What are we not being told?

[sunskyfan]

I have been watching American politics closely for nearly 35 years. I watched the Treasury secratary come out this morning on all three Networks and say the same thing though question no matter the question. I watched politicos from both parties swallow hard around their words. It appears the we have been given the "jest" of what is going on and they refer to a finaincial melt down. Something tells me there is a critical factor that has not been shared with us. What is it that we are not being told?

1. Is it Economic? Is there some critical connection that we has not been officially recognized?

2. Is it Geopolitical? Have ultimatums been given to the US goverment by other governments or groups?

3. Is it Cultural/Political? Have no idea what this could be.

http://www.newser.com/story/37921/be...into-pols.html

[we_are_toast]

Re: What are we not being told?

What you are not being told by the politicians and the media, but what you are being told here on itulip, is that it's over. The life the average American had at the beginning of the month is gone, the life they will have next year at this time could be very different. See EJ's posts;

days away

When Al Greenspan was recommending ARM's when the Fed Rate was about 2% my jaw dropped, when they repealed the banking safeguards from Great Depression 1, I almost cried, when the same people got reelected in 2004 I started to prepare. But EJ's post from yesterday switched me from knowing it was coming and praying that I was wrong, to the day has come and God(whichever) help us get through this.

It's a somber moment in our nations history and I can only hope we get through this with as little pain as possible. The ideas and discussions at iTulip will be certainly helpful as our course proceeds into the unknown.

[phirang]

Re: What are we not being told?

What you are not being told by the politicians and the media, but what you are being told here on itulip, is that it's over. The life the average American had at the beginning of the month is gone, the life they will have next year at this time could be very different. See EJ's posts;

days away

When Al Greenspan was recommending ARM's when the Fed Rate was about 2% my jaw dropped, when they repealed the banking safeguards from Great Depression 1, I almost cried, when the same people got reelected in 2004 I started to prepare. But EJ's post from yesterday switched me from knowing it was coming and praying that I was wrong, to the day has come and God(whichever) help us get through this.

It's a somber moment in our nations history and I can only hope we get through this with as little pain as possible. The ideas and discussions at iTulip will be certainly helpful as our course proceeds into the unknown.

o contraire!

[Supercilious]

Re: What are we not being told?

What you are not being told by the politicians and the media, but what you are being told here on itulip, is that it's over. The life the average American had at the beginning of the month is gone, the life they will have next year at this time could be very different. See EJ's posts;

days away

I'm not sure that assessment is entirely correct. I believe we "are told that it's over" exactly how we were told "Saddam has WMD". I believe it's an amazing show of smoke and mirrors.

IMHO we are witnessing now a "Panic of 1907"^10. The "Panic of 1907" was the result of a carefully orchestrated expansion of derivatives that culminated with the copper and other commodities bubble/cornering operation that created the risk of a complete meltdown. The terrifying specter brought by this artificially manufactured crisis created the conditions that allowed for the creation of the Federal Reserve System, which is the third private Central Bank experiment in the US.

Yes , I've said third, private Central Bank. The Fed is not a government public institution. It is the endowed steering committee of a consortium (club) of private banks.

The First Bank of the United States (1791-1811)

The Bank was bitterly opposed by several founding fathers, including Thomas Jefferson and James Madison, who saw it as an engine for speculation, financial manipulation, and corruption.

After a five-year interval, the federal government chartered its successor, the Second Bank of the United States (1816-1836). It was shut down by Andrew Jackson:
http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/pr...o/ajveto01.htm

A bank of the United States is in many respects convenient for the Government and useful to the people. Entertaining this opinion, and deeply impressed with the belief that some of the powers and privileges possessed by the existing bank are unauthorized by the Constitution, subversive of the rights of the States, and dangerous to the liberties of the people, I felt it my duty at an early period of my Administration to call the attention of Congress to the practicability of organizing an institution combining all its advantages and obviating these objections. I sincerely regret that in the act before me I can perceive none of those modifications of the bank charter which are necessary, in my opinion, to make it compatible with justice, with sound policy, or with the Constitution of our country.

