If this goes on, America will look like a developing country in a generation.

[GRG55]

Re: If this goes on, America will look like a developing country in a generation.

Exactly. And, we begin to shift city planning by punishing those cities that have made a living with THE SUBURB. Suburban growth in cities such as ATL is the scourge of our economic heart.
We must perform a bypass soon. I'm not in favor of ditching asphalt between smaller towns, I'm in favor of massive rail systems between and along our coasts.

"Punish" cities with suburbs. Interesting language.

Did it ever occur that the "small town" penturbia you wish to continue to support with "asphalt" are the logical extension of the same mindset that created the post-WWII suburb?

[Wild Style]

Re: If this goes on, America will look like a developing country in a generation.

"Punish" cities with suburbs. Interesting language.

Did it ever occur that the "small town" penturbia you wish to continue to support with "asphalt" are the logical extension of the same mindset that created the post-WWII suburb?

Interesting, please explain what you mean.

[GRG55]

Re: If this goes on, America will look like a developing country in a generation.

Interesting, please explain what you mean.

You'll have to ask Kingcopper about the "punishment" item.

"Penturbia" is the name of a 1991 book by Jack Lessinger. He describes a model of settlement of the USA (using census data) as having occurred over "4 migrations", the fourth being the migration to the suburbs. His forecast, at the time, was for a continued escape from inflating housing costs in the major cities in a "fifth wave" to small towns [like Boise], hence the name "penturbia".

You can draw your own conclusions as to how his predictions have worked out. But I caution anyone from doing so from the comfort of an inner city loft conversion or high rise condo. Get out to Boise, or the towns like it, and have a look first.

[FRED]

Re: If this goes on, America will look like a developing country in a generation.

EJ writes in:

Several private equity firms I've talked to are chomping at the bit waiting for the political mandate to build high speed rail in the US. The problem is political and philosophical, focused on private property rights.

High speed rail means straight track. Straight track means either taking existing private property by eminent domain or tunneling.

My conclusion is that we're going to tunnel under high population density areas where it's cheaper than eminent domain, both politically and directly, but some suburbs will see major restructuring. By the time it happens, the RRE market may be so distressed for so long that having the state buy your property may be a good option for a lot of "home owners."

That said, I've talked to several optimistic real estate developers who are already planning bulk foreclosed RRE purchases based on bets on where the new high speed rail is going to go. Repeat of the 1890s railway bubble?

[bill]

Re: If this goes on, America will look like a developing country in a generation.

EJ writes in:

Several private equity firms I've talked to are chomping at the bit waiting for the political mandate to build high speed rail in the US. The problem is political and philosophical, focused on private property rights.

High speed rail means straight track. Straight track means either taking existing private property by eminent domain or tunneling.

My conclusion is that we're going to tunnel under high population density areas where it's cheaper than eminent domain, both politically and directly, but some suburbs will see major restructuring. By the time it happens, the RRE market may be so distressed for so long that having the state buy your property may be a good option for a lot of "home owners."

That said, I've talked to several optimistic real estate developers who are already planning bulk foreclosed RRE purchases based on bets on where the new high speed rail is going to go. Repeat of the 1890s railway bubble?

On the right track!
http://www.itulip.com/forums/showthr...38320#poststop
http://www.itulip.com/forums/showthr...37017#poststop

If not underground use http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_carrier when necessary.
How about take the wings off these http://www.boeing.com/commercial/and set them on a track.
Nice location for Boeings headquarters, they can take the train its right under their feet.

[Wild Style]

Re: If this goes on, America will look like a developing country in a generation.

EJ writes in:

Several private equity firms I've talked to are chomping at the bit waiting for the political mandate to build high speed rail in the US. The problem is political and philosophical, focused on private property rights.

High speed rail means straight track. Straight track means either taking existing private property by eminent domain or tunneling.

My conclusion is that we're going to tunnel under high population density areas where it's cheaper than eminent domain, both politically and directly, but some suburbs will see major restructuring. By the time it happens, the RRE market may be so distressed for so long that having the state buy your property may be a good option for a lot of "home owners."

That said, I've talked to several optimistic real estate developers who are already planning bulk foreclosed RRE purchases based on bets on where the new high speed rail is going to go. Repeat of the 1890s railway bubble?

excuse my ignorance but what is RRE?

GRG55

Thank you sir

[FRED]

Re: If this goes on, America will look like a developing country in a generation.

excuse my ignorance but what is RRE?

Sorry, taking a short cut. RRE = Residential Real Estate.

[Wild Style]

Re: If this goes on, America will look like a developing country in a generation.

Sorry, taking a short cut. RRE = Residential Real Estate.

ah ok, thank you!

[kingcopper]

Re: If this goes on, America will look like a developing country in a generation.

You'll have to ask Kingcopper about the "punishment" item.

"Penturbia" is the name of a 1991 book by Jack Lessinger. He describes a model of settlement of the USA (using census data) as having occurred over "4 migrations", the fourth being the migration to the suburbs. His forecast, at the time, was for a continued escape from inflating housing costs in the major cities in a "fifth wave" to small towns [like Boise], hence the name "penturbia".

