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  • Here Come the "Green" Taxes...

    Think California is leading the way?

    Check out the price of motor gasoline in British Columbia, Canada with today's start of their new carbon tax on hydrocarbon fuels...$1.50 per litre or $5.68 per US gallon. Anybody in California paying that much for gasoline yet?

    Also note the overwhelming support from the population towards this particular option to "do something" about global warming...:rolleyes:
    Day 1 of B.C.'s tax revs up political pressure


    DAVID EBNER
    From Wednesday's Globe and Mail
    July 1, 2008 at 9:25 PM EDT

    VANCOUVER The price of gasoline shot to $1.50 a litre in Vancouver on Tuesday as British Columbians became the first Canadians to deal directly with a carbon tax.

    The extra 2.34 cents a litre for regular gasoline has caused consternation among the majority of voters – highlighting the challenge of carbon-pricing politics.

    For B.C. Premier Gordon Campbell, who faces an election next May, and others pushing green policies such as federal Liberal Leader Stéphane Dion, it is the hardest political sell of this generation. Canadians say the environment is a priority, but polls also indicate voters are worried about expensive energy as the price of oil soars.

    Tuesday was Day 1 of B.C.'s carbon tax, applied to fossil fuels including gasoline and diesel, as well as to natural gas and home-heating fuel, and paid by individual and business purchasers.

    The new levy on gasoline, to rise to about 7 cents a litre in 2012, has attracted the most attention from the NDP's “axe-the-tax” campaign and media headlines such as: “Taxman getting fat on high gas prices.”

    In B.C., among voters familiar with the carbon-tax proposal, opinion is now roughly evenly split, according to research firm Innovative Research Group Inc., down from support of about two-to-one in favour after it was announced in February.

    Other pollsters have found B.C. residents are generally against the tax, with three in five opposing it in an Ipsos-Reid poll in June.

    Politicians have to aggressively and emotionally sell green policies to succeed, said Greg Lyle, a pollster at Innovative Research. He added that even though Mr. Dion's proposal doesn't include a hit at the gas pump for consumers, because it pins the cost on big businesses, voters see a “tax as a tax.” The challenge for Mr. Campbell in B.C. is the same as that facing Mr. Dion, he suggests.

    “Number one, you've got to defend the idea,” Mr. Lyle said. “There's only so much news in this that is good news. The reality is that a lot of this is bad news in the headlines. [Mr. Dion] has to fight this on an emotional level. He can't fight on the specific details of his program. He has to fight on the broader need for it, on why he's doing this. And he has to sound like he cares. That's what Gordon Campbell has to do, too.”

    Environmentalists want Mr. Campbell to “more vigorously” defend the policy against the NDP and said voters will be favourable if they can see that the money is going to things such as better public transit.
    “[A carbon tax] is [a] tough political step to take but it is good policy,” said analyst Matt Horne at Pembina Institute, an environmental research group.

    The risk of an increasingly agitated public, as the economy weakens and gasoline gets more expensive, is big enough that Mark Jaccard, a resource economist at Simon Fraser University, worried publicly last week that the Campbell government might back down on it.

    The B.C. government has billed the carbon tax as “revenue neutral,” meaning that the government won't take in more than it would otherwise. Alongside more expensive carbon, income taxes for individuals and businesses were reduced on Tuesday.

    But groups such as the B.C. Trucking Association are upset, calling on the B.C. government to pour more money into incentives for its members to reduce fuel usage. Trucking accounts for about 10 per cent of B.C.'s greenhouse gas emissions.

    “Just imposing a few pennies a litre on our industry is not going to get the job done,” said Paul Landry, president of the trucking association.
    He said that drivers and trucking companies – most of them very small businesses – will only get back a small amount of the carbon tax.
    “It's a transfer of wealth of hard-working British Columbians in the trucking industry to other taxpayers.”

    For Mr. Campbell, who can only afford to lose six of his 46 seats and still hold power, general support for the Liberals has essentially held steady in the past year and hasn't been sunk by the carbon tax. But to assuage voters, cheques of $100 have been sent to British Columbians, with some of them quickly spending the money on a tank of gas.

