              Interesting view; and you've obviously put a lot of thought into it C1ue. Here's a few questions though...
              1. At a time when investment banks [Bear, Merrill] are being folded into deposit banks, why would Citi want to do the opposite?
              2. Does the Saudi government really give a damn about the personal investment performance of any individual including Prince Al Waleed?
              3. Is saving low-level banking jobs and keeping retail branches open even on the list of criteria that Treasury, the Fed and the Administration are using to make decisions?
              4. Could Citi just "fade away"...sequentially sell the valuable assets [those that can attract a bid] in a desperate effort to raise capital, and ultimately disappear when the non-saleable parts are either forceably liquidated or merged into JPM or BAC on orders from the Treasury/Fed?

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Are Morgan Stanley, Farmer Mac, Wachovia Bank and Ambac next to fail?

                .
                Last edited by Nervous Drake; January 19, 2015, 01:12 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Are Morgan Stanley, Farmer Mac, Wachovia Bank and Ambac next to fail?

                  Originally posted by GRG55

                  At a time when investment banks [Bear, Merrill] are being folded into deposit banks, why would Citi want to do the opposite?
                  I'm not saying that Citi would get out of depository banking in the US, I'm saying Citi has subsidiaries in other countries doing depository banking which could be sold to raise cash. After all, the ring fence works both ways.

                  Originally posted by GRG55
                  Does the Saudi government really give a damn about the personal investment performance of any individual including Prince Al Waleed?
                  In general, for individuals, I would say you are right. I do wonder, however, just how 'individual' al Waleed is. He is a nephew of King Abdullah; while certainly there are thousands of members of the House of Saud, I don't think there are that many within 1 remove. Maybe a several hundred.

                  Either way, al Waleed put in a ton of money into Citigroup WAY back in the 90s. This was pretty much everything he had back then - I question whether this was political or just an astute move on his part.

                  If al Waleed truly is independent, then you are right. I personally just don't think so.

                  Originally posted by GRG55
                  Is saving low-level banking jobs and keeping retail branches open even on the list of criteria that Treasury, the Fed and the Administration are using to make decisions?
                  If it were only the jobs themselves, certainly not. But unlike WaMu, anyone taking over Citi's locations would pretty much have to close all of them down and fire all the retail employees. This will be used as an excuse: the loss of jobs and the commercial RE impact of so many locations going back on the market.

                  Originally posted by GRG55
                  Could Citi just "fade away"...sequentially sell the valuable assets [those that can attract a bid] in a desperate effort to raise capital, and ultimately disappear when the non-saleable parts are either forceably liquidated or merged into JPM or BAC on orders from the Treasury/Fed?
                  It is possible, but between the heavy political hitters with Citi ties, the jobs/locations thing, and the international assets, I am wondering if this is possible.

                  Citi also, while it has been heavily hit, doesn't have most of the characteristics of the other institutions that have/are going down:

                  1) Heavy Option ARM exposure
                  2) Undue exposure to the CA/FL/NV real estate mortgage markets
                  3) Market maker in CDS
                  4) Market maker in any other derivative
                  5) Obtained most of its revenue from mortgage securitization
                  6) No/insufficient deposits acting as an anchor for capitalization requirements

                  Citi's main problems so far have been from consumption of mortgage crap in its off balance sheet pools. Those have been coming onto the balance sheet and that's why they are hurting.

                  But what I look for is a smoking gun, and the one I thought would do it (SIVs) hasn't - at least not yet.

                  My original reason for dumping out last year was certainly proven valid, but the full thesis was Citi getting taken down and that may be incorrect.

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