Fake gold/silver coins?

[friendly_jacek]

I came across this on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...2BSI%26otn%3D4

"THESE STUNNING PROOFS ARE EXACT SIZE JUST LIKE ORIGINAL!!!! 24 Karat Clad Over Copper!!!!"

What if someone buys these and sells to a dealer who resells to unsuspecting person? The seller has a lot of these or similar. Is there a way to check if the ones I purchased from AMPEX are legit?

[don]

Re: fake gold/silver coins

How can organized crime not be involved in a caper like counterfeit coins? Does anybody know?

[goldisliberty]

Re: fake gold/silver coins

I came across this on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...2BSI%26otn%3D4


"THESE STUNNING PROOFS ARE EXACT SIZE JUST LIKE ORIGINAL!!!! 24 Karat Clad Over Copper!!!!"

What if someone buys these and sells to a dealer who resells to unsuspecting person? The seller has a lot of these or similar. Is there a way to check if the ones I purchased from AMPEX are legit?

Hi, friendly_jacek,

Relax and take a very close look at the coin's "field" just below the stomach of the buffalo "device" or image on the coins' reverse:

As required by law, the incuse word "COPY," appears. Without such a permanent marking, the makers and sellers of such a "coin," would quickly receive a no-knock visit from Special Agents of the United States Secret Service assisted by Deputy U.S. Marshals. They have no sense of humor when counterfeiting occurs. And, uh, their issued service firearms include select-fire M4s...very convincing in close quarter battles.

The coins pictured are COPIES. You can buy as many copies as your heart desires at www.royaloakmint.com and you can read more about the Hobby Protection Act and the requirement of "COPY" markings.

Originally, collectors of numismatics who had the need for one very rare and expensive coin to fill a whole in their coin albums would buy one or two copies for aesthetic reasons...since nature and coin set collectors abhor a vacuum.

More recently, some folks like to look at a replica coin made with heavy base metals or gold-plated .999 silver which, if the actual original coin, would have a six- or seven-figure price point.

APMEX stands behind the real gold and silver bullion. But google FISCH detectors for gold to learn about authenticating...dimensions plus weight (mass) accurately measured will put one's mind at rest.

Good luck.

[friendly_jacek]

Re: fake gold/silver coins

Thanks, I didn't see the "COPY" on the coin. I'm such a noob in these things.

[grapejelly]

Re: fake gold/silver coins

well there *will* be fakes and are fakes at this point.

Gold is hard to fake. Pure gold is almost impossible to fake.

The key is specific gravity (SG). Gold and platinum are very dense. To fake pure gold you would need to use something like tungstun in the core. That is quite dense also. But hard to work with so you would need tungstun powder. There are ways to detect it through sound: that clinking noise, that bell ringing noise common to precious metals.

There is more likely to be fakes with silver bars. Or gold bars. Drill out the middle and substitute lead for silver. Hard to detect although the sound test will reveal it to the trained ear I am told. Interestingly, the old style poured silver bars are much harder to drill and cover up than the newer style mirror silver bars.

One argument for "junk" silver is that they are almost impossible to economically fake unless silver becomes worth hundreds per ounce in today's "dollars".

Also an argument for pure gold coins. Alloy coins esp. Kruggerrands are easier in theory to fake as they have a lower SG and therefore there is a greater range of subsitute material that counterfeiters could use (although gold is still quite hard to fake compared to silver.)

Interestingly, there are old cases of fake sovereigns...they used platinum cores and clad them with gold. I wouldn't mind finding one of those

To sum up: a calipers and an accurate scale can tell bogus coins from real ones today.

[c1ue]

Re: Fake gold/silver coins?

One argument for "junk" silver is that they are almost impossible to economically fake unless silver becomes worth hundreds per ounce in today's "dollars".

I'm not so sure - Japan is having severe problems with counterfeit 500 yen coins.

While the material of said coins is fairly cheap - they're copper and zinc with net weight of 7g - nonetheless I'd think there is significant energy and transportation costs associated with producing coins.

Not to mention 'using' them; how many vending machine beers and cigarettes can you really use?

[photoncounter]

Re: Fake gold/silver coins?

You can take the coins to a local jeweler and have them checked, no ?
I have been buying my physical gold and silver in India and that's how my folks verify if it is actually what they paid for. I am not sure how they check though.

[ocelotl]

Re: Fake gold/silver coins?

three months ago I was given a fake 10 MXN dated 1994 as change in a ministore, I detected it instantly and claimed a change, claiming the center was rotated. The clerk accepted it without hesitation.
How could be a fake coin be detected at fist sight?
I'm used to check every coin I receive, so I can detect things at first sight like chipped off dies or weak minting. On this particular case I saw:

- Center was rotated like 20 degrees from original (minting is done on complete coins, not individual pieces of a coin)
- Center was yellowish, even more than the alpaca cores of latter coins.
- There were signs of hits on the brass ring, suggesting the core was chipped off
- The minting of the core just didn't look right, it looked dull and crude compared with well circulated coins (I always carry a 1998 piece that has almost lost the date, the details in the eagle body and in the snake for comparison)

[huntercav]

Re: Fake gold/silver coins?

GoldisLiberty has it spot on with the Fisch Instruments. They are simple to use, plastic "scales" for lack of a better word. The company sells about 16 different size instruments. They come sized for most of the most widely seen types of gold coinage out there. You basically check a coin's circumference, width and finally weight with the little scale. The whole thing is like a tiny teeter totter or seesaw and fits in a wallet sized case.

If dealing in PMs is going to become a bigger part of your life over the coming years, I would suggest the initial outlay of $ is well worth it. Also to do it soon as the company is already very backlogged from what I've read elsewhere.

[grapejelly]

Re: Fake gold/silver coins?

it is really simple, get calipers and a good scale, spend less than $100 and you can tell real coins from fakes. Duhhhh.

Also avoid larger silver bars, those over 10oz, as a core holding.

Solid gold coins are almost impossible to forge. And even 22ct gold coins are very hard to fake if you weigh them and measure them with a calipers.

[j4f2h0]

Re: Fake gold/silver coins?

it is really simple, get calipers and a good scale, spend less than $100 and you can tell real coins from fakes. Duhhhh.

Also avoid larger silver bars, those over 10oz, as a core holding.

Solid gold coins are almost impossible to forge. And even 22ct gold coins are very hard to fake if you weigh them and measure them with a calipers.

At some point 100oz bars of silver are needed due to the cumbersome aspect of storing silver! If u suspect u cant trust who u are buying from, then dont buy and find someone u trust, never give anyone the benefit of the doubt when dealing with business and money. U will get screwed, no doubt!