    On Gabriola Island, though, between Vancouver and Vancouver Island, some residents are banding together to make a long-time idea for a public-transit bus a reality. They're hoping to get 20 per cent of the island's 4,500 residents to hand over $100, raising about $100,000.

    “It's tempting to just spend $100 on something like gas for a road trip, but it's a pretty green island,” said organizer Judith Roux of her fellow Gabriola residents. “It just seems like the right time.”

    B.C. is a province with two urban areas on the south coast; Vancouvergoinup and Victoria. The rest of the province, which is highly resource extraction dependent, does not have rapid transit or bike path options. The forest industry, which at one time was B.C.'s largest single industry, is on its knees with sawmills shutting down and banks auctioning the equipment every month [mills that have operated for over 100 years are closing in this cycle].

    This tax will be another transfer of wealth from the low population density fringes to the politically powerful and vote-rich urban areas. If I lived in Prince Rupert or Prince George, I would wonder exactly who this government is looking out for.

  • #2
    Re: Here Come the "Green" Taxes...

    Originally posted by GRG55 View Post
    Think California is leading the way?

    Check out the price of motor gasoline in British Columbia, Canada with today's start of their new carbon tax on hydrocarbon fuels...$1.50 per litre or $5.68 per US gallon. Anybody in California paying that much for gasoline yet?

    Also note the overwhelming support from the population towards this particular option to "do something" about global warming...

    More on the public reaction to the carbon tax. Note this article is written by a journalist that is sympathetic to the tax [and no doubt dutifully did his part to "sell it" to his readers], working for a paper that has always been mildly socialist in its editorial stance.

    If you think this is just a minor tax story from some Canadian backwater, just wait. In one form or another, perhaps visible, perhaps hidden, it'll be coming to your neighbourhood soon...
    Carbon-tax war will challenge Campbell


    Paul Willcocks, Times Colonist

    Published: Monday, June 23, 2008

    ...The carbon tax doesn't take effect until July 1. If people are opposed now, they'll be crankier when gas prices rise another 2.4 cents a litre on Canada Day.

    The NDP is trying to score points on the issue. Leader Carole James kicked off an "Axe the Tax" campaign this week.

    It's a crassly opportunistic move. The New Democrats are on record as supporting a carbon tax. Their opposition to this particular version rests on pretty flimsy ground.

    At the same time, the federal Conservatives are bashing Stéphane Dion's carbon tax, which is more modest than Premier Gordon Campbell's, in their typically hysterical way. Left and right are united against the tax.

    The Ipsos poll confirmed that. The poll found 59 per cent of British Columbians opposed the carbon tax. Significantly, 45 per cent said they were strongly opposed.

    And a majority of voters who identified themselves as supporters of all three main parties -- even Green supporters -- opposed the tax.

    Islanders and people with universities were split evenly on the carbon tax, but in every other group -- the Lower Mainland and the rest of the province, men and women, rich and poor, old and young -- more than half were opposed.

    It looks like the Liberals underestimated the backlash (as I did)...

    ...And suspicion about the promise of revenue neutrality runs deep. The carbon tax is designed to reward people who change their behaviour to cut their gas and oil consumption. A Lower Mainland resident, for example, can switch to public transit. That's not likely possible for someone living somewhere outside Mackenzie...

    ...And the provincial opposition brings a rare unity -- some business groups, unions, Canadian Taxpayers Federation and the NDP all stand together.
    http://www.canada.com/victoriatimesc...db4fb209e1&p=1

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Here Come the "Green" Taxes...and regulations too!