The Third Bank of The United States- what we call today as the Fed was created as a result of the 1907 Panic:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Panic_of_1907

The Panic of 1907, also known as the 1907 Bankers' Panic, was a financial crisis in the United States. The stock market fell nearly 50% from its peak in 1906, the economy was in recession, and there were numerous runs on banks and trust companies. Its primary cause was a retraction of loans by some banks that began in New York City and soon spread across the nation, leading to the closings of banks and businesses.

Sounds familiar ? Read further:

Forbes magazine founder B. C. Forbes wrote several years later:

Picture a party of the nation’s greatest bankers stealing out of New York on a private railroad car under cover of darkness, stealthily riding hundreds of miles South, embarking on a mysterious launch, sneaking onto an island deserted by all but a few servants, living there a full week under such rigid secrecy that the names of not one of them was once mentioned, lest the servants learn the identity and disclose to the world this strangest, most secret expedition in the history of American finance. I am not romancing; I am giving to the world, for the first time, the real story of how the famous Aldrich currency report, the foundation of our new currency system, was written... The utmost secrecy was enjoined upon all. The public must not glean a hint of what was to be done. Senator Aldrich notified each one to go quietly into a private car of which the railroad had received orders to draw up on an unfrequented platform. Off the party set. New York’s ubiquitous reporters had been foiled... Nelson (Aldrich) had confided to Henry, Frank, Paul and Piatt that he was to keep them locked up at Jekyll Island, out of the rest of the world, until they had evolved and compiled a scientific currency system for the United States, the real birth of the present Federal Reserve System, the plan done on Jekyll Island in the conference with Paul, Frank and Henry... Warburg is the link that binds the Aldrich system and the present system together. He more than any one man has made the system possible as a working reality.^[51]

In 1912, the National Monetary Commission recommended the creation of a central bank. Congress passed the Federal Reserve Act in 1913, which mandated the creation of a central banking system to dampen the effects of future panics. The legislation was enacted on December 23, 1913, creating the Federal Reserve System.

Gee .. the Founding Fathers were a bunch of idiots and ignorants who had no idea what private central banks are about. Since the Third Central Bank (the Fed) was born, there were no panics nor crashes no bubbles ...

What we live through now is a problem-reaction-solution scenario which is implemented in order to create an overt or covert Global Reserve System.

Those who want to run around screaming in terror "It's the end of the world!!!" are free to do so. It's a free country.

But not for long, because the creation of such a Global Reserve System will transform the Free World of the Braves into the Fee World of the (debt) Slaves.

[Guest]

Re: What are we not being told?

But not for long, because the creation of such a Global Reserve System will transform the Free World of the Braves into the Fee World of the (debt) Slaves.

$#* - Sapiens has finally found his prodigal son in you, Your thesis is just exactly a template of Sapiens own concerns. I don't pretend to know if you guys are wrong (in part or in whole) or if you are right, but sure as the sun rises Sapiens has found a prodigal son in you. It was a long search, now he can be glad and reunited with his progeny!

Seriously, if you read through his stuff the exact same theme will emerge there. For me, it's a wacky thesis from the Moon, but WTFDIK.

[jtabeb]

Re: What are we not being told?

But not for long, because the creation of such a Global Reserve System will transform the Free World of the Braves into the Fee World of the (debt) Slaves.

Yeah, but how do we stop it? That's what everyone wants to know. People want to stop this (if they know about it), but they don't know what to do AND there is no organized movement against this that I'm aware of, save for RP '08, of course (most meaningful $200 I've donated in a long time)

[jtabeb]

Re: What are we not being told?

but WTFDIK.

You said it

[GRG55]

Re: What are we not being told?

$#* - Sapiens has finally found his prodigal son in you, Your thesis is just exactly a template of Sapiens own concerns. I don't pretend to know if you guys are wrong (in part or in whole) or if you are right, but sure as the sun rises Sapiens has found a prodigal son in you. It was a long search, now he can be glad and reunited with his progeny!

