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What problems facing the world today would not be aided by population reduction?

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  • What problems facing the world today would not be aided by population reduction?

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7429594.stm

    The United Nations Children's Fund (Unicef) has appealed for extra resources to help thousands of severely malnourished children in Ethiopia.

    The organisation says more than 126,000 children could be affected.

    The World Food Programme says nearly 3m Ethiopians will need emergency food aid this year because of late rains and the high cost of food.

    .
    .

    It says the situation is the worst since the major humanitarian crisis of 2003, and is rapidly deteriorating.
    The organisation says $50m (£25m) is urgently required for health, nutrition and water and sanitation.
    The accompanying picture above is difficult for me to differentiate from similar ones that I have encountered in the media over the last 50 years. If there is any difference, it is that most pictures had the poor children covered in flies and the bellies bloated. Not much if anything has changed with the starvation in Africa as I see it. Perhaps a smaller percentage of children are starving today compared to times past, but I don't really know.

    The gists of such stories, as I see them, is to attempt to prevail upon the sentiment, humanity, empathy of the rest of the world that is not starving. The effort, to my perception, is to hopefully force the rest of the world to feel some degree of pain for these people's sufferings and thus to donate whatever in an attempt to lessen the hardships or prolong the lives of those afflicted.

    I wonder why is it that children are the ones who are shown to be the suffering versus adults who must be just as badly affected?

    If there is any result of the world's concerns, demonstrated by whatever has been contributed to food programs over the last 50 years, about the starvation and hardships these Africans have experienced, I fail to see it. Perhaps life has been prolonged so that more babies can be produced so that the number of those facing starvation now, or next year, or next decade is or will be larger.

    On all these pages of iTulip, how many problems are discussed now facing the world would not be considerably lessened or perhaps even disappear if the population of the planet was reduced by half?

    One of the first things I might have learned in medicine (internal medicine rotation as an oral surgical intern) was "When one hears hoofbeats, look for horses, not zebras." (In Africa that probably isn't true.) Years later I was confused to hear or read about Occam's razor: "a scientific and philosophic rule that entities should not be multiplied unnecessarily which is interpreted as requiring that the simplest of competing theories be preferred to the more complex or that explanations of unknown phenomena be sought first in terms of known quantities" until I figured out: horse--zebras = Occam's razor.

    To my simplistic thinking, most of the world's problems would be lessened significantly if the population were to be reduced significantly--for my off-the-cuff preference, say by 50%. That is the simple answer. Any answer that does not take into account the ultimate necessity of lessening the population only unnecessarily escalates the complications of seeking a solution, which in my opinion ultimately will be a band-aid compared to any true solution of the problems facing mankind today.

    I truly hate to kill a fly, though I do kill them because I despise them, because life is all that fly has; however, I seriously always apolgize to the fly for taking its life. The fact about flies and other noxious forms of life is that their lives are accidents over which their progenitors had no conscious control. It is not the same with us humans. We do have the possibility of controlling whether or not we produce offspring. It seems to me that we humans clearly do not all act in ways that are in our own best interest or the best interest of those who may follow our brief period on Earth. Society by ways of government make new laws when pushed to do so by the behavior of those whose actions are against the general welfare of the rest of society. When will those who govern societies take it upon themselves by the severity of population excess to enforce population control? Despite what anyone thinks of China's communist leaders, it has had the good sense to limit the number of children its citizens can bear. It's unfortunate that the policy was not begun sooner and has not spread to encompass the world.

    I personally feel no remorse over the deaths that have occurred in the world because of starvation, disease, or natural disasters. It is truly unfortunate that people die of such and unpleasant to think about their sufferings, but each of two individuals are generally responsible when they procreate new humans--no one else is responsible for their actions, and thus no one else should feel badly about not bearing some responsibility for the outcome of the production of new babies for which the future is bleak at best. The true misfortune for those dying of starvation is that they were allowed to be born at all.