      I was a little concerned about my job security working in a natural gas plant considering the rising cost of natural gas. My plant only runs about 3 months per year as it is, but alas, coal takes another regulatory pounding. I'll keep my paycheck even if 10% of it goes to my electricity bill.
      Ga. judge halts construction of coal-fired plant
      Monday June 30, 5:33 pm ET
      By Greg Bluestein, Associated Press Writer
      Georgia judge rules to halt construction of coal-fired power plant

      ATLANTA (AP) -- The construction of a coal-fired power plant in Georgia was halted Monday when a judge ruled that the plant's builders must first obtain a permit from state regulators that limits the amount of carbon dioxide emissions. The judge's decision overturned a ruling that allowed the construction of the $2 billion Longleaf Energy Plant, which would become Georgia's first new coal-fired plant in more than two decades.
      Environmentalists said the decision marks the first time that a judge has applied a U.S. Supreme Court finding that carbon dioxide is a pollutant to emissions from an industrial source. The court's April 2007 decision required the Environmental Protection Agency to regulate carbon dioxide, the greenhouse gas most blamed for global warming.
      "We will be taking this decision and making the same arguments to push for an end to conventional coal," said Bruce Nilles, who oversees the Sierra Club's National Coal Campaign.
      The plant's developers, LS Power and Dynegy Inc., were reviewing the ruling and did not have an immediate comment.
      At a June 3 hearing, lawyers representing state regulators and plant developers said there was no federal standard yet to reduce carbon dioxide emissions, and warned that a ruling to regulate the gas would "short-circuit" legislators' work to develop new rules.
      The plant is expected to create more than 100 full-time jobs and give millions of dollars in tax revenues to Early County, where almost a quarter of the 12,000 residents live in poverty. It would power more than a half-million homes through utilities in Georgia, Alabama and Florida.
      Each year it would emit as much as 9 million tons of carbon dioxide, worrying critics who say it could cause health problems in a county that already suffers above-average air pollution.
      Nilles said he and other environmental attorneys are now preparing similar arguments to delay about 30 coal plants now in active litigation. "The issue is now teed up from Nevada to North and South Carolina," he said.
      The decision will force state regulators to reconsider coal-fired power plants and could push state regulators toward cleaner and more efficient energy, said Patti Durand, director of the Sierra Club's Georgia chapter.
      "It's a scandal that energy companies are still trying to build coal plants even though they cause global warming," she said. "I can't be more thrilled. It's a huge ruling. This is a new day in the United States, and I'm thrilled."

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Here Come the "Green" Taxes...and regulations too!

        Originally posted by tombat1913 View Post
        I was a little concerned about my job security working in a natural gas plant considering the rising cost of natural gas. My plant only runs about 3 months per year as it is, but alas, coal takes another regulatory pounding. I'll keep my paycheck even if 10% of it goes to my electricity bill.
        Ga. judge halts construction of coal-fired plant
        Monday June 30, 5:33 pm ET
        By Greg Bluestein, Associated Press Writer
        Georgia judge rules to halt construction of coal-fired power plant

        ATLANTA (AP) -- The construction of a coal-fired power plant in Georgia was halted Monday when a judge ruled that the plant's builders must first obtain a permit from state regulators that limits the amount of carbon dioxide emissions. The judge's decision overturned a ruling that allowed the construction of the $2 billion Longleaf Energy Plant, which would become Georgia's first new coal-fired plant in more than two decades.
        Environmentalists said the decision marks the first time that a judge has applied a U.S. Supreme Court finding that carbon dioxide is a pollutant to emissions from an industrial source. The court's April 2007 decision required the Environmental Protection Agency to regulate carbon dioxide, the greenhouse gas most blamed for global warming.
        "We will be taking this decision and making the same arguments to push for an end to conventional coal," said Bruce Nilles, who oversees the Sierra Club's National Coal Campaign.
        The plant's developers, LS Power and Dynegy Inc., were reviewing the ruling and did not have an immediate comment.
        At a June 3 hearing, lawyers representing state regulators and plant developers said there was no federal standard yet to reduce carbon dioxide emissions, and warned that a ruling to regulate the gas would "short-circuit" legislators' work to develop new rules.
        The plant is expected to create more than 100 full-time jobs and give millions of dollars in tax revenues to Early County, where almost a quarter of the 12,000 residents live in poverty. It would power more than a half-million homes through utilities in Georgia, Alabama and Florida.
        Each year it would emit as much as 9 million tons of carbon dioxide, worrying critics who say it could cause health problems in a county that already suffers above-average air pollution.
        Nilles said he and other environmental attorneys are now preparing similar arguments to delay about 30 coal plants now in active litigation. "The issue is now teed up from Nevada to North and South Carolina," he said.
        The decision will force state regulators to reconsider coal-fired power plants and could push state regulators toward cleaner and more efficient energy, said Patti Durand, director of the Sierra Club's Georgia chapter.
        "It's a scandal that energy companies are still trying to build coal plants even though they cause global warming," she said. "I can't be more thrilled. It's a huge ruling. This is a new day in the United States, and I'm thrilled."
        The equation is simple:
        • Can't build any more coal; can't build any more nuclear, can't build any more hydro dams.
        • The value of existing installations rises as power demand increases (more computers, plug-in hybrids, electric trains, and so forth) faster than the ability to meet it.
        • Wind and solar need back up generation for those times the wind don't blow and the sun don't shine.
        • The ONLY feasible new back-up capacity that can now be installed is natural gas turbines.
        • Over time the peaking facilities, like the one you apparently operate, will have their capacity absorbed by increasing electricity demand and lack of new power generation construction. Ergo the back-up for wind and solar will actually be compromised.
        • Welcome to the world of perpetual rotating blackouts...

