Starbucks:- Wake up & smell the Coffee!

[Mega]

EJ was Right, seems given a choice of a gallon of Gas or a cup of massively over priced hot brown sugar vested sulge...people are waking up!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2...cks.fooddrinks
Mike

[metalman]

Re: Starbucks:- Wake up & smell the Coffee!

EJ was Right, seems given a choice of a gallon of Gas or a cup of massively over priced hot brown sugar vested sulge...people are waking up!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2...cks.fooddrinks
Mike

'so goes starbucks, so goes the shitball fire economy'

for what's left of the p/c economy this chart still bugs me...



doesn't that say 'industrial economy collapse'? i mean, look at the friggin rate? nothing even close going back to 1990...

[dbarberic]

Re: Starbucks:- Wake up & smell the Coffee!

My friend is a store manger of a Starbucks in the NE Ohio area and he found out that his store is one of the ones selected to be closed.

I find the number of unemployement hard to belive. I live in NE Ohio and I'm trying to get multiple bids on some landscaping work. I thought with the housing/employement crunch that it would be easy pickens to negotate a deep discount. No such luck. The landscapers sure don't seem to be hurting yet.

[Mega]

Re: Starbucks:- Wake up & smell the Coffee!

Let the Weeds grow a bit more my friend!........."Help" is on the way!
Mike

[FRED]

Re: Starbucks:- Wake up & smell the Coffee!

My friend is a store manger of a Starbucks in the NE Ohio area and he found out that his store is one of the ones selected to be closed.

I find the number of unemployement hard to belive. I live in NE Ohio and I'm trying to get multiple bids on some landscaping work. I thought with the housing/employement crunch that it would be easy pickens to negotate a deep discount. No such luck. The landscapers sure don't seem to be hurting yet.

An inflationary recession is new to most people in the US who are younger than 50.

You landscapers can't afford to give you a steep discount. This is one of the areas where we parted company with the deflationstas years ago: an inflation puts a floor on service prices even during recession. The guy you are negotiating with knows his labor, gasoline, and other costs are and is not going to do the job at a loss. You will find that over time there are far fewer landscapers in business. Eventually you will wind up with a small number of expensive landscapers.

Welcome to stagflation.

[dbarberic]

Re: Starbucks:- Wake up & smell the Coffee!

An inflationary recession is new to most people in the US who are younger than 50.

You landscapers can't afford to give you a steep discount. This is one of the areas where we parted company with the deflationstas years ago: an inflation puts a floor on service prices even during recession. The guy you are negotiating with knows his labor, gasoline, and other costs are and is not going to do the job at a loss. You will find that over time there are far fewer landscapers in business. Eventually you will wind up with a small number of expensive landscapers.

Welcome to stagflation.

Interesting to see theory in practice.

Thxs.

[Jim Nickerson]

Re: Starbucks:- Wake up & smell the Coffee!

My friend is a store manger of a Starbucks in the NE Ohio area and he found out that his store is one of the ones selected to be closed.

I find the number of unemployement hard to belive. I live in NE Ohio and I'm trying to get multiple bids on some landscaping work. I thought with the housing/employement crunch that it would be easy pickens to negotate a deep discount. No such luck. The landscapers sure don't seem to be hurting yet.

dbarberic,

I have been retired for some years, thus having time to use as I have rather much chosen. I can tell you that an individual can save a lot of money doing things oneself. When I worked, I had more money than time it seemed, and at those times I didn't know jack-shit about doing a lot of stuff around the house. If times are hard, for landscapers, and perhaps for you too, and yet you can allocate funds for yard stuff, consider doing it yourself at whatever rate your time allows.

I do a lot of stuff that I would challenge most "for hire" workers to accomplish with the same quality as my finished project, BUT the way I do things were I attempting to make a living doing these things, I would have gone broke a long time ago because I do things so slowly.

One example, I put in a jacuzzi-like tub 8-9 years ago and did the electrical, plumbing, framing, tiling for ~1200$ including the tub.
A contractor that had done remodeling for me several years before wanted 5-6000$. He would have done it in a few days, whereas it took me no telling how long-probably 3-4 weeks at the rate I chose to work, but no big deal for me.

[GRG55]

Re: Starbucks:- Wake up & smell the Coffee!

dbarberic,

I have been retired for some years, thus having time to use as I have rather much chosen. I can tell you that an individual can save a lot of money doing things oneself. When I worked, I had more money than time it seemed, and at those times I didn't know jack-shit about doing a lot of stuff around the house. If times are hard, for landscapers, and perhaps for you too, and yet you can allocate funds for yard stuff, consider doing it yourself at whatever rate your time allows.

I do a lot of stuff that I would challenge most "for hire" workers to accomplish with the same quality as my finished project, BUT the way I do things were I attempting to make a living doing these things, I would have gone broke a long time ago because I do things so slowly.

One example, I put in a jacuzzi-like tub 8-9 years ago and did the electrical, plumbing, framing, tiling for ~1200$ including the tub.
A contractor that had done remodeling for me several years before wanted 5-6000$. He would have done it in a few days, whereas it took me no telling how long-probably 3-4 weeks at the rate I chose to work, but no big deal for me.

I am about to apply the exact same philosophy to the construction of a cottage in the Rocky Mtn foothills. Taking a year off while the FIRE economy implodes to build it myself. Will hire certain trades (like excavation) but at a time when any fool with a pair of wire cutters can call himself an electrician, I can frame, wire, plumb, etc. far better and far cheaper than most of the so-called trained trades judging by the work I've seen around here [note: this is not my first experience building homes].