    I am not asking that anyone agree with my sentiments about this problem, but I am seeking opinions that would make me think I may be wrong about the serious need to curb worldwide population growth.

    What is made better on this planet by the continuous increase of human population?
    Last edited by Jim Nickerson; June 01, 2008, 03:11 PM.
    Jim 69 y/o

    "...Texans...the lowest form of white man there is." Robert Duvall, as Al Sieber, in "Geronimo." (see "Location" for examples.)

    Dedicated to the idea that all people deserve a chance for a healthy productive life. B&M Gates Fdn.

    Good judgement comes from experience; experience comes from bad judgement. Unknown.

  • #2
    Re: What problems facing the world today would not be aided by population reduction?

    .
    Last edited by Nervous Drake; January 19, 2015, 01:39 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: What problems facing the world today would not be aided by population reduction?

      Jim just think bird flu - i agree. Just hope me and the kids don't get it lol

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: What problems facing the world today would not be aided by population reduction?

        Originally posted by Nervous Drake View Post
        When the needs of the world are met with innovation, the population will flourish. There is no WAY it could happen any other way.
        I don't think that is much of an answer to my question, Drake. I was serious in asking what problems would not be lessened if the population were lessened. You apparently see NO problems with mankinds use of available resources.

        Innovate me some potable water in my Ethiopian desert home.

        Innovate me some education in Dafur.

        Innovate me some place to sleep this winter in Sechuan.
        Jim 69 y/o

        "...Texans...the lowest form of white man there is." Robert Duvall, as Al Sieber, in "Geronimo." (see "Location" for examples.)

        Dedicated to the idea that all people deserve a chance for a healthy productive life. B&M Gates Fdn.

        Good judgement comes from experience; experience comes from bad judgement. Unknown.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: What problems facing the world today would not be aided by population reduction?

          Originally posted by RickBishop View Post
          Jim just think bird flu - i agree. Just hope me and the kids don't get it lol
          Let's assume natural causes in the way of disease (or the unatural cause of world nuclear destruction) do not significantly reduce the planet's population. Are there any problems facing the world today that will not be lessened by fewer inhabitants of humans?

          Am I missing something that unchecked population will ultimately lead to something better than we have today for all of humanity?
          Jim 69 y/o

          "...Texans...the lowest form of white man there is." Robert Duvall, as Al Sieber, in "Geronimo." (see "Location" for examples.)

          Dedicated to the idea that all people deserve a chance for a healthy productive life. B&M Gates Fdn.

          Good judgement comes from experience; experience comes from bad judgement. Unknown.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: What problems facing the world today would not be aided by population reduction?

            Originally posted by Jim Nickerson View Post
            I don't think that is much of an answer to my question, Drake. I was serious in asking what problems would not be lessened if the population were lessened. You apparently see NO problems with mankinds use of available resources.

            Innovate me some potable water in my Ethiopian desert home.

            Innovate me some education in Dafur.

            Innovate me some place to sleep this winter in Sechuan.

            Jim,
            Apologies in advance if any of this comes across as less than gentle or too strident.
            What's up with this? Did you just watch a "Logan's run"?

            If you are signalling a rallying call for man to help his fellow man, and for more grass roots organizations and charities to rise up and disseminate help and messages and influence our democracy to recognize the value and virtue in the stewardship of our natural resources, and the dignity, rights and responsibilities of each human being on the planet, then all power to you, and I'll help carry the flag.

            But if you're wondering if it might help "us all" if some world order implemented a program and mandatory population reduction (please forgive and correct if this is inaccurate), so that everyone can live "better" than I must take issue my friend.
            We are our brother's keeper, but not a judge as to who our brother will be and how many we will have.

            Assuming arguendo, that there is any "utilitarian" merit to the idea of cutting the population, and cutting the population in half would appear to me to probably reduce resource consumption - and if that was ones main goal (certainly not tops on my list), then perhaps its a way to go... but

            Who gets to choose how this is implemented- do we draw straws?