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Here Come the "Green" Taxes...and regulations too!

          Originally posted by GRG55 View Post
          The equation is simple:
          • Can't build any more coal; can't build any more nuclear, can't build any more hydro dams.
          • The value of existing installations rises as power demand increases (more computers, plug-in hybrids, electric trains, and so forth) faster than the ability to meet it.
          • Wind and solar need back up generation for those times the wind don't blow and the sun don't shine.
          • The ONLY feasible new back-up capacity that can now be installed is natural gas turbines.
          • Over time the peaking facilities, like the one you apparently operate, will have their capacity absorbed by increasing electricity demand and lack of new power generation construction. Ergo the back-up for wind and solar will actually be compromised.
          • Welcome to the world of perpetual rotating blackouts...
          Brownouts will cause enough pain http://www.itulip.com/forums/showthr...39044#poststop for acceptance of nuclear.
          When carbon is priced at $45 per ton http://www.itulip.com/forums/showthr...5248#post35248 nuclear is feasible.
          http://www.itulip.com/forums/showthr...33297#poststop
          Pricing carbon and taxing carbon will accelerate the need for non carbon based energy and nuclear power will fill the demand.


          http://www.guardian.co.uk/environmen.../26/energy.usa
          America's No 2 utility wins right to build $1.8bn power plant
          Thursday June 26, 2008
          The vote was unanimous, with even board members who favour a carbon tax calling for more coal to burn.
          "We need more power in this country … and if we get brownouts, we will quickly lose support for carbon controls," pollution control board member Bruce Buckheit told the Times-News of rural Kingsport, Tennessee.
          The defeat of more than 15 proposed US coal plants in 2006 and 2007, a victory for grassroots activists, was followed four months ago by a breakthrough on Wall Street when investment banks set strict new financing standards for the construction of new power stations.
          "The utility industry is asking for a free allocation system, where [the government] would give [carbon] credits away based on historic past emissions levels," Cale Jaffe, a staff attorney at the nonprofit Southern Environmental Law centre, said.
          Thus if companies build new power plants now, Jaffe explained, they stand to benefit from larger carbon credits in the future under a free allocation system. "You have a perverse reduced incentive … they want to build as many coal plants as possible," he added.
          Still, Dominion boasted a crucial ally in Virginia governor Tim Kaine, a Democratic wunderkind who dashed the hopes of activists by backing the power company.
          Renowned climate scientist James Hansen, who called this week to ban future coal-fired power plants, personally wrote to Kaine asking him to rethink his stance. Yet the relentless pull of US energy demands proved more politically powerful than even the economic costs of the new plant.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Here Come the "Green" Taxes...

