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  • BBC: US bank 'to fail within months'

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7569903.stm

    Page last updated at 09:46 GMT, Tuesday, 19 August 2008 10:46 UK


    US bank 'to fail within months'

    The global financial crisis is set to get worse, with a large US bank likely to collapse in the next few months, a former IMF chief economist has warned.

    Kenneth Rogoff's comments came as shares in Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac sank on a report that the home lenders would, in effect, be nationalised.

    Despite hopes that the US economy had turned the corner, Mr Rogoff claimed it was "not out of the woods".

    "I would even go further to say 'the worst is to come'," he said.

    "We're not just going to see mid-sized banks go under in the next few months," said Mr Rogoff, who held the IMF role between 2001 and 2004.



    A "whopper" bank is going to "go under", Mr Rogoff said
    The global financial crisis is set to get worse, with a large US bank likely to collapse in the next few months, a former IMF chief economist has warned.

    Kenneth Rogoff's comments came as shares in Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac sank on a report that the home lenders would, in effect, be nationalised.

    Despite hopes that the US economy had turned the corner, Mr Rogoff claimed it was "not out of the woods".

    "I would even go further to say 'the worst is to come'," he said.

    "We're not just going to see mid-sized banks go under in the next few months," said Mr Rogoff, who held the IMF role between 2001 and 2004.

    "We're going to see a whopper, we're going to see a big one, one of the big investment banks or big banks."

    We have to see more consolidation in the financial sector before this is over

    Kenneth Rogoff

    Speaking at a conference in Singapore, Mr Rogoff, now an economics professor at Harvard, forecast that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac would "probably" not exist in their present form in a few years.

    "We have to see more consolidation in the financial sector before this is over."

    On Monday, shares of Fannie Mae fell more than 22%, or $1.76, to close at $6.15. Shares of Freddie Mac fell almost 25%, or $1.46, to $4.39.

    'Wrong move'

    Shares in Freddie and Fannie first fell sharply last month on fears that they would run out of money to fund their business, forcing the US government to take radical steps to ease the panic.

    The two firms are the backbone of the US mortgage market as almost all US lenders rely on them to buy their mortgages in order to access the funds to lend to consumers.

    As mortgage guarantors, they must pay out when homeowners default on their loans.

    With the housing market across the US crumbling, their finances have come under severe stress.

    Problems in the US housing sector prompted the Federal Reserve to slash interest rates to 2% earlier this year.

    But Mr Rogoff said the Fed was wrong to cut interest rates as "dramatically" as it did.

    "Cutting interest rates is going to lead to a lot of inflation in the next few years in the United States," he added.

  • #2
    Re: BBC: US bank 'to fail within months'

    Cramer: "The bear market has ended with a bang,"

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: BBC: US bank 'to fail within months'

      Originally posted by touchring View Post
      Cramer: "The bear market has ended with a bang,"

      This bear will end with dull thuds as the bodies of traders and investors beside themselves hit the hudson river...

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: BBC: US bank 'to fail within months'

        "A" US Bank?
        THey mean ALL US banks!
        Mike

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: BBC: US bank 'to fail within months'

          Al-Arian from PIMCO was on CNBC this morning and he disagrees with Rogoff. His response was familiar. There will be mergers and acquisitions and some of the regional banks will fail.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: BBC: US bank 'to fail within months'

            Originally posted by phirang View Post
            This bear will end with dull thuds as the bodies of traders and investors beside themselves hit the hudson river...


            Ah, the '87 style capitulation, so sharp many just can't just take it.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: BBC: US bank 'to fail within months'

              Originally posted by babbittd View Post
              Al-Arian from PIMCO was on CNBC this morning and he disagrees with Rogoff. His response was familiar. There will be mergers and acquisitions and some of the regional banks will fail.
              Same thing.

              Take Citi as a [hypothetical] example. It continues to take write downs, accelerates the sale of the valuable parts of its businesses to raise desperately needed capital [because the SWFs and other sources have had enough of their losses], systematically shrinks or closes the weakest parts of its businesses and then, when these strategies are no longer viable, what is left of Citi gets "merged" or "acquired" by somebody that still has a balance sheet in the black. Poof it's gone

              And voila, El Arian and Rogoff are both correct...

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: BBC: US bank 'to fail within months'

                Originally posted by GRG55 View Post
                Same thing.

                Take Citi as a [hypothetical] example. It continues to take write downs, accelerates the sale of the valuable parts of its businesses to raise desperately needed capital [because the SWFs and other sources have had enough of their losses], systematically shrinks or closes the weakest parts of its businesses and then, when these strategies are no longer viable, what is left of Citi gets "merged" or "acquired" by somebody that still has a balance sheet in the black. Poof it's gone

                And voila, El Arian and Rogoff are both correct...
                that'll be true of all but those banks that are counterparties to too many cds that are gonna blow up. who is going to touch them? how does the fed take that risk off their hands?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: BBC: US bank 'to fail within months'

                  Originally posted by metalman View Post
                  that'll be true of all but those banks that are counterparties to too many cds that are gonna blow up. who is going to touch them? how does the fed take that risk off their hands?
                  cds meaning credit derivatives? does it includes stock derivatives?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: BBC: US bank 'to fail within months'

                    Originally posted by touchring View Post
                    cds meaning credit derivatives? does it includes stock derivatives?
                    credit default swaps. doubled again to $60 trillion over the past year. that's 6000 guys betting $10B each that 10 out of a bag of 100 turnips won't get sold before they rot. the counterparties are betting only one or two will rot. what happens if 50 of 'en rot? someone is out $30 trillion. there ain't $30 trillion.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: BBC: US bank 'to fail within months'

                      Originally posted by metalman View Post
                      credit default swaps. doubled again to $60 trillion over the past year. that's 6000 guys betting $10B each that 10 out of a bag of 100 turnips won't get sold before they rot. the counterparties are betting only one or two will rot. what happens if 50 of 'en rot? someone is out $30 trillion. there ain't $30 trillion.
                      Metalman, this is the exact reason we lay waiting; all the while Paulson and Bernacke use this situation to destroy the USA and bankroll their buddies:rolleyes:. It's exactly why I'd like to see what would happen to you and me if some 10-20 trillion of CDS's are made to have to unwind! I've got to believe the end result would be very similar to my expression after Capone's vault was opened on national tv! zzzz

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: BBC: US bank 'to fail within months'

                        Originally posted by metalman View Post
                        credit default swaps. doubled again to $60 trillion over the past year. that's 6000 guys betting $10B each that 10 out of a bag of 100 turnips won't get sold before they rot. the counterparties are betting only one or two will rot. what happens if 50 of 'en rot? someone is out $30 trillion. there ain't $30 trillion.
                        cds' are basically default insurance policies (contigent bonds, if you would, since cds' do pay a coupon), and so the nominal value isn't relevant unless there is a default.

                        In the cases where there isn't a default, then the nominal value isn't that important: what's important is discount to par, which is a function of the credit risk of the insured.

                        cds' let banks move a lot faster, which is why they were created... yelp!

                        Comment

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