            I for one am of the view that we should live and let live - a libertarian point of view. Don't infringe my natural rights and I won't infringe yours.

            This is a very appealling position to many - as it's very simply apprehended by the reason and sense of justice to the point of being common sense - no this is not the generousity of the golden rule - but a simple social contract that allows individuals to live peacable together and with mutual and common expectations.

            IMO -Man's free choices daily and throughout history are the causes of many if not most of problems we face - greed, envy and the rest .....
            "Everybody wants to rule the world" is the problem as I see it - the good news is that most of us only want to rule our little world, home, family, and our own choices. Unfortunately, their are always a few who are not content with such and would acquire (or develop systems to) as much power over others as they can muster.

            There are 2 primary world views of justice and liberty as I see it - and the natural law view - keeps the "rulers" at bay;

            Natural law: Lockean, Jeffersonian et al natural rights - e.g., life liberty, etc. endowed by a creator - absolute rights - not subject to exceptions or utilitarian casuistry.

            Positive law:
            positive law being promulgated by legal, scientific, and ethical "experts" - what we sort of have now and ever increasing. With education, media, and marketing campaigns, the population can be sold almost anything in the name of "for the greater good" -



            Peace

            VV

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: What problems facing the world today would not be aided by population reduction?

              Originally posted by vinoveri View Post
              Jim,
              Apologies in advance if any of this comes across as less than gentle or too strident.
              What's up with this? Did you just watch a "Logan's run"?

              If you are signalling a rallying call for man to help his fellow man, and for more grass roots organizations and charities to rise up and disseminate help and messages and influence our democracy to recognize the value and virtue in the stewardship of our natural resources, and the dignity, rights and responsibilities of each human being on the planet, then all power to you, and I'll help carry the flag.

              But if you're wondering if it might help "us all" if some world order implemented a program and mandatory population reduction (please forgive and correct if this is inaccurate), so that everyone can live "better" than I must take issue my friend.
              We are our brother's keeper, but not a judge as to who our brother will be and how many we will have.

              Assuming arguendo, that there is any "utilitarian" merit to the idea of cutting the population, and cutting the population in half would appear to me to probably reduce resource consumption - and if that was ones main goal (certainly not tops on my list), then perhaps its a way to go... but

              Who gets to choose how this is implemented- do we draw straws?

              I for one am of the view that we should live and let live - a libertarian point of view. Don't infringe my natural rights and I won't infringe yours.

              This is a very appealling position to many - as it's very simply apprehended by the reason and sense of justice to the point of being common sense - no this is not the generousity of the golden rule - but a simple social contract that allows individuals to live peacable together and with mutual and common expectations.

              IMO -Man's free choices daily and throughout history are the causes of many if not most of problems we face - greed, envy and the rest .....
              "Everybody wants to rule the world" is the problem as I see it - the good news is that most of us only want to rule our little world, home, family, and our own choices. Unfortunately, their are always a few who are not content with such and would acquire (or develop systems to) as much power over others as they can muster.

              There are 2 primary world views of justice and liberty as I see it - and the natural law view - keeps the "rulers" at bay;

              Natural law: Lockean, Jeffersonian et al natural rights - e.g., life liberty, etc. endowed by a creator - absolute rights - not subject to exceptions or utilitarian casuistry.

              Positive law:
              positive law being promulgated by legal, scientific, and ethical "experts" - what we sort of have now and ever increasing. With education, media, and marketing campaigns, the population can be sold almost anything in the name of "for the greater good" -

              Peace

              VV
              So I will ask the question again: What problems facing the world today would not be lessened by population reduction?

              Cannot anyone suggest something about life on Earth for all humans that is improved by there being more humans?
              Jim 69 y/o

              "...Texans...the lowest form of white man there is." Robert Duvall, as Al Sieber, in "Geronimo." (see "Location" for examples.)