Seriously, if you read through his stuff the exact same theme will emerge there. For me, it's a wacky thesis from the Moon, but WTFDIK.

I was coming to the conclusion that they are alter egos in the same body, and $#* has no need to pay up for the subscriber's section since Sapiens is already in...;)

[ASH]

Re: What are we not being told?

I'm not sure that assessment is entirely correct. I believe we "are told that it's over" exactly how we were told "Saddam has WMD". I believe it's an amazing show of smoke and mirrors.

Hi $#*. Can you point me to a post in which you lay out the reasons why this is a phony crisis? Also, is it your position that this is a false crisis (no real danger of systemic failure), or an engineered crisis (real danger of systemic failure, but created for a purpose)?

Everything I think I understand about economics says that there is a real problem. The genesis of the problem appears to me to be regulatory changes in the 90's (relaxation of reserve fraction requirements plus some deregulation of the banking sector), followed by growth of the FIRE economy, plus the structural bias of the financial industry and government toward short-term outcomes, plus bad risk models, plus normal human cupidity. The problems which are claimed to exist -- mortgages which cannot be paid, defaults on same, write-downs on MBS hitting capitalization of banking institutions, etc. etc. also seem to be objectively real.

How is this smoke and mirrors? It seems to me that your perspective of what is real, vs. what is apparent, is quite a bit different from my own. I'd like to understand it better. As you can see, I drink the "mainstream iTulip koolaid" -- whatever that is -- and your view is a good deal different. I would benefit from a fresh perspective, but I'd like to see it explained in greater detail.

My gut feeling is that you have a world view about "how things work" which informs the interpretation that this has to be smoke and mirrors, rather than having reached a picture of the world based upon the observation that this is smoke and mirrors. However, that's mainly my bias against conspiracy-type theories talking. I don't want to dismiss your viewpoint unfairly, because -- as Lukester says -- WTFDIK. It ain't like I'm right much of the time.

[Supercilious]

Re: What are we not being told?

Thanks Luke and jtabeb for your comments.

By the way ... on a completely unrelated topic, just found this on Bloomberg:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...A&refer=europe

Sept. 21 (Bloomberg) -- Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson said he's confident several countries will take steps comparable to the $700 billion plan he proposed to buy bad mortgage-related securities to address the global financial crisis.
``We are talking very aggressively with other countries around the world and encouraging them to do similar things, and I believe a number of them will,'' Paulson said on ABC News' ``This Week'' program.
Paulson yesterday asked Congress for unfettered authority to buy devalued mortgage-related securities from investment firms in an effort to keep the financial system from coming to a standstill. The proposal would prevent courts from reviewing the Treasury's actions while raising the nation's debt ceiling.
German Finance Ministry spokesman Stefan Olbermann said members of the Group of Seven industrial nations are in ``ongoing talks about the situation on financial markets worldwide.'' Finance ministers from the G-7 countries meet in Washington on Oct. 10.

Problem-reaction-solution

[kingcopper]

Re: What are we not being told?

Hi $#*. Can you point me to a post in which you lay out the reasons why this is a phony crisis? Also, is it your position that this is a false crisis (no real danger of systemic failure), or an engineered crisis (real danger of systemic failure, but created for a purpose)?

Everything I think I understand about economics says that there is a real problem. The genesis of the problem appears to me to be regulatory changes in the 90's (relaxation of reserve fraction requirements plus some deregulation of the banking sector), followed by growth of the FIRE economy, plus the structural bias of the financial industry and government toward short-term outcomes, plus bad risk models, plus normal human cupidity. The problems which are claimed to exist -- mortgages which cannot be paid, defaults on same, write-downs on MBS hitting capitalization of banking institutions, etc. etc. also seem to be objectively real.

How is this smoke and mirrors? It seems to me that your perspective of what is real, vs. what is apparent, is quite a bit different from my own. I'd like to understand it better. As you can see, I drink the "mainstream iTulip koolaid" -- whatever that is -- and your view is a good deal different. I would benefit from a fresh perspective, but I'd like to see it explained in greater detail.

