The Answer to Why Hillary Stays in the Race

[sunskyfan]

Why is Hillary Clinton staying in the race for the Democratic nomination? Let’s put two and two together. Hillary Clinton is a hawk when it comes to anything but the US and Israel

Hillary Clinton is a shrewd, if not ruthless, politician. She knows what is coming and she is preparing. It should worry us all not because I think Hillary Clinton is bad but because of what is about to happen to the world.

[phirang]

Re: The Answer to Why Hillary Stays in the Race

Why is Hillary Clinton staying in the race for the Democratic nomination? Let’s put two and two together. Hillary Clinton is a hawk when it comes to anything but the US and Israel

Hillary Clinton is a shrewd, if not ruthless, politician. She knows what is coming and she is preparing. It should worry us all not because I think Hillary Clinton is bad but because of what is about to happen to the world.

If the US strikes Iran, it will shoot oil past 200/bbl and absolutely destroy the US economy. I don't think will serve the voting interests well.

Also, US voters are scared more of high gas than of Iran: I think a war with Iran, with gas at ~4/gal, is going to be a hard sell.

[Slimprofits]

Re: The Answer to Why Hillary Stays in the Race

the rumor that there will be six US aircraft carries in the Persian Gulf soon

That is a false rumor

[metalman]

Re: The Answer to Why Hillary Stays in the Race

Why is Hillary Clinton staying in the race for the Democratic nomination? Let’s put two and two together. Hillary Clinton is a hawk when it comes to anything but the :p:pwar which she voted for in 2002. Her anti-war position has been out of necessity within the Democratic nominating process up to now. Reading the tea leaves of Bush’s trip to Israel last week, his comments directed at Obama suggesting appeasement of Iran, the leaked report from an Israeli Army newspaper that Bush team intends to hit Iran this summer, the rumor that there will be six US aircraft carries in the Persian Gulf soon, and Mrs. Clinton’s remark about “obliterating Iran” three weeks ago, it is clear than Mrs. Clinton knows that an attack on Iran is coming and that she is preparing to be the Democratic Hawk option. She will argue to the Superdelegates and the Democratic convention that Obama is the “peace candidate” as too weak and inexperienced to stand up for the US and Israel:p:p. To placate the African-American community she has started to raise the specter that she has lost due to sexism in the process and the electorate. This is attempt to neutralize the African-American women (which is more that half of the African-American vote) protest if the nomination is taken away from Obama.

:p:p
Hillary Clinton is a shrewd, if not ruthless, politician. She knows what is coming and she is preparing. It should worry us all not because I think Hillary Clinton is bad but because of what is about to happen to the world.

lotta speculation here based on flimsy evidence. i don't buy it.

welcome to the group! ;)

[Starving Steve]

Re: The Answer to Why Hillary Stays in the Race

Why would anyone be upset if the Islamo-fascists in Iran--- the Islamic-fundamentalist thugs who took power in the 1979 revolution against the Shah--- were hit by the U.S. and removed from this planet?

I would CELEBRATE! The problem is that I don't think Bush has the balls to do it..... But anything is possible, so who can say?

Anyway, I don't expect much change in oil, either way. The oil is gone, and the oil will never come back unless the U.S. takes-over Iran and grabs the oil fields--- which the U.S. won't do.

But if the U.S. did cease the oil fields, that would be grounds for another celebration..... But it won't happen because Bush hasn't the balls nor the brains to do it.

[phirang]

Re: The Answer to Why Hillary Stays in the Race

FWIW, i'm long mules .

[Starving Steve]

Re: The Answer to Why Hillary Stays in the Race

FWIW, i'm long mules .

Please don't think that I am voting for some conservative or religious-right nut because I am going to vote for Obama. He is the best of the bunch.

But I am one liberal who is NOT happy with all of the Democrat baggage from years past such as wishful thinking and appeasement policies from Jimmy Carter, gay marriage, feminism, sympathy for radical Muslims on university campuses here in the U.S, solar energy non-solutions to energy problems, windmill nonsense solutions, political correctness, sympathy for welfare bums, sympathy for criminals such as Huey Newton, sympathy for the actions of state Child Protective Services (as in Texas), carbon-footprint cops (as proposed now in California), sympathy for the EPA, affirmative action, and the pure hatred pedaled by the Demos (called "populism") which is aimed against those who produce energy.

As I said, I will hold my nose and vote for Obama. Maybe we can get some constructive change like socialized-medicine out of the deal. But I don't want all of the other Democrat baggage.... And the Republicans need to be PUNISHED and turfed out of office, especially the Republicans who still have complete control of the U.S. Senate.