              Dedicated to the idea that all people deserve a chance for a healthy productive life. B&M Gates Fdn.

              Good judgement comes from experience; experience comes from bad judgement. Unknown.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: What problems facing the world today would not be aided by population reduction?

                Jim,

                I think you are falling into the trap of thinking there are limited options for humans and assuming we are always constrained by our environment. That sort of thinking was what gave the world eugenics. Seductive to the shallow thinker but a siren song that leads to destruction.

                Yes, at first glance, we could list a whole litany of problems that we think could be solved by population reduction. Or would they? For instance, in the short term, the Chinese one child rule worked great, in the longer term it is becoming problematic.

                What problems do we have today that weren't around in some form over the millennia? Hunger? War? Limited resources? Urban congestion? Is the world a better place now than it was 20 years ago? 200 years ago?, 2,000 years ago? I think by any metric the answer has to be yes.

                But let's say, we agree with your premise. What number, then, should we use as the ideal carrying population? 4 Billion, 1 Billion? Less? More? At what population number was the world ever an ideal place.

                We don't know what the ideal carrying capacity is because the carrying capacity of the earth changes with technological improvement. Remember, we (homo sapiens) are the smart ones. We've been figuring our way out of crisis after crisis for 40,000 plus years. Why would things change now?

                So to answer your last question,the thing that is improved by having more humans around is more innovation and more trade. Human capital is the most precious resource we have. It is the one thing we want more of, not less.
                Greg

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: What problems facing the world today would not be aided by population reduction?

                  Originally posted by Jim Nickerson View Post
                  Cannot anyone suggest something about life on Earth for all humans that is improved by there being more humans?
                  ;) Solvency of retirement plans, if by more you mean continuing generations coming up. (If you mean "slaughter all the old", I guess it wouldn't apply).


                  Anyway, what you are really asking is about opportunity costs. Like the broken window, what would those human resources went towards if the window (half of humanity) weren't broken? Tough to answer without a time/dimension travel device of some kind.

                  1) How about brains? If you clip half of humanity, maybe the real question is which people? The guy who cures cancer? The one who makes a breakthrough in physics which send us off to colonize the stars? People are brains with a meatshell to get them around (and to enjoy carnal pleasures, but you know what I mean). The more brains there are, the more total processing power we have as a species.

                  2) Resistance to extinction. The more individuals there are, the more likely that during the next major extinction event there will be enough of the ones with the right resistance/mutation/etc. to keep the ball rolling.

                  3) More beautiful women. There can never, ever be "too many" beautiful women. Ever.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: What problems facing the world today would not be aided by population reduction?

                    Originally posted by Jim Nickerson View Post

                    On all these pages of iTulip, how many problems are discussed now facing the world would not be considerably lessened or perhaps even disappear if the population of the planet was reduced by half?

                    To my simplistic thinking, most of the world's problems would be lessened significantly if the population were to be reduced significantly--for my off-the-cuff preference, say by 50%. That is the simple answer. Any answer that does not take into account the ultimate necessity of lessening the population only unnecessarily escalates the complications of seeking a solution, which in my opinion ultimately will be a band-aid compared to any true solution of the problems facing mankind today.
                    Simplistic thinking indeed . Let's pause and think a bit. Reduce the population by half... Well, which half? Since the issue is natural resources, let's start with those who consume most of them. So, we take out Americans, Europeans, and, for a good measure, Chinese, Japanese, and Koreans. That's about half, give or take a few hundred million. Is the rest of the world better off? I'd think not, although some would argue that the world would be better off without Americans ;). So, this does not seem to work.

                    What if we dispose of all women?--That's about half. No? How about all men? Doesn't seem to work either (though, again, some would argue). Maybe all the poor people. Now we are getting somewhere. So, 50% of the population. It means that those who make less than a median must go. Imagine, for example, the U.S. where all who make less than a median salary suddenly disappeared. Per capita income would jump overnight! Yeah! Well, who would wait at your table in a restaurant, or fix your car, or sell you groceries, or deliver your mail, or fight your war? Those people are an indispensible part of the economy. The society, as far as I can tell (at least at present), cannot function without these low-paid jobs.