Of course "cheaper" does not include any opportunity cost for my own time, but the offset to that is the therapeautic value of working with one's hands and being able to actually see the progress at the end of each day [a 180 degree shift from what I've been doing for years]. But just like Jim, I am so fussy and therefore so slow, I could never actually make a real living doing this.

Finally, my experience is the same as expressed earlier in this thread. Steel reinforcing rod costs went up 30% two weeks ago, other building material costs continue to excalate, many are truly horrific rates of increase. Lumber is the conspicuous exception, having collapsed in the last 18 months, but even there the massive number of mill closures and bankrupcies are finally having an effect and the price of dimension lumber and panel products is now starting to creep up again.

[zoog]

Re: Starbucks:- Wake up & smell the Coffee!

I am about to apply the exact same philosophy to the construction of a cottage in the Rocky Mtn foothills. Taking a year off while the FIRE economy implodes to build it myself. Will hire certain trades (like excavation) but at a time when any fool with a pair of wire cutters can call himself an electrician, I can frame, wire, plumb, etc. far better and far cheaper than most of the so-called trained trades judging by the work I've seen around here [note: this is not my first experience building homes].

Of course "cheaper" does not include any opportunity cost for my own time, but the offset to that is the therapeautic value of working with one's hands and being able to actually see the progress at the end of each day [a 180 degree shift from what I've been doing for years]. But just like Jim, I am so fussy and therefore so slow, I could never actually make a real living doing this.

Finally, my experience is the same as expressed earlier in this thread. Steel reinforcing rod costs went up 30% two weeks ago, other building material costs continue to excalate, many are truly horrific rates of increase. Lumber is the conspicuous exception, having collapsed in the last 18 months, but even there the massive number of mill closures and bankrupcies are finally having an effect and the price of dimension lumber and panel products is now starting to creep up again.

I would love to do this some day.

In my brief home "owner"ship, I tried to do as much work myself as possible, for pretty much all the reasons you guys cite: saves money, better quality work, and --for the most part-- I enjoyed it.

I believe Metalman, amongst others, has expressed gratitude for the division of labor we have in the modern world. But when times are tough, I think that can come back to bite you. It is good to have at least a basic level of skill doing things and fixing things that normally you would pay others to take care of.

...like brewing your own coffee.;)

[metalman]

Re: Starbucks:- Wake up & smell the Coffee!

I would love to do this some day.

In my brief home "owner"ship, I tried to do as much work myself as possible, for pretty much all the reasons you guys cite: saves money, better quality work, and --for the most part-- I enjoyed it.

I believe Metalman, amongst others, has expressed gratitude for the division of labor we have in the modern world. But when times are tough, I think that can come back to bite you. It is good to have at least a basic level of skill doing things and fixing things that normally you would pay others to take care of.

...like brewing your own coffee.;)

brother, i'm all for swinging a hammer and scratching the ground with a rake but i'm less enthused about growing my own corn flakes and steaks. tried to make my own beer once... what a friggin disaster. thank god they figured out how to put those little nitrogen thingies in the guinness bottles.

[tree]

Re: Starbucks:- Wake up & smell the Coffee!

If Dr. Jim can cut up and sew back a mouth, he can do anything around the house!

[tsikRNA]

Re: Starbucks:- Wake up & smell the Coffee!

brother, i'm all for swinging a hammer and scratching the ground with a rake but i'm less enthused about growing my own corn flakes and steaks. tried to make my own beer once... what a friggin disaster. thank god they figured out how to put those little nitrogen thingies in the guinness bottles.

Sorry, nothing beats the tap as far as Guinness is concerned . Unless the lines go bad that week. I will say, I'm for the philosophy of division of labor. I find Rothbard and Mises somewhat egotistical when they talk about "primitives". But from a systems risk point of view, you don't screw around when it comes to your food supply. Everyone should know how to and try to do a little. It's just good security for stability of the species. You turn that over solely to artisans and sooner or later the knowledge is gone. Not to mention the crimes that Monsanto and ADM do to the food and seed supply. It's man's ego that makes him think he knows more than and can tame nature. In most cases, it ends up killing him.

As far as Starbucks goes, I'm sure the people who have lost their "House of Burnt Beans" can go to the one 2 blocks down. I make my own with Stumptown, so don't care.

[metalman]

Re: Starbucks:- Wake up & smell the Coffee!

Sorry, nothing beats the tap as far as Guinness is concerned . Unless the lines go bad that week.

no kidding. from here in the stick you have to travel 100 miles for s decent pour.

I will say, I'm for the philosophy of division of labor. I find Rothbard and Mises somewhat egotistical when they talk about "primitives".

take the bad with the good with all these guys. ignore the mises idea of money... it's out of date. sure the modern credit system is abused, but it's a marvel of exactly the kind of free market development they favor. and the romanticism about the past... silly. medicine, cars, you name it. it's better.

But from a systems risk point of view, you don't screw around when it comes to your food supply. Everyone should know how to and try to do a little. It's just good security for stability of the species. You turn that over solely to artisans and sooner or later the knowledge is gone. Not to mention the crimes that Monsanto and ADM do to the food and seed supply. It's man's ego that makes him think he knows more than and can tame nature. In most cases, it ends up killing him.

monsanto ruined diversity... scary stuff. and we can't eat without millions of gallons of oil for fertilizer, pesticides, harvesting, storage, transport...

As far as Starbucks goes, I'm sure the people who have lost their "House of Burnt Beans" can go to the one 2 blocks down. I make my own with Stumptown, so don't care.

starbucks will go the way of beenie babies. overpriced dolls and coffee are destined for the same scrap heap.