My gut feeling is that you have a world view about "how things work" which informs the interpretation that this has to be smoke and mirrors, rather than having reached a picture of the world based upon the observation that this is smoke and mirrors. However, that's mainly my bias against conspiracy-type theories talking. I don't want to dismiss your viewpoint unfairly, because -- as Lukester says -- WTFDIK. It ain't like I'm right much of the time.

I want to agree with ASH here and expand on his insights. From what I understand, the largest problem right now lies within the Money Markets and investor's money market accounts. What Paulson and Bernacke were warning the Senators about: how quickly a pretzel of risky investment's in vinyl siding were about to liquidate most of middle class America's money market accounts. That must of frightened a contingent of idiots who need votes in 6 frickin weeks!
The sad part is how important these politicians think they are. I can only imagine;"WE MUST GET RE-ELECTED FOR THE SAKE OF THE PEOPLE. GIVE THIS SCUMBAG, PAULSON, YOUR SIGNATURE AND HE'LL FIX THE NEXT COUPLE MONTHS. WE'LL SPEND A COUPLE TRILLION NEXT YEAR AND REFORM THE SYSTEM TOO!"

[marvenger]

Re: What are we not being told?

its all smoke and mirrors because the guys in power aren't dumb enough to just let this happen, it's completely obvious if you have any common sense. The media is completely involved in backing up their paymasters that this is an unforseen crisis and making sure their paymasters get more and more powerful and hence they will also. There is massive centralisation of power happening here and centralisation of power is always the solution in a 'crisis'. It's simple people. Its fiat currency, the system can't collapse but it can get to the stage of zimbabwe!

[kingcopper]

Re: What are we not being told?

Hope your right Marvenger as I would profit handsomely.

I don't believe anyone in Washington looks too far in advance. Planning is a matter of getting elected at the last minute these days. I'm starting to believe we'll see a glut of oil in 5 years and that would prove the lack of foresight on Washington's behalf. They're rich and lazy yah know. They love power and liquor and SEX.

[marvenger]

Re: What are we not being told?

yeah I think most of washington fits your description, most of the planning is done by bankers behing the scenes, those in washinton are the bankers play things with your paulson's and greeespan's adding legitimacy to the devastation.

Don't think you want me to be right, unless you can use all that gold to round up a posse of gunslingers to set up your own empire.

[jtabeb]

Re: What are we not being told?

Hi $#*. Can you point me to a post in which you lay out the reasons why this is a phony crisis? Also, is it your position that this is a false crisis (no real danger of systemic failure), or an engineered crisis (real danger of systemic failure, but created for a purpose)?

Everything I think I understand about economics says that there is a real problem. The genesis of the problem appears to me to be regulatory changes in the 90's (relaxation of reserve fraction requirements plus some deregulation of the banking sector), followed by growth of the FIRE economy, plus the structural bias of the financial industry and government toward short-term outcomes, plus bad risk models, plus normal human cupidity. The problems which are claimed to exist -- mortgages which cannot be paid, defaults on same, write-downs on MBS hitting capitalization of banking institutions, etc. etc. also seem to be objectively real.

.

I think all of us who lean this way are saying too many people are not questioning everything.

"an engineered crisis" puts it quite well

This is just like the gold/silver manipulation. Some say only fools believe in this type of intervention yet the anecdotal evidence is quite convincing, yet not proof positive. If it were we would have a fact vs. a belief.

In this case the belief is that the anecdotal evidence is convincing enough to entertain this (file it away, look for more proof, protect your position IN CASE it's a real threat). Not acting on something you think is fairly likely is not smart.

This is not an argument to PROVE it, we don't have the access to the information that that would require. But, it is enough for some of us to, at a minimum, think we smell "smoke". And you know where smoke leads...
It's either a FIRE or burnt toast. I would caution you not to assume it's "just" burnt toast.

Without putting me into the drooling, straight-jacket bound camp, does the above come across okay?