                    The key statement is in the second to last sentence above. The only people, it seems, the world can do without are those who are not part of the world economy. Thing is, if they are not part of the economy, they are not depleting the resources for the rest of us. So, 'disappearing' them won't help. Unless, of course, the goal is to go out there and steal their land--wouldn't be the first time.

                    Difficult and complex problems often have a very simple, and WRONG, solution. It is rather convenient to "identify" a single silver bullet and demand from others to prove to you that it does not work, especially if it requires no further effort on your part. Nonetheless, I will attempt an answer to your question

                    Originally posted by Jim Nickerson View Post
                    Cannot anyone suggest something about life on Earth for all humans that is improved by there being more humans?
                    Let me start with a statement, which may not seem obvious to some, but is true nonetheless:
                    1. The only way to improve the overall quality of life of a society is by innovation.

                    -> I am not going to prove this statement here--it probably requires a separate thread if not a dissertation.

                    2. The more significant the innovation (in terms of improving quality of life) the more rare it is.

                    -> This statement should be rather self-evident.

                    3. (Corollary from 2) Most sigificant innovations are introduced by a vanishingly small fraction (percentage) of population. For simplicity, I will call those highly innovative individuals the geniuses.

                    Now, if we assume that geniuses constitute a constant fraction of a society (which, incidentally, appears to be true--don't have a source though), then a larger population holds a larger absolute number of geniuses, and therefore is more innovative than a smaller population, which leads to faster improvement its quality of life. QED.

                    I realize that this is a rather 'simplistic' proof (e.g. it imiplicitly assumes that the innovators are not squashed or killed off by a political or economic system), but, hey, for simplistic thinking here is a simplistic proof ;).

                    Cheers,
                    J.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: What problems facing the world today would not be aided by population reduction?

                      Originally posted by Jim Nickerson View Post
                      So I will ask the question again: What problems facing the world today would not be lessened by population reduction?

                      Cannot anyone suggest something about life on Earth for all humans that is improved by there being more humans?


                      Goodness, Virtue, Ideal,Joy
                      Last edited by vinoveri; June 01, 2008, 10:39 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: What problems facing the world today would not be aided by population reduction?

                        Originally posted by BiscayneSunrise View Post
                        Jim,

                        I think you are falling into the trap of thinking there are limited options for humans and assuming we are always constrained by our environment.
                        BS, I am falling into no trap, what I am suggesting is that the answer to most of the world's most serious problems have a simple answer and that is to have fewer humans. Whether or not you or anyone likes that as the best answer is irrelevant as I see it. We have a problem when all humans's quality of life is considered and this likely has been a problem perhaps nearly always, but what is to be done about it? Whatever technological improvements have been made, the problem for some is not going away.

                        Originally posted by biscaynesunrise
                        That sort of thinking was what gave the world eugenics. Seductive to the shallow thinker but a siren song that leads to destruction.
                        People might be capable of being made aware of problems and then themselves taking steps to alleviate the problem. When individuals do not accept personal responsibility for solving problems that affect society at large, then ultimately it seems whatever governments that exist will take steps to control the problem. Take speeding, take drunk driving, take licensing to operate vehicles, take standards for operating hospitals, and on and on for all the things for which there exists rules, regulations, and laws.

                        Originally posted by BiscayneSunrise
                        Yes, at first glance, we could list a whole litany of problems that we think could be solved by population reduction.
                        I am not asking for a list of things that would be helped by lessened population, but for anything that in fact is made better by the unchecked population increase that has been occurring for thousands if not millions of years--probably that which has occurred in just the last 100 is most signficant, but I am not prepared to argue that as fact.

