Russia: Poland risks attack because of US missiles

[c1ue]

Re: Russia: Poland risks attack because of US missiles

However, that assumes direct R&D spending is a politically viable alternative. The way I see it, unless you posit a fundamental restructing of our system of government, your choices are between mushu pork, pork tenderloin, and Hawaiian pineapple pork -- not between pork and no pork.

Let's see: Obama = Hawaiian pineapple pork.

McCain must be a twice-cooked pork.

Pork tenderloin = Bush

Mushu pork - just a tasty dish.

[blazespinnaker]

Re: Russia: Poland risks attack because of US missiles

A pretty bizarre turn of events, that's for sure.

My tin foil is telling me Georgia (or someone related to georgia) provoked this on purpose because either

a) they didn't think Obama would come to their aid and needed to get this in
b) they're were told by someone close to McCain (who has ties to Georgia through his staff) that this would be a Good Idea, people won't ellect Obama in a time if military strife, and that a McCain government (very anti-russia) would be good for Georgia.

As a reply, I think a distinct possibility is that Obama could pick Clark as his VP, and have Clark come out swinging against the Russians. That may also appease the Clinton's who have been big Clark supporters.

I understand the Bush regime fully on what they are doing, this is there way to support a McCain presidency (notice how quiet Bush is being), and besides, they were painted in a corner to begin with.

Truly, everyone is playing their role here, to a T.. except for the freaking Russians.

What the hell do the Russians think they're going to get out all of this!?!? War? How could that possibly be good for them? We just had an election in Russia, so it's not politicking. I guess they think they can somehow gain control over Georgia. I think they're hellish mistaken, and they are just paving the way for McCain, who is very anti-them, to get ellected here.

[c1ue]

Re: Russia: Poland risks attack because of US missiles

Stratfor talks about what Russia gets out of it, and seems quite reasonable:

1) So long as the US is militarily tied up in Iraq and Afghanistan, the US' ability to project additional force is zero
2) Russia has a nice window in which to reverse the recent decade or so of relaxation in Russia's tradition role in Eastern Europe.
3) Saakashvili almost certainly felt between jawboning from US officials/politicians, plus his $200M Israeli arms improvement, plus the US advisors, and his recent success in Ajara, that this might be a good time to try and retake the breakaway areas.
4) Russia gets the provocation they have been itching for post-Kosovo, to show that they aren't pushovers any more. That both Europe via its energy dependence and the US via its prior engagements are all hat and no cattle.

[Rajiv]

Re: Russia: Poland risks attack because of US missiles

From Full Spectrum Dominance or "Real Men go to Moscow"

Now here is a brilliant analysis that cuts through all the propaganda about Russia and Georgia. Check it out

[Supercilious]

Re: Russia: Poland risks attack because of US missiles

From Full Spectrum Dominance or "Real Men go to Moscow"

Now here is a brilliant analysis that cuts through all the propaganda about Russia and Georgia. Check it out

Yup, he is absolutely right except one minor detail and one not so minor omission. The important omission is the game in Ukraine, the minor detail is the railway build by the russian troops between Abkhasia and Russia which marked the point of no return.

I guess we will see a remake of the Bosnia scenario including a problem-reaction-solution chain of events.

[tombat1913]

Re: Russia: Poland risks attack because of US missiles

In fact, long-term, we have one and only one budgetary problem, and it is called Medicare. From a budget perspective, the present wars and even Social Security pale in comparison.

Well then, you'll definitely want to sign this petition.:p

[VIT]

Re: Russia: Poland risks attack because of US missiles

It is interesting to read Poland foreign policy just before the WWII.

They cooperated with Nazis and even did some concentration camps on their territory to push some dissidents on area they conquered from USSR before. Then in 1938 after Munich agreement they participated in dividing of Czechoslovakia by adding Zaolzie (Tishinskay) area. France and USSR supported Czechoslovakia but Poland refused to allow USSR troops to get into and prevent Nazis occupation of this country. At the same time Poland had the territory (Danzig corridor) which was in dispute with Germans.

American journalist William Shirer said the Polish policy was suicidal since they demanded what they could not support. They had a border which was not suitable to Nazis and USSR. But at the same time they were supporting Nazis and confronting USSR. Probably they wanted to preserve areas of former Russian Empire.

Somebody could argue that there would be soviet occupation after USSR defended the Czechoslovakia, but they had to decide what would be the best for them in a long run instead of trying to play some fantasy games.