            Here was another piece from the Vancouver Sun -
            Civilization's golden era is teetering on collapse

            The period from 1950 to 2000 will be remembered as the Golden Era of modern civilization, the pinnacle reached by humans after a million years of evolution. This brilliant half-century was sponsored largely by fossil fuels, especially oil, which brought unprecedented economic growth, plentiful transportation and a rich and diverse lifestyle.

            But the new millennium has brought the end of cheap oil, and civilization is suddenly teetering on the edge of collapse. Even if we manage to scrape through (and it would require heroic efforts), life will change. We're at one of the most important turning points in history, yet we persistently ignore the coming meltdown and just want to party on. Nero would be proud.

            So, why is civilization teetering?

            First, peak oil has arrived. There is no better signal than the price of oil, which has skyrocketed past $130 and shows no sign of slowing. Some shrug and claim there's still a lot left, technology will find it and extract it. Others, as represented by the editors of Maclean's magazine, feel that we have grappled with costly oil before and by applying determined conservation and new efficiencies, we will cope.

            Wrong! Wrong! Wrong!

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Here Come the "Green" Taxes...

              Originally posted by Rajiv View Post
              Here was another piece from the Vancouver Sun -
              Civilization's golden era is teetering on collapse

              Nice article, Rajiv, something I'll try to get my wife to read.

              I liked this part, because to me the first solution to most of our problems is as written: a no-brainer.

              While oil brought good times, it also allowed human numbers to soar well beyond the carrying capacity of the planet. We cannot continue to ignore this basic underlying problem. It will yield not one millimeter of progress if we decrease our environmental footprint by, say, 20 per cent but the population increases by 20 per cent over the same period.

              The crisis situation is unsolvable unless we also address the population problem. It's elementary logic, a no-brainer.

              Curtailing human population, however, is a daunting challenge. I hope we're up to it, for the alternative is decidedly unpleasant.
              Jim 69 y/o

              "...Texans...the lowest form of white man there is." Robert Duvall, as Al Sieber, in "Geronimo." (see "Location" for examples.)

              Dedicated to the idea that all people deserve a chance for a healthy productive life. B&M Gates Fdn.

              Good judgement comes from experience; experience comes from bad judgement. Unknown.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Here Come the "Green" Taxes...

                Originally posted by Rajiv View Post
                Here was another piece from the Vancouver Sun -
                Civilization's golden era is teetering on collapse
                The Vancouver Sun, eh :eek:

                Wonder if Vancouvergoinup knows about this?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Here Come the "Green" Taxes...and regulations too!

                  Originally posted by bill View Post
                  You may be right bill. But the hurdle for nuclear will not be economic, but a huge, huge shift in public attitudes toward nuclear built up since 3 Mile Island (and, in California, before that...ref: Diablo Canyon).

                  That is not out of the question when one looks at what is transpiring in Western Europe, especially Germany, now that "reality check" time is fast approaching there. Here's an interesting sequence to show how fast things are changing on the political, and the MSM reporting fronts just this year alone:
                  Germany to remain anti-nuclear stronghold
                  Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:12am GMT
                  FRANKFURT, Jan 10 (Reuters) - Germany will uphold staunch political opposition to atomic energy, unperturbed by the mood swinging back in favour of nuclear power elsewhere.

                  Oil at record highs, climate worries, and the need to cut dependency on energy imports is due to move the British government to back new nuclear power plants on Thursday.

                  But Germany, Europe's biggest and most central power market, will not follow suit...

                  ...Merkel is in favour of lengthening the plants' life times, but will not risk an open row with the SPD, which stands by the exit deal struck by former SPD Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder.

                  Utility heads and conservative Economy Minister Michael Glos frequently point out that nuclear energy must be kept alive to allow renewable industries to catch up, as Germany must meet long-term commitments to cut carbon dioxide emissions.

                  "In this situation, the politicians must bite the bullet and support nuclear because of Germany's environmental obligations," said Berthold Hannes, energy expert at consultancy Bain & Company. "I can't see a realistic scenario for replacing nuclear power in Germany, especially with CO2-free production."
                  More...

