FDR's Ghost to save USA!!!

[AmericanBushi]

I'm not a fan of this site, but I was interested to see this article:

http://www.slate.com/id/2187039/

Excerpt:

In the 1930s, Franklin Delano Roosevelt saved American capitalism from its own self-inflicted wounds by erecting a new financial infrastructure—often over the vociferous opposition of the bankers and investors whose poor judgment had helped precipitate the Great Depression. During the New Deal, the government reacted to a disastrous systemic failure by creating the sort of backstops, insurance, and risk-spreading mechanisms the market had failed to develop on its own, such as deposit insurance, federal securities registration, and federally sponsored entities that would insure mortgages.

I'd like to read what the general concensus on this is (I bolded the part that made me vomit a little ;))....

[metalman]

Re: FDR's Ghost to save USA!!!

I'm not a fan of this site, but I was interested to see this article:

http://www.slate.com/id/2187039/

Excerpt:

In the 1930s, Franklin Delano Roosevelt saved American capitalism from its own self-inflicted wounds by erecting a new financial infrastructure—often over the vociferous opposition of the bankers and investors whose poor judgment had helped precipitate the Great Depression. During the New Deal, the government reacted to a disastrous systemic failure by creating the sort of backstops, insurance, and risk-spreading mechanisms the market had failed to develop on its own, such as deposit insurance, federal securities registration, and federally sponsored entities that would insure mortgages.

I'd like to read what the general concensus on this is (I bolded the part that made me vomit a little ;))....

but capitalism did fail in many other countries. you forget fdr's contemporaries at the time...



this guy was financed by usa and brit bankers. no kidding.



this guy, too.



this guy came from one of the families that have run china for 500 years and still do.



another swell guy who jumped on the "capitalism sucks" bandwagon.

ok, now what were you saying about fdr? had a better plan for the usa than these guys had for their countries, no?

nothing like an inflationary train wreck to take down a perfectly good capitalist system. you're seeing it happen on the margins all over the world today with export bans to help keep food affordable.

i'm starting to think ej's $300 oil world where tech and venture capitalsits save the day is a pipe dream. off to kunster's site for a dose of doom i go!

[GRG55]

Re: FDR's Ghost to save USA!!!

but capitalism did fail in many other countries. you forget fdr's contemporaries at the time...

...nothing like an inflationary train wreck to take down a perfectly good capitalist system. you're seeing it happen on the margins all over the world today with export bans to help keep food affordable.

i'm starting to think ej's $300 oil world where tech and venture capitalsits save the day is a pipe dream. off to kunster's site for a dose of doom i go!

Would you please tell Mega the day he's been waiting for has done arrived...:rolleyes:

[AmericanBushi]

Re: FDR's Ghost to save USA!!!

Metalman said:
ok, now what were you saying about fdr? had a better plan for the usa than these guys had for their countries, no?

Metalman,
I'd LIKE to think that none of those men could have achieved their "solutions" here. I'd LIKE to think that as a people that America wouldn't have allowed themselves to be led in that direction. After all, while our economy was a total trainwreck I don't know that we were as ready as those nations to accept a demagogue. But, I am unabashadly optomistic, so maybe my answer is as much biased by that as it is reality!

[metalman]

Re: FDR's Ghost to save USA!!!

Metalman said:
ok, now what were you saying about fdr? had a better plan for the usa than these guys had for their countries, no?

Metalman,
I'd LIKE to think that none of those men could have achieved their "solutions" here. I'd LIKE to think that as a people that America wouldn't have allowed themselves to be led in that direction. After all, while our economy was a total trainwreck I don't know that we were as ready as those nations to accept a demagogue. But, I am unabashadly optomistic, so maybe my answer is as much biased by that as it is reality!

you're kidding, right? this country will jump at a demagogue faster than you can say james m. curley, theodore bilbo, william hale thompson, william murray, frank hague, james ferguson, eugene talmadge, vito marcantonio, huey long, and joe maccarthy. we got lucky with fdr. could have been muuuuch worse.

today keep an eye on demagogues lou dobbs, bill o'reilly, etc., etc.

[nitroglycol]

Re: FDR's Ghost to save USA!!!

you're kidding, right? this country will jump at a demagogue faster than you can say james m. curley, theodore bilbo, william hale thompson, william murray, frank hague, james ferguson, eugene talmadge, vito marcantonio, huey long, and joe maccarthy. we got lucky with fdr. could have been muuuuch worse.

today keep an eye on demagogues lou dobbs, bill o'reilly, etc., etc.

Interesting. I have to admit that the only two on the list of past demagogues who I'd actually heard of were Long and McCarthy, but others have commented on that. Chomsky, for instance, remarked some 10 years back that the US had been in a state he called "pre-fascist" for years, and that "we've been very lucky that every leader who's come along has been a crook".

[tree]

Re: FDR's Ghost to save USA!!!

EJ for demagogue. (It can't hurt that we have an in with him!)

[Thailandnotes]

Re: FDR's Ghost to save USA!!!

I recommend Howard Zinn's People's History of the United States: 1492 to Present. He shines a flood light on all the comments above. At Amazon,the first customer review out 614 currently posted begins: "Even people who hate Howard Zinn admit that he's a good scholar."

[lakedaemonian]

Re: FDR's Ghost to save USA!!!