At the end Polish nation was hardly pressured in WW2 and lost a lot of people.

It seems something similar happening today. I do not see
how the US Patriot missiles,shield, confronting with Russia would be good for Poland in a long run.

*Is this a case when the interests of the government prevails the country / nation interests.

[c1ue]

Re: Russia: Poland risks attack because of US missiles

VIT,

The Poles definitely aren't saints, but honestly I can't say that it is so surprising that they would want to be under the US umbrella.

After all, the US is far away and historically has not been a rival like Germany and Russia.

It will take many decades before the toxic effects of being a partner to the US will be recognized: FIRE-ization of the economy and subjugation to American economic aims.

That process is ongoing as we speak in the Baltics and much of Eastern Europe.

Mexico is a fine example of what can happen.

[phirang]

Re: Russia: Poland risks attack because of US missiles

Notice how China isn't backing Russia, right AFTER they get awarded a huge contract in Iraq...

Is this a coincidence?

[World Traveler]

Re: Russia: Poland risks attack because of US missiles

Had an interesting conversation tonight with a woman born in Romania who came to U.S. in 1991 and is now an American citizen. Conversation turned to politics and it turns out is she is very much in favor of a strong U.S. presence in Eastern Europe. Her family were landowners before Russian takeover after WW2, they subsequently lost their land, and spent 5 years behind barbed wire in a re-education type camp.

I didn't agree with her, and explained that I didn't think the U.S. had the financial ability to continue policing the world.

No way would she consider that perspective.

It seemed clear her reaction was driven by fear of what might happen (i.e. Russians marching in again), if U.S. did not maintain military deterrant in eastern Europe.

I still don't agree with her, but our conversation did provide a clearer view to me of how Eastern Europeans think and feel.

[phirang]

Re: Russia: Poland risks attack because of US missiles

Had an interesting conversation tonight with a woman born in Romania who came to U.S. in 1991 and is now an American citizen. Conversation turned to politics and it turns out is she is very much in favor of a strong U.S. presence in Eastern Europe. Her family were landowners before Russian takeover after WW2, they subsequently lost their land, and spent 5 years behind barbed wire in a re-education type camp.

I didn't agree with her, and explained that I didn't think the U.S. had the financial ability to continue policing the world.

No way would she consider that perspective.

It seemed clear her reaction was driven by fear of what might happen (i.e. Russians marching in again), if U.S. did not maintain military deterrant in eastern Europe.

I still don't agree with her, but our conversation did provide a clearer view to me of how Eastern Europeans think and feel.

Everyone loves free protection. I think Bismarck said something apropos about the Balkans and his Grenadiers, and it also applies to the former FSU.

Let's get back to Manifest Destiny and mercantilism in Africa and Asia. The rest is for the birds.

[metalman]

Re: Russia: Poland risks attack because of US missiles

Everyone loves free protection. I think Bismarck said something apropos about the Balkans and his Grenadiers, and it also applies to the former FSU.

Let's get back to Manifest Destiny and mercantilism in Africa and Asia. The rest is for the birds.

manifest destiny... what an clever piece of marketing for rape and pillage for gain. hard to pull that off today.

[c1ue]

Re: Russia: Poland risks attack because of US missiles

Had an interesting conversation tonight with a woman born in Romania who came to U.S. in 1991 and is now an American citizen. Conversation turned to politics and it turns out is she is very much in favor of a strong U.S. presence in Eastern Europe. Her family were landowners before Russian takeover after WW2, they subsequently lost their land, and spent 5 years behind barbed wire in a re-education type camp.

Amazing what allying with a losing cause in WW II, then getting taken over by the angry winning side, will do to you.

http://everything2.com/title/Romania...2520War%2520II

Of course, besides WWII, the Russians were pissed by the WWI redrawing of borders. And so the worm turns.

[phirang]

Re: Russia: Poland risks attack because of US missiles

manifest destiny... what an clever piece of marketing for rape and pillage for gain. hard to pull that off today.

Do it a la Chinoise: sell them chotchkis in exchange for natural resources.

No need to topple gov's etc.

[BlackVoid]

Re: Russia: Poland risks attack because of US missiles

"What the hell do the Russians think they're going to get out all of this!?!?"

1. Control of all oil and gas pipelines in the area of the FSU.
2. They prove that there is no secure energy supply to Europe without a friendly Russia.
3. They prove to all European countries that following Washington's agenda is very dangerous.
4. Ultimately the Russian goal is to dissolve NATO and push the Americans out of Eurasia.