                        Originally posted by BiscayneSunrise
                        Or would they? For instance, in the short term, the Chinese one child rule worked great, in the longer term it is becoming problematic.
                        I am not sure what you're getting at here. If it worked great for a while, why is it still not great? If there were no checks on the Chinese population, I expect it would crowd the rest of mankind off the planet.

                        What problems do we have today that weren't around in some form over the millennia? Hunger? War? Limited resources? Urban congestion? Is the world a better place now than it was 20 years ago? 200 years ago?, 2,000 years ago? I think by any metric the answer has to be yes.
                        Let's start at the end of your quote above. Let's take the metric of people starving to death. Is that better today than at times past? I would surmise perhaps it is on a percentage basis less, but in a real number more--but that is a guess. The important point is people are still starving, living without ready access to potable water, healthy foods, anything vaguely resembling adequate healthcare, no semblance of serious education (even here in the US), and no strong possibilities of employment through which to even achieve what might even equal living as so-called "trailer trash" in the USA.

                        If the worlds' society is truly presumably improved today, is it better for all of mankind? We have wide-screen TV's, i-whatevers, heated and cooled car seats, McMansions, designer stuff, video games, internet, text messaging, washing machines and dryers, central heat and air, perhaps health insurance, cosmetic surgery, finger nail salons, spas, and others have hovels, no ready access to water, no sanitation facilities, no dependable electricity, no protection from mosquitos, no prospects for education or serious gainful employment. So if we as humans have "advanced" so much, why haven't humans as a whole advanced so much?

                        2000 or 200 years ago resources were not limited. Today they are.


                        Originally posted by BiscayneSunrise
                        But let's say, we agree with your premise. What number, then, should we use as the ideal carrying population? 4 Billion, 1 Billion? Less? More? At what population number was the world ever an ideal place.
                        It will not be I who decides what a appropriate population of the earth will turn out to be or should be. If nature through relative violence does not control the human population, and if individuals through choice do not control the human population, then at some point the elected officials or dictators will make the determination--perhaps as China has attempted or as Hitler attempted.

                        I am not sure that with whatever population, the Earth will ever be an ideal place, but at some level of population given the resources of nature and the resources of human ingenuity, I hope for those that come after all of us that the Earth can achieve being a better place for most all people, rather than an absolutely fantastic place as some might experience in some societies today and an absolute shit-hole for others.

                        Originally posted by BiscayneSunrise
                        We don't know what the ideal carrying capacity is because the carrying capacity of the earth changes with technological improvement. Remember, we (homo sapiens) are the smart ones. We've been figuring our way out of crisis after crisis for 40,000 plus years. Why would things change now?
                        I am not so sure we are the "smart ones" if we do not succeed in preventing our own destruction. Humans have the capacity to achieve solutions to crises, but are we achieving it for most of mankind? I think my dog and cats have it better than many humans now living. Maybe it is the cats and dogs who are the smart ones. If lucky, they get to walk humans, have humans pick up their public droppings, feed and water them, innoculate them, get them healthcare, and euthanize them when they are worn out. Many humans even with all the technological improvements you can count, do not have it so good.

                        Originally posted by BiscayneSunrise
                        So to answer your last question,the thing that is improved by having more humans around is more innovation and more trade.
                        How much potential innovation has been lost by minds that never had an opportunity to be developed to anything close to what might have been their potentials because of premature death from disease and starvation? Are the only potential geniuses destined to have come from developed western civilizations? How much trade results from people who are educated to produce nothing?

                        Human capital is the most precious resource we have. It is the one thing we want more of, not less.
                        The most precious resources we have are those that allow humans to survive. To get the most out of all the potential that may reside in humans, it would be most beneficial if all those humans are allowed to survive at some level that supports their making contributions to society.
                        Last edited by Jim Nickerson; June 01, 2008, 11:09 PM.
                        Jim 69 y/o

                        "...Texans...the lowest form of white man there is." Robert Duvall, as Al Sieber, in "Geronimo." (see "Location" for examples.)