[sadsack]

Re: The Answer to Why Hillary Stays in the Race

But I am one liberal who is NOT happy with all of the Democrat baggage from years past such as . . . sympathy for the actions of state Child Protective Services (as in Texas).

Amen, brother. TX CPS has been a rolling disaster for at least the last 5 years. My wife is privy in a vague sense to what has been going on - working conditions are so horrible (catastrophic understaffing, etc.) that any remotely qualified social worker wouldn't touch a CPS job without a M60 to his/her head . . .

The end result is virtually an entire agency staffed by people who are not even qualified to pick tin cans from garbage cans, let alone have the final authority on the fate of children and families. :eek:

[BiscayneSunrise]

Re: The Answer to Why Hillary Stays in the Race

Please don't think that I am voting for some conservative or religious-right nut because I am going to vote for Obama. He is the best of the bunch.

But I am one liberal who is NOT happy with all of the Democrat baggage from years past such as wishful thinking and appeasement policies from Jimmy Carter, gay marriage, feminism, sympathy for radical Muslims on university campuses here in the U.S, solar energy non-solutions to energy problems, windmill nonsense solutions, political correctness, sympathy for welfare bums, sympathy for criminals such as Huey Newton, sympathy for the actions of state Child Protective Services (as in Texas), carbon-footprint cops (as proposed now in California), sympathy for the EPA, affirmative action, and the pure hatred pedaled by the Demos (called "populism") which is aimed against those who produce energy.

As I said, I will hold my nose and vote for Obama. Maybe we can get some constructive change like socialized-medicine out of the deal. But I don't want all of the other Democrat baggage.... And the Republicans need to be PUNISHED and turfed out of office, especially the Republicans who still have complete control of the U.S. Senate.

Steve,

I'm not following your line of thinking. You, rightfully object to various disasters brought about by government intervention, pandering and political correctness but then say you will vote for Obama because your hope is he will bring socialized medicine. Won't socialized medicine bring us more of the problems associated with government interference you decry?

Ironically, people hate the Republicans for trying to work against the very same problems you and sadsack deplore but want to boot them out of office.

Help me understand your underlying reasoning.

BTW, there will be NO invasion of Iran. The US has been able to completely isolate Iran diplomatically and like with the Soviet Union, it is now just a waiting game for them to collapse under the weight of their own moribund ideas.

Cordially

[sunskyfan]

Re: The Answer to Why Hillary Stays in the Race

Bubbles form in politics and world affairs as well. Decisions based on trying to keep instantaneously ahead of the herd. No rational person would decide to bomb Iran but no rational person or country would have invaded Iraq or Vietnam. These were escalated decisions whose validity seemed apparent at the time or in the context they were made but from a distance they seemed absurd.

[Starving Steve]

Re: The Answer to Why Hillary Stays in the Race

Dear Greg:

I hope that you are wrong and that socialized medicine will NOT lead to more government waste, bullying, and bureaucracy.

I have seen socialized medicine work very well in Canada, so I think it could work well here. At least, the programme should be tried. Since when is it unamerican or wrong to try new approaches to things?????

I am in favour of trying whatever works.

As far as politics are concerned, I am in favour of PUNISHING the Republicans for a number of outrages: 1.) Telling the people that deficits don't count; 2.) Telling the people that the dollar is as good as gold and that deflation is coming, then quietly DE-VALUING the dollar; 3.) Lying about inflation and doctoring the data to show no inflation; 4.) Failing to raise taxes to pay for spending and letting spending explode; 5.) Going to war without a plan to win the war; 6.) Making a mess out of public schools with a worthless and useless programme of phonics crap, standardized timed testing, penmanship, nationalism, and English-only; 7.) Treating teachers as serfs, rather than with the respect that they deserve as professionals; 8.) Telling the people that you had an energy plan but not implementing that plan in any way whatsoever; 9.) Sitting by and letting U.S. companies move out of the country without doing anything--- except devaluing the dollar; 10.) Building prisons and continuing the drug war; 11.) Allowing walls to built along the border and then calling that "free trade"; 12.) Cutting taxes for your corporate cronies and sticking our children with your deficits from these tax cuts; 13.) Going ahead with your silly corn-to-ethanol programme when you were warned that the programme used more energy than it produces; 14.) Nominating Bernankee to head the Fed; 15.) Blocking health reform and telling the American people that they have the best healthcare system in the world--- when the statistics on costs and benefits of U.S. healthcare show just the opposite is true; 16.) Rigging the elections; 17.) Failing to unite the country and in fact, pitting one section of the nation against the other; 18.) Holding secret courts, imposing secret tortures, monitoring conversation in chatrooms, and trashing the Constitution in general; 19.) Appointing the Christian-right onto the Supreme Court; Politicizing the public schools and placing (and keeping ) unqualified rightwing teachers in the classroom because the schools have doctored the test scores--- a process which is cleverly called, "re-calibration of test scores"; 20.) Governing by gridlock and letting lobbiests pay money to Congress to get anything passed; and on and on and on.......