I'm not a fan of this site, but I was interested to see this article:

http://www.slate.com/id/2187039/

Excerpt:

In the 1930s, Franklin Delano Roosevelt saved American capitalism from its own self-inflicted wounds by erecting a new financial infrastructure—often over the vociferous opposition of the bankers and investors whose poor judgment had helped precipitate the Great Depression. During the New Deal, the government reacted to a disastrous systemic failure by creating the sort of backstops, insurance, and risk-spreading mechanisms the market had failed to develop on its own, such as deposit insurance, federal securities registration, and federally sponsored entities that would insure mortgages.

I'd like to read what the general concensus on this is (I bolded the part that made me vomit a little ;))....

Aren't "risk spreading mechanisms" such as eleventeen zillion dollars worth of derivatives the very conduit by which the entire house of petrol doused cards could potentially erupt in flames?

Around here I'm a mere speculating amateur trying to learn...but this article seems like a pile of poo

[World Traveler]

Re: FDR's Ghost to save USA!!!

No pile of poo. Article makes a good point most. Have we had any runs on the banks yet, like in the 1930's, even though the news is out there in the mainstream press that some of the big banks are in deep trouble? No. Because depositors now have faith they will get their savings back, due to FDIC deposit (government-run fund) inititated by FDR.

The "Free Market" economists and Wall Street folks want the government to be "hands-off" when they are making money.

And they want a "hand-out" from the government when they are facing significant losses or even ruin...then they become "welfare queens". Bear Sterns toxic debt gets underwritten by taxpayers before JP Morgan will do the deal, the new Fed facilities to liquify the toxic debt Wall Street is holding is another example. etc. etc.

[BiscayneSunrise]

Re: FDR's Ghost to save USA!!!

No pile of poo. Article makes a good point most. Have we had any runs on the banks yet, like in the 1930's, even though the news is out there in the mainstream press that some of the big banks are in deep trouble? No. Because depositors now have faith they will get their savings back, due to FDIC deposit (government-run fund) inititated by FDR.

The "Free Market" economists and Wall Street folks want the government to be "hands-off" when they are making money.

And they want a "hand-out" from the government when they are facing significant losses or even ruin...then they become "welfare queens". Bear Sterns toxic debt gets underwritten by taxpayers before JP Morgan will do the deal, the new Fed facilities to liquify the toxic debt Wall Street is holding is another example. etc. etc.

Free marketeers are that in name only. Republicans in the US like to say the "we don't like to pick winners, we want to let the market decide" That is laughable. If that were the case, the US tax code and various bills passing through Congress wouldn't be so filled with exemptions, subsidies, etc. Republicans saying we don't pick winners is just code for we won't subsidize people we don't like.

As for Bear Stearns, word has it that without Fed intervention, a Bear failure would have begun a domino effect that could have taken down the whole system. Things were that fragile. Which takes me to my final point: Despite Republican rhetoric about small government and no subsidizing of industries, a large global super power can't be effectively run without a comprehensive and strategic industrial policy.

[AmericanBushi]

Re: FDR's Ghost to save USA!!!

I agree with BiscayneSunrise's position that some controls are necessary, but in a nation where 60%+ of the population receives some type of governmental assistance where is the line drawn? How do we maintain a sustainable system?

[jtabeb]

Re: FDR's Ghost to save USA!!!

I agree with BiscayneSunrise's position that some controls are necessary, but in a nation where 60%+ of the population receives some type of governmental assistance where is the line drawn? How do we maintain a sustainable system?

Total $ amount of GAAP budget deficit = $60,000,000,000,000

If you took that many dollars and stretched them end to end, one after another and started at the sun, you would go past Pluto (formerly known as the last planet in the solar system) before you would run out.

You can't maintain a sustainable system with what we have right now, THAT's the whole problem. WHAT WE GOT IS NOT SUSTAINABLE. (Unless you start passing out $1,000,000 denominated bills like candy to everyone, and then you have a whole different set of problems)

My solution is very simple, fixes everything, and is easy to do:

You do EXACTLY what Ron Paul says and remove all taxes on Gold and let it circulate as a currency competitor to the dollar. People can choose which one they want to use and for what purpose. The reason this works is because a rational person would choose to save gold and use paper dollars to pay off their debts. Basically, this allows all of the debt deflation we want via inflation while still maintaining a functioning (and dare I say, desired) medium of fiduciary exchange. I would also choose to pay my taxes in paper dollars BTW

So my vote is to Save the country via Inflation induced debt deflation while simultaneously re-monetizing gold and silver, platinum too. everyone wins, including savers. Debt holders are the only exception, which is exactly why it won't happen.

The alternatives all have the same result anyway, so fuck, let's just make it policy and get it all done and put behind us. Much faster, and much less pain, and gives very one a fair shot at trying to save their own bacon. Much better than this make-believe shit that they are trying to do now, and fairer to boot.

[nathanhulick]

Re: FDR's Ghost to save USA!!!

As for Bear Stearns, word has it that without Fed intervention, a Bear failure would have begun a domino effect that could have taken down the whole system.

Of course thats what they said, how else were they going to justify bailing out the bankers and letting the population of the US get the shaft?


...The Gods of the Copybook Headings with terror and slaughter return!

[metalman]

Re: FDR's Ghost to save USA!!!

Of course thats what they said, how else were they going to justify bailing out the bankers and letting the population of the US get the shaft?


...The Gods of the Copybook Headings with terror and slaughter return!

bingo. in fact we ought to be trading this. the day or two after a scary article came out, out came the bailout. political cover story -> bailout... political cover story -> bailout... political cover story -> bailout

tradeable?