You can draw your own conclusions as to how his predictions have worked out. But I caution anyone from doing so from the comfort of an inner city loft conversion or high rise condo. Get out to Boise, or the towns like it, and have a look first.

I retract the word punish. Instead I'll insert the word ignore. We cannot continue to live in a world where people buy homes 100 miles away from their day job in a city with no density. European development is much better. Cities are meant to be built up and dense like Miami or SF or NYC, not ATL or Charlotte or smaller cities like Nashville. People actually drive 100 miles each way for an hourly job in ATL making less than $15 hour!
As for development in our country after WWII, the exurbs from the 1940's and 1950's were very dense. It was the golf course lot McMansion developments of the 1970's and 1980's that I was blasting.

[c1ue]

Re: If this goes on, America will look like a developing country in a generation.

San Francisco city proper and New York - Manhattan are very dense, but as metropolitan areas they do not compare well with the rest of the world.

From: http://www.demographia.com/db-econ-uaintl.htm

Rank
Urban Area
10 Year Metropolitan Growth Rate (1990s)
Core Urban Area: Population per Square Mile
Rank
Core Urban Area: Population (Millions)
Core Urban Area: Square Miles
26
Atlanta
37.10%
1,783
29
3.5
1,963
18
Boston
6.90%
2,322
28
4
1,736
11
Philadelphia
4.70%
2,861
27
5.1
1,799
16
Dallas-Fort Worth
29.20%
2,947
26
4.1
1,407
22
Houston
24.90%
2,951
25
3.8
1,295
21
Detroit
5.10%
3,094
24
3.9
1,261
20
Washington-Baltimore
13.10%
3,401
23
3.9
1,157
8
Chicago
11.10%
3,914
22
8.3
2,123
28
Melbourne
9.50%
3,938
21
3.2
803
13
Miami
23.50%
4,407
20
4.9
1,116
27
Montreal
9.60%
4,793
19
3.2
671
2
New York
8.40%
5,309
18
17.8
3,353
25
Sydney
11.70%
5,379
17
3.5
651
29
San Francisco-San Jose
12.80%
6,127
16
3
428
15
Milan
1.30%
6,237
15
4.3
600
14
Toronto
20.30%
6,845
14
4.4
638
4
Los Angeles
12.70%
7,068
13
11.8
1,668
9
Essen-Dusseldorf
-3.00%
7,206
12
7.4
1,020
6
Nagoya
5.30%
8,108
11
9
1,110
5
Paris
2.70%
9,181
10
9.6
1,051
24
Berlin
3.30%
9,671
9
3.7
380
1
Tokyo-Yokohama
5.10%
12,296
8
33.2
2,700
19
Barcelona
3.00%
12,581
7
3.9
310
7
London
6.10%
13,210
6
8.3
627
12
Madrid
9.60%
13,425
5
4.9
365
23
Athens
6.80%
13,958
4
3.7
264
3
Osaka-Kobe-Kyoto
1.50%
16,591
3
16.4
990
17
Singapore
31.80%
21,622
2
4
185
10
Hong Kong
18.20%
76,176
1
6.1
53

[Wild Style]

Re: If this goes on, America will look like a developing country in a generation.

I retract the word punish. Instead I'll insert the word ignore. We cannot continue to live in a world where people buy homes 100 miles away from their day job in a city with no density. European development is much better. Cities are meant to be built up and dense like Boston or SF or NYC, not ATL or Charlotte or smaller cities like Nashville. People actually drive 100 miles each way for an hourly job in ATL making less than $15 hour!
As for development in our country after WWII, the exurbs from the 1940's and 1950's were very dense. It was the golf course lot McMansion developments of the 1970's and 1980's that I was blasting.

I fixed that for you. I live in S. Florida. Miami is FAR from dense. That is urban sprawl for reals.

[touchring]

Re: If this goes on, America will look like a developing country in a generation.

Asian cities are moving towards policies that discourage car ownership or control car population.

"Shanghai rakes in US$504m in car license auctions"

https://www.thechinaperspective.com/...654/index.html

[pwcmba]

Re: If this goes on, America will look like a developing country in a generation.

http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/440/video.html

Interesting PBS video about high speed trains in CA and the housing crises.

[pwcmba]

Re: If this goes on, America will look like a developing country in a generation.

Prop 1A passes!

99.5% ( 25,318 of 25,423 ) precincts partially
or fully reporting as of Nov. 5, 2008, at 3:34 p.m.
State Ballot Measures


A - Safe, Reliable High-Speed Train Bond Act
YES: 5,053,442 52.2%
NO: 4,641,088 47.8%

http://vote.sos.ca.gov/props/index.html

Looks like high speed passenger train travel WILL become part of the USA experience, at least in a decade or two.

http://www.cahighspeedrail.ca.gov/

[pwcmba]

Re: Prop 1A passes!

99.5% ( 25,318 of 25,423 ) precincts partially
or fully reporting as of Nov. 5, 2008, at 3:34 p.m.
State Ballot Measures


A - Safe, Reliable High-Speed Train Bond Act
YES: 5,053,442 52.2%
NO: 4,641,088 47.8%

http://vote.sos.ca.gov/props/index.html

Looks like high speed passenger train travel WILL become part of the USA experience, at least in a decade or two.

http://www.cahighspeedrail.ca.gov/