It is hard to think of a more corrupt and inept government in the world than the current Republican Administration in Washington..... And you are afraid of change?

[algerwetmore]

Re: The Answer to Why Hillary Stays in the Race

Steve, I cannot rebutt anything you have said. But I might add that it started long before Bush. You have to give Bush and his neo-cons credit, though for the masterful partisan politicizing of both domestic and foreign
policy.
The most amazing observation I have noticed is the sheer number of people who still think he is a great president.

[EasternBelle]

Re: The Answer to Why Hillary Stays in the Race

I read (can't provide reference unfortunately) that Hillary is persuing a 'burnt earth' strategy. She can't win this race anymore basically, so she is preparing already for the one in four years time. Whoever wins in November 08 will have a pretty tough time in the next four years given the state of the US economy, demographics and huge unfunded liabilities. So the reasoning goes that the chance of this years president to be re-elected for a second term is rather small.
Apparently this 'burnt earth' strategy has a precedent, with one of the former president's doing it the same way.
Eastern Belle

[BiscayneSunrise]

Re: The Answer to Why Hillary Stays in the Race

As alger points out these problems have been festering for many years so to blame Bush is unfair.

It is easy to allow oneself to become upset over perceptions of the George Bush years because may dearly held biases about him are not true. I have closely researched many of the criticisms against George Bush and have found them to be unfounded. I defend him not because I am a "bushie" but because if we are to make important financial and political decisions it is important to view things as objectively as possible in order to not let emotional biases skew decisions.

To say that you can think of no more corrupt and inept government in the world is an awfully big statement and indicates to me, and I say this respectfully, an emotional and political bias. Why do you say that?

Trust me, there are many pieces of the Bush legacy I do not like and I'm sure we could find agreement on a third of your points. But really? the most corrupt and inept? Against other governments like Robert Mugabe, Chavez or Ahmadinejad or the Myanmar junta?

As for fearing change, it is certainly not unAmerican to be in favor of change. just the opposite, embracing change has been what made America great. I have long been an advocate for change in every arena in play in. I believe we are going through an historical period right now similar to the Renaissance or the Industrial Age. Except that this change is happening so quickly that we are being forced to re-think our world view every 5 years rather than every generation. Just like in other high change periods it will cause lots of political unrest and backlash. I know, I have been on the receiving end of that backlash when being a change agent

I started this dialogue by asking you why you think an Obama sponsored socialized medicine program would not be a failure. As you pointed out, most other socialized programs have had severe unintended consequences, but for this one program you can only offer the hope that this time will be different. Health care in the US is the best in the world, a technological and humanitarian masterpiece. However, I do agree it needs to be re-examined and restructured but I am not so sure I am ready to commit trillions of dollars and force a crucial industry to jump through hoops on the hope that this time will be different.

What would an Obama socialized medicine policy look like and what would be the benefits over the present system and potential consequences ?

Regards,

[Starving Steve]

Re: The Answer to Why Hillary Stays in the Race

Hi Greg:

I am just an observer and an outsider in the Democratic Party, so I have no idea what Obama is proposing. I am just as eager, as probably you are, to hear the details of his proposals.

Especially, I am eager to hear DETAILED proposals on health reform and on energy policy because health reform and energy policy will probably be the two major issues of the campaign.

Ofcourse, candidates don't want to discuss details because the details of policy can lead to attacks by their opposition. So, we have the politics of hope by the Demos and the politics of hate by the Republicans, and sadly, we do not have much more than that.

My HOPE is that Obama will propose to expand Medicare to cover everyone in the U.S, regardless of age, but I don't know what he is going to propose.

My HOPE on energy policy is that Obama will propose to have the government get involved in fast-tracking the construction of atomic power plants everywhere in the country. But again, I don't know what Obama is going to propose.

The answers that the candidates give to questioning in the first few weeks of the fall campaign is going to be very interesting.