                  Then...
                  France says wants to work with Germany on nuclear
                  Mon Jun 9, 2008 5:58pm BST
                  STRAUBING, Germany, June 9 (Reuters) - France wants to work with Germany to produce nuclear energy, President Nicolas Sarkozy said on Monday at a joint press conference with German Chancellor Angela Merkel...

                  ...Siemens said last year it was in talks with Areva about keeping its stake in their nuclear-power joint venture.
                  Areva has an option until 2011 to buy Siemens out.
                  More...
                  Then...
                  Merkel Says It's `Wrong' to Close German Nuclear Power Plants

                  By Andreas Cremer
                  June 18 (Bloomberg) -- German Chancellor Angela Merkel said the government's policy of phasing out nuclear power plants was ``wrong'' and should be reversed.

                  ``I think it's wrong to shut down nuclear plants that are among the safest in the world,'' Merkel said today in a speech to an economic conference of her Christian Democratic Union in Berlin. ``Whenever it's possible, and I'm still hoping that some may realize this, this policy must be corrected.''

                  Germany is committed to closing down its nuclear power plants by about 2021 under an agreement reached by the previous coalition government of then Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder's Social Democrats and the Green Party.

                  While Merkel's coalition of Christian Democrats and Social Democrats agreed in 2005 to continue the policy, both parties are seeking to set out their differences before the next national election in September next year.

                  ``We in Germany must conduct a prudent energy policy,'' Merkel said. ``What we are doing at the moment is eroding the diversity of energy production rather than taking steps to expand it. I believe that's the wrong course.''

                  It's not in the interests of Germany, Europe's biggest economy, ``if we have to buy nuclear energy from France and Finland only because we've switched off our own plants,'' Merkel said.
                  Article...


                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Here Come the "Green" Taxes...

                    Originally posted by GRG55 View Post
                    The Vancouver Sun, eh :eek:

                    Wonder if Vancouvergoinup knows about this?
                    Ole vancouvergoingup has been sort of scarce around here lately. I guess he is off spending his profits. I sort of miss his input.
                    Jim 69 y/o

                    "...Texans...the lowest form of white man there is." Robert Duvall, as Al Sieber, in "Geronimo." (see "Location" for examples.)

                    Dedicated to the idea that all people deserve a chance for a healthy productive life. B&M Gates Fdn.

                    Good judgement comes from experience; experience comes from bad judgement. Unknown.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Here Come the "Green" Taxes...and regulations too!

                      Originally posted by GRG55 View Post
                      The hurdle for nuclear will not be economic, but a huge, huge shift in public attitudes toward nuclear built up since 3 Mile Island
                      I think you're right about that. Having operated nuclear power plants as well I find that many people are terrified of nuclear but understand very little about it, especially the amazing advances in reactor safety since 3 Mile Island. The plant I worked in was 40 years old, very safe, and had nothing on safety when compared to a Gen 3 plant.

                      Perhaps the rising utility bills (in addition to gas prices) will help push the public attititudes to be more accepting of cheaper forms of energy even if they are "scary".

                      If they regulate coal too much you might have to start paying state tax there in Wyoming GRG55.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Here Come the "Green" Taxes...and regulations too!

                        Originally posted by tombat1913 View Post
                        I think you're right about that. Having operated nuclear power plants as well I find that many people are terrified of nuclear but understand very little about it, especially the amazing advances in reactor safety since 3 Mile Island. The plant I worked in was 40 years old, very safe, and had nothing on safety when compared to a Gen 3 plant.

                        Perhaps the rising utility bills (in addition to gas prices) will help push the public attititudes to be more accepting of cheaper forms of energy even if they are "scary".

                        If they regulate coal too much you might have to start paying state tax there in Wyoming GRG55.
                        Given your location I was going to guess Rancho Seco, but I remember visiting that plant in 1977 just as it was starting commercial operation, and that's only 30 odd years ago...

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Here Come the "Green" Taxes...

                          maybe he changed his name to "stalkingSchiller" ?

                          Originally posted by Jim Nickerson View Post
                          Ole vancouvergoingup has been sort of scarce around here lately. I guess he is off spending his profits. I sort of miss his input.

                          Comment

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