                        Dedicated to the idea that all people deserve a chance for a healthy productive life. B&M Gates Fdn.

                        Good judgement comes from experience; experience comes from bad judgement. Unknown.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: What problems facing the world today would not be aided by population reduction?

                          Jim,
                          Wake up in the morning, take in the sunrise, and feel blessed my man. You have luxuries that most never will. Enjoy it, it doesn't last forever. If you want the answer you seek, spend some time in a third world country giving, or just next door. Plenty of children out there need a good oral surgeon.
                          Jay

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: What problems facing the world today would not be aided by population reduction?

                            Originally posted by Jay View Post
                            Jim,
                            Wake up in the morning, take in the sunrise, and feel blessed my man. You have luxuries that most never will. Enjoy it, it doesn't last forever. If you want the answer you seek, spend some time in a third world country giving, or just next door. Plenty of children out there need a good oral surgeon.
                            Jay
                            Jay, I am nearer the end than the beginning so whatever are the worst of problems yet to afflict mankind, whatever I lose if taken in by the afflictions, will be minimal compared to what others can lose.

                            I and anyone reading this have lived in what has been the greatest time of technological advances that have yet existed at least for those of us fortunate to have been born into some societies. Pity for those without such good luck.

                            I didn't start this thread seeking any answers for myself or wife, and I have no children. Were I you, I would be worried and perhaps you are, if not perhaps you should be if not for yourself, certainly for your progeny.

                            All of childbearing age should be concerned about whether they wish to add to the population even in our developed (or un-devoloping) society. Those who might have the greatest impact on level of existence, quality of life, with regard to adversity for their progeny probably are not reading anything tonight on the internet and that is part of the problem.

                            I maintain, at my level of thinking about the world's problems regarding quality of life, the best answer is the simplest answer, which until corrected I believe is a reduction of population of the planet. How that comes to be achieved, if achieved in the least violent way, will rest upon those who are to come.

                            Glad you got an avatar.
                            Jim 69 y/o

                            "...Texans...the lowest form of white man there is." Robert Duvall, as Al Sieber, in "Geronimo." (see "Location" for examples.)

                            Dedicated to the idea that all people deserve a chance for a healthy productive life. B&M Gates Fdn.

                            Good judgement comes from experience; experience comes from bad judgement. Unknown.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: What problems facing the world today would not be aided by population reduction?

                              Originally posted by Jim Nickerson View Post
                              Jay, I am nearer the end than the beginning so whatever are the worst of problems yet to afflict mankind, whatever I lose if taken in by the afflictions, will be minimal compared to what others can lose.

                              I and anyone reading this have lived in what has been the greatest time of technological advances that have yet existed at least for those of us fortunate to have been born into some societies. Pity for those without such good luck.

                              I didn't start this thread seeking any answers for myself or wife, and I have no children. Were I you, I would be worried and perhaps you are, if not perhaps you should be if not for yourself, certainly for your progeny.

                              All of childbearing age should be concerned about whether they wish to add to the population even in our developed (or un-devoloping) society. Those who might have the greatest impact on level of existence, quality of life, with regard to adversity for their progeny probably are not reading anything tonight on the internet and that is part of the problem.

                              I maintain, at my level of thinking about the world's problems regarding quality of life, the best answer is the simplest answer, which until corrected I believe is a reduction of population of the planet. How that comes to be achieved, if achieved in the least violent way, will rest upon those who are to come.

                              Glad you got an avatar.
                              The simplest answer to me is to look around and see where you can step on the field and make a difference. Get on the court and out of the stands and the answer is at hand. Start by having your neighbors over for a good glass of wine and dinner. Why get Malthusian? It won't get you anywhere except busted expectations. Just commit to what you feel is important. Zyklon-B sprang from heavy feet.

                              The sweet avatar is courtesy of the FRED's